Help me build an elk arrow for my wife

[Broken Compass]

As I've mentioned in a few other threads, my wife drew an elk tag in utah. She is currently shooting a Hoyt charger at 40 lbs with a DL of 24.5. I will continue to increase her draw weight as she builds up strength over the summer. Her bow will likely max at 50-52 lbs if she can get there comfortably. Her arrows are 500 spine, standard diameter gold tips with 85 gn. Montec broadheads which she has successfully taken a mule deer with at close range. I'm just not sure this arrow setup is going to be sufficient for elk. I believe 500's will still be stiff enough even with a draw weight increase and Broadhead/insert weight increase just because the arrows are so short. I just don't know how much (arrow) weight would be ideal before creating huge pin gaps (very little margin for error). Wondering what everyones thoughts are? Thanks in advance for advice.


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[Ridge Ghost]

I would look for a finished arrow weighing a least 400 gr, and maybe a little heavier. Yes, trajectory and pin gaps will change but you want the arrow to penetrate when it gets to the target.

I would also lean towards a two-blade broadhead to help with penetration.

 

[larryschwartz]

Broken Compass,

A few points that I think are important here.

First, don't try to make the 500's work if, as she goes up in draw weight, you see that she needs a stiffer arrow.

Second, if someone told you that your arrow needed to be no more than some arbitrary number of inches past the riser or more than her draw length they are giving you bad information. Your arrow can be any length that works for you. What is important is arrow flight. Also, longer arrows tend to stop oscillating sooner, which is a good thing.

Third, with a large and tough skinned animal like an elk momentum is vital if you are going to get the penetration you need to make sure you get both lungs. For that reason you will likely want to go up in mass weight on her arrows. A thicker walled arrow will help add mass as will going with a longer arrow. Thicker walls will make it stiffer for a given length, but adding length will make it relatively less stiff/weaker so it can balance out. I am a traditional bowhunter, and I try to get 9-10 grains per pound of draw weight for my arrow/broadhead combination. Others here can tell you if that is a good ratio for elk or if you need to go up. With that amount of grains you should not have problems getting good penetration.

Fourth, a heavier mass arrow will do a few good things for her. One, it will help to quiet her bow and minimize hand shock if there is any. Two, with more mass the arrow will absorb more of the energy from the bow which gives you more energy down range and also less noise where you are. And, three, with more mass the arrow will loose/bleed energy slower as it goes down range so there is more left for penetration.

Hope this helps and congratulate her on the tag!

Larry

 

[UtahJimmy]

I would look for a finished arrow weighing a least 400 gr, and maybe a little heavier. Yes, trajectory and pin gaps will change but you want the arrow to penetrate when it gets to the target.

I would also lean towards a two-blade broadhead to help with penetration.

Ghost nailed it, 2-blade for sure!

With regards to pin gap; if they grow too much, change their values. Use 5 yard gaps instead of 10.

 

[Broken Compass]

Thanks for the replies. I was mostly talking about the small margin of error when I mentioned pin gap. (She shoots a single pin currently). Meaning no room for error on yardage and executing a perfect shot every time. With such a slow moving arrow. Which I know is what we all strive for anyway but doesn't always happen. It seems to be an extremely fine line for light setups.
As far as arrow weight, she is currently very stiff according to archers advantage program and I will continue to check it every time we make a change. I have no problem getting stiffer arrows if we ever cross that line (and likely move to smaller diameter if I am going to change arrows) but it seems like I have a bit of cushion before that happens. So my thought was to increase arrow weight by going to 100 or 125 gn. Broadhead's and then add some brass weights to the back of the insert until I got into that optimal spine on the program. Just not sure I'm going about this correctly


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[SquidHC]

Damn. 40 lbs?! In Oregon it's a 50 lb legal minimum for elk. I just assumed all states were the same.

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[Broken Compass]

Damn. 40 lbs?! In Oregon it's a 50 lb legal minimum for elk. I just assumed all states were the same.

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She is currently shooting 40 lbs. I'm hoping it'll be 50 or more by August.

Utahs draw weight minimum is 40lbs for all big game ( along with arrow weight and Broadhead size regs)

Thanks for your concern.


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[mathews8pt]

My wife has shot through many whitetail deer with a 340 grain arrow out of her bow at 26" draw and mid 40s for DW. She shoots axis 500s with 100 grain slick tricks. Personally if she was going to elk hunt id set her up with closer to a 400 gr arrow and get her to shoot as much DW as she was comfortable with. I think at 50 lbs and a 350+ grain arrow she will be fine if she can put it where it counts.

 

[Beendare]

There is a good reason why the trad guys use heavy arrows and super efficient BH's for their low energy setups; it works.

i've blown through some decent size critters with a 45# stickbow and a 500-600 gr arrow and tapered coc 2 and 3 blade BH. Heck she is going to be shooting close shots...trajectory is almost not even a factor.

 

[Broken Compass]

I guess you're right about trajectory. I hadn't thought about a 2 blade Broadhead because Ive never really seen anyone use them but I think that is going to be the best option for her. Currently looking at the iron will's


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[Jacob Chapman]

I'm tuned into this one, I'm trying to talk my wife into shooting her bow more (I'm looking for a nicer bow for her than her Mission Craze btw if anyone knows of a reasonably priced option)

I am going to want to maximize her penetration potential....heavier arrows, smaller diameter with a good FOC and excellent flight. Magnus Stinger 150 gr heads are a good option, either the 2 or 4 blade, RMSG Cutthroat, VPA 2 blade, those IronWill's are going to be for me haha. Too expensive in case she loses one!

 

[Ridge Ghost]

I'm tuned into this one, I'm trying to talk my wife into shooting her bow more (I'm looking for a nicer bow for her than her Mission Craze btw if anyone knows of a reasonably priced option)

I am going to want to maximize her penetration potential....heavier arrows, smaller diameter with a good FOC and excellent flight. Magnus Stinger 150 gr heads are a good option, either the 2 or 4 blade, RMSG Cutthroat, VPA 2 blade, those IronWill's are going to be for me haha. Too expensive in case she loses one!

Heck, you can even go with a 2 blade Zwickey to save on money. Her speed should be modest enough that I bet it would tune ok.

 

[Ridge Ghost]

Thanks for the replies. I was mostly talking about the small margin of error when I mentioned pin gap. (She shoots a single pin currently). Meaning no room for error on yardage and executing a perfect shot every time. With such a slow moving arrow. Which I know is what we all strive for anyway but doesn't always happen. It seems to be an extremely fine line for light setups.
As far as arrow weight, she is currently very stiff according to archers advantage program and I will continue to check it every time we make a change. I have no problem getting stiffer arrows if we ever cross that line (and likely move to smaller diameter if I am going to change arrows) but it seems like I have a bit of cushion before that happens. So my thought was to increase arrow weight by going to 100 or 125 gn. Broadhead's and then add some brass weights to the back of the insert until I got into that optimal spine on the program. Just not sure I'm going about this correctly
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I have seen quite a few setups where the arrow is too stiff according to the charts but will still tune and fly well with a broadhead. With a mechanical release and a d-loop, it seems you can often get away with being overspined. Under-spined, no way, but there's a good chance her arrow will still shoot well being overspined.

Hopefully some of the more experienced bow techs can chime in on this one and shed some light.

 

[Jacob Chapman]

Heck, you can even go with a 2 blade Zwickey to save on money. Her speed should be modest enough that I bet it would tune ok.

I do have some Delta and Eskimo's that should work, that bow will be going slow enough they should fly well!

 

[doverpack12]

If I were going to make a change it would be to 400 spine arrows. I currently have my wife set up for her first year with a bow using gold tip 400 spine with wac em 3 blade broadheads. I would look more at your arrow grains per pound of the setup than overall arrow weight. Overall arrow weight is essentially meaningless in the sense most of us traditionally talk about it in referance to 60-70+ pound setups. I just threw some quick numbers at my wife's setup and she is around 8 plus grains per pound or draw weight at 40 pound draw which is plenty and she will be closer to or at 50 by the season as well. I started her really low so she could shoot and get comfortable with form basically without much effort to draw and hold. At 50 pound draw she will still be almost 7 grains of arrow weight per pound of draw weight. Chuck Adams is big on grains of arrow per pound of draw weight. I can tell you those 2 numbers beat out my heavy arrow setups (500 grain 80# and 450 grain 70#).

If she is anywhere in the 340 grain finished arrow weight range I would not push it or change it much because the larger trajectory will not be worth it. I would rather have a pin point accurate arrow than a little heavier arrow that misses point of aim 4-6" due to trajectory and on a lower poundage bow that is not a lot of distance that will cause that.

 

[LostArra]

Damn. 40 lbs?! In Oregon it's a 50 lb legal minimum for elk. I just assumed all states were the same.

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35# in Colorado
Stoner elk have thin skins


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