Mechanical vs Fixed - different perspective

[Beendare]

I think that could be what appeared to be covered in that video, but I'd say that only about 10% of that video was actually about mechanicals versus fixed and distance shooting. I think if you look at Tim's motivation it's mostly about 1-hole accuracy and consistency with his setup........regardless of distance.

Ok, No doubt you are right as I haven't seen the vid/podcast- whatever it is. I'm going to have to check it out. I've seen snippets of other vids by Tim....and know of his shooting prowess. The guy IS the real deal....and to get to where he is you need to have incredible knowledge of arrow setup, tuning etc-...can't deny that.

 

[Yotekiller]

I will be using killzones this year and it has nothing to do with having a poorly tuned bow. I have plenty of momentum in my arrow to get the kind of penetration I want and would rather have the larger cutting diameter with the added forgiveness of form I get with a high foc and mechanical. They just seem to correct themselves quicker in flight and not plane off as bad when I do make a mistake. This is the first time I have experimented with the higher foc/mechanical combo and it has really amazed me how much better these bare shafts are flying than anything I have tried in the past. I trust the blades will always deploy and are strong enough to do there job with this head. Those are 2 issues I have had with a few other mechanical designs.

 

[5MilesBack]

I trust the blades will always deploy and are strong enough to do there job with this head. Those are 2 issues I have had with a few other mechanical designs.

I don't trust anything out there until I've tested it for myself. There is a lot of junk out there that I see get high praises from folks in all areas of equipment. Maybe I'm just harder on stuff or have higher expectations, but I see it a lot.

I actually called NAP yesterday to see what the difference was in their Killzone Crossbow heads and regular heads. I was hoping the crossbow heads had thicker blades, but they supposedly just have a stronger spring system to keep them from deploying early with faster crossbow speeds. I'm willing to give these a try, even though the Spitfire and the GR Fatal Steel have worked tremendously well.

I've moved more into the camp of "better blood" on the ground and/or quicker kills than even better flight these days with the mechanicals. This subject was touched on in the video as well. I've had elk run 100 yards before I even found a drop of blood on the ground with fixed heads. I've also found blood where they stood at the hit, and then nothing for several yards as well. 100 yards in thick timber is a LONG ways without a blood trail, and a huge grid search to tackle. Been there.......done that. It was nice this year not even needing a blood trail. Walked to the spot he was standing at, marked it.......found my arrow, looked up and there he was laying there.

And here's another advantage to a quick kill and recovery: Skinning one out 5 minutes after they've dropped is so easy, a 5 yo could do it. When they're warm and fresh, the hide pulls right away from the carcass.

 

[Beendare]

I've moved more into the camp of "better blood" on the ground and/or quicker kills than even better flight these days with the mechanicals. This subject was touched on in the video as well. I've had elk run 100 yards before I even found a drop of blood on the ground with fixed heads. I've also found blood where they stood at the hit, and then nothing for several yards as well. 100 yards in thick timber is a LONG ways without a blood trail, and a huge grid search to tackle. Been there.......done that. .

Yeah, i've been there too. What you are saying is counter to my experience with mech heads. I've had many animals not know they have been shot with a tapered fixed COC head design...heres one that came in below me on a steep sidehill....satellite bull, shot at about 12-15yd while coming to the call. I shot and he literally didn't take a step...just stood there looking around. The head was either a magnus snuffer ss...or Helrazor...at that time I was shooting both to the same POA. Oh and this shot was through both scapulas [downhill angle]

After appx 8-10 seconds he gave a bit of a death lunge and died appx 10' from the spot where I shot him.


I've never had that happen in the 5 or so years I shot piles of hogs, appx 5 elk and many other animal with mech heads. NEVER. They always took off like their tail was on fire....they KNEW they had been hit!

Its one of the reasons I don't shoot mechs anymore.

 

[5MilesBack]

They always took off like their tail was on fire....they KNEW they had been hit!

There's only been two "big game" animals I've shot in my lifetime that haven't taken off like a bat out of hell after they were hit......and both of those were with a rifle. One dropped in its tracks, his chin was the first thing to hit the ground. And the other was a cow that just stood there for a few seconds as if nothing had happened. Then she stepped to her right and walked up and over the ridgeline and disappeared. I found her ~400 yards later slumped over a blowdown with a hole through each side of her and no heart inside......just soup.

But every animal I've shot with a BH, fixed or mechanical has run like crazy. But the mechanical hits were all down much more quickly and in just a few seconds.

 

[elkguide]

I shot a whitetail doe at 22 yards that was eating apples.
At the shot she pulled her head up, looked around, ate another apple and then just laid down and her head dropped.

 

[Brendan]

I personally would never use a killzone on an Elk - here's why. Sent one through a whitetail into the dirt. Recovered it and the center slot that holds the blade had bent - rendering the broadhead no good (Did its job first, though). Pretty sure I saw another one that bent at a 90 degree angle after hitting something on a thread somewhere as another example. Something about that slot through the middle or the materials - I don't think they're strong enough. For mechanicals - I like the design of grim reaper fatal steel, nap spitfire, and rage hypodermic +p better.

 

[Brendan]

Regarding an animal taking off - I'm wondering if that's more the noise from your bow and then your arrow in flight.

 

[5MilesBack]

Regarding an animal taking off - I'm wondering if that's more the noise from your bow and then your arrow in flight.

Two years ago I had a 340ish bull broadside at 47 yards. There was a blow down between me and him but all I saw was the large opening to his vitals. I nocked an arrow and drew back, settled my 50 yard pin, and released. There was a dead branch that came off the blow down and curled back over it directly above where I was aiming. Of course it just happened to be directly in line with my arrow trajectory. That BH hit that dead branch and it sounded like a .22LR went off in the timber. Broke the entire branch completely off. That bull didn't even flinch......just stood there. I nocked another arrow and started drawing back and the guy I was with bugled about 200 yards away and the bull took two steps forward and I never got another shot. But he didn't even flinch. Surprised the heck out of me.

 

[DEW0341]

Out Shooting today, my buddies grim reaper hybrid broke one of the mechanical blades going into a rinehardt block type target at 30yds..... just some food for thought


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[camping1601]

The new Rage Trypan may appeal to some for an alternative to the Killzone.

Well maybe not the price.

 

[wapitibob]

But the mechanical hits were all down much more quickly and in just a few seconds.

Yep. Spitfire 125. The difference was obvious for me.

 

[Brendan]

Two years ago I had a 340ish bull broadside at 47 yards. There was a blow down between me and him but all I saw was the large opening to his vitals. I nocked an arrow and drew back, settled my 50 yard pin, and released. There was a dead branch that came off the blow down and curled back over it directly above where I was aiming. Of course it just happened to be directly in line with my arrow trajectory. That BH hit that dead branch and it sounded like a .22LR went off in the timber. Broke the entire branch completely off. That bull didn't even flinch......just stood there. I nocked another arrow and started drawing back and the guy I was with bugled about 200 yards away and the bull took two steps forward and I never got another shot. But he didn't even flinch. Surprised the heck out of me.

I've heard similar things - and even had deer hold tight when a rifle goes off, I personally think there's two things happening.

First, as with a rifle, it's too loud to pinpoint a direction, so they alert, but don't run.

Second - with a branch like that, maybe it sounded like a branch cracking or falling from a tree, or a more natural sound that for whatever reason didn't sound out of place in the woods (With Elk - they spar and rake so much, who knows). I've had whitetails completely ignore a falling branch, the noise of a squirrel, but then lock right onto you at the slightest metallic creak from a stand, and I've heard people say that arrows downrange can be a lot louder than you'd expect dependent on what vanes and broadhead you're using. I remember shooting one vented fixed blade that I could hear whistle all the way to the target...

 

[bwlacy]

I've had a lot of whitetails not react at the shot. I've only ever used fixed blades. The first time I had it happen I thought somehow I missed. I knew that I didn't but was confused why he didn't run. I've had a lot of people tell me that all the deer they have shot with a mechanical run like crazy. I can't comment on elk since I haven't shot one yet.

 

[5MilesBack]

Out Shooting today, my buddies grim reaper hybrid broke one of the mechanical blades going into a rinehardt block type target at 30yds..... just some food for thought

Ya, that dense foam puts a lot of torque on narrow blades. Every single Ramcat BH that I've shot into my Rinehart targets have come out with broken blades. The blade channels on those GR and Spitfire type heads fill up with foam as well. Really need to clean those out after every shot.

 

[Violent Hippie]

I listened to the podcast and respect the opinion of those guys. I admit that I'm a "If it aint broke domt fix it " type of guy and am happy with the VPA and Magnus Stinger heads I've been using to make 1 shot kills while hunting the local Sierra range blacktail. I have not had a reason to experiment with mech heads yet as I dont shoot much past 50 meters with broadheads during practice and closer to 30 meters while hunting and in my experience the mentioned heads I use are pretty spot on with field tips. I've never shot an arrow at an animal in high winds and don't think I would anyway at this point so thats not a factor for me either.

 

[DEW0341]

Ya, that dense foam puts a lot of torque on narrow blades. Every single Ramcat BH that I've shot into my Rinehart targets have come out with broken blades. The blade channels on those GR and Spitfire type heads fill up with foam as well. Really need to clean those out after every shot.

Dense foam puts torque on the narrow blades, what will hitting bone do. I'm personally in search of a good 2 blade broadhead, without breaking the bank on 3 heads, leads me to the DRT heads primarily


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[Backpack Hunter]

Bone reacts much differently than foam, probably one of the reasons you don't get pass thru's on targets.
As to two blades have you checked out VPA?

Esse quam videri

 

[DEW0341]

I'm selling some gravedigger hybrid chisel tips 100 gr brand new in the pack PM Me if interested



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[Sickforit]

Shot a lot of stuff over the years. Really all about those RamCats right now