Canted Cam Tuning- Binary

[OG DramaLlama]

Have an Athens Testament. Just started to get learning to tune it myself. Looking at the cams the appear to be off. Some preliminary research looks like bows with yokes allow for adjustments, but really can't find anything else. Here are some pics.

Thanks in advance.

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[doverpack12]

If your cable rod had an end in it (not sure if Athens do or not ) you can turn that to make it closer or further from the arrow which will change the pre tension sideways on the cams. How does the bow shoot now? If it's shooting and your grip is consistent don't touch it. If you turn the cable slide you will also probably need a small rest adjustment. If it turns I would bring it toward the arrow very slightly.

 

[OG DramaLlama]

If your cable rod had an end in it (not sure if Athens do or not ) you can turn that to make it closer or further from the arrow which will change the pre tension sideways on the cams. How does the bow shoot now? If it's shooting and your grip is consistent don't touch it. If you turn the cable slide you will also probably need a small rest adjustment. If it turns I would bring it toward the arrow very slightly.

Shooting bare shafts now. Arrows are consistently tailing to 10 0'clock.

With vanes it is corrected and all arrows enter target just fine.

I can see the arrow start tailing to the left when it leaves rest. At first, I though it was my center-shot. I don't have a fancy tool to measure this, but the eyeball test looks pretty good.

My next step was to adjust the rest a small bit to o see if I can improve.

I also realize this could be my arrows. Feel like I am a little stiff right now.

Grip feels consistent, but could always be better.

Was planning on these adjustments prior to anything with the cams. Just curious what will and what can be done to correct if I can't find any other issues.

If I have to take to pro-shop to correct it may be best to just bite the bullet now vs tinkering. Season is coming quick.


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[Brendan]

Most important thing is arrow flight - not what the cams look like.

Being that you don't have yokes - you have a couple options. Move the rest and/or nocking point until you're getting good flight, adjust the cable rod (if possible), or shim the cam(s). Options #1/#2 are easiest - shimming the cams requires you to press the bow and remove the cams, measure existing shims, replace / adjust.

 

[WoodBow]

I am not familiar with your bow but I have an old bowtech 101st airborne which is a binary cam system. I disassembled it a few months ago to dip it in ASAT. I then reassembled it and had the bow shop string and tune it. They called me and said the tune was so far off that they were convinced it had a bad limb. The bowtech customer support said the same. The symptom was severe cam lean. So much so that the string or cables were trying to come off the cams. At their recommendation, I ordered new limbs. They installed and guess what? Same thing. Thanks for having me throw away $200! They spent 2 hours trying to tune it and sent it home with me with very obvious cam lean and a left tear. This is a very reputable shop. That was the last day I paid anyone to work on my bow. I took to the web and did all the research I could. I solved the problem with varied spacers between the cam and limb. You are essentially rearranging spacers of various thousandths variance to move the cam to a position so that the string is in line with the cams.

 

[theleo91386]

The bad and the good.

Bad: The best way to deal with your issue is to shim it. I requires a press, shims, time, and some patience.

Good: After you shim it you'll never have to go through the process of eliminating cam lean again unlike hybrid cam systems (yokes) that you have to play with each time you change strings and cables.

 

[tipsntails7]

That bow is currently at rest. Its mostly irrelevant what they look like at brace. Its about what they look like at full draw. There are thousands of binary bows out with crooked cams at rest. That bow has a traditional offset slide, so no matter what you do its going to have tension pulling away from center shot on the cams, its the nature of the bow.

Bare shafts are very difficult to tune off of, unless you shoot them all the time, I don't know what your skill level is, but if you can get fixed heads to fly with your FP's it could very easily be a number of things, grip, form, spine etc making your bare shafts wonky.

 

[5MilesBack]

I am not familiar with your bow but I have an old bowtech 101st airborne which is a binary cam system. I disassembled it a few months ago to dip it in ASAT. I then reassembled it and had the bow shop string and tune it. They called me and said the tune was so far off that they were convinced it had a bad limb. The bowtech customer support said the same. The symptom was severe cam lean. So much so that the string or cables were trying to come off the cams. At their recommendation, I ordered new limbs. They installed and guess what? Same thing. Thanks for having me throw away $200! They spent 2 hours trying to tune it and sent it home with me with very obvious cam lean and a left tear. This is a very reputable shop. That was the last day I paid anyone to work on my bow. I took to the web and did all the research I could. I solved the problem with varied spacers between the cam and limb. You are essentially rearranging spacers of various thousandths variance to move the cam to a position so that the string is in line with the cams.

I hear that. A few years ago I ordered a Strother Moxie with a military discount through Crackers (the master bow tuner on AT), where "Crackerized" came from. I sent him my Hamskea rest and three arrows to "crackerize" it and set it up with my rest and arrows. When I got it, it had very little valley, very little letoff, felt like an 80lb draw bow, and at full draw I'm not even sure how the string stayed on the cams because of the top cam lean. It was so bad, ANY torque at all would have derailed that bow. I have no idea how it didn't derail on the shot. It was horrible.

I immediately sold the bow as I certainly didn't want to deal with it. The funny thing was, at 29" draw there was hardly any cam lean, it was easy to draw, and the let-off and valley were fine. But at my 32.5" draw........it was an entirely different bow.

 

[OG DramaLlama]

That bow is currently at rest. Its mostly irrelevant what they look like at brace. Its about what they look like at full draw. There are thousands of binary bows out with crooked cams at rest. That bow has a traditional offset slide, so no matter what you do its going to have tension pulling away from center shot on the cams, its the nature of the bow.

Bare shafts are very difficult to tune off of, unless you shoot them all the time, I don't know what your skill level is, but if you can get fixed heads to fly with your FP's it could very easily be a number of things, grip, form, spine etc making your bare shafts wonky.

Here is a pic of my normal 5 shot sequence with my bare shafts. Only have 8 yards to work with in my garage.

Tried to put in the level to show a little of where my bare shafts land. Essentially I hang a piece of dental floss off the target.

Admittedly, I not a great shot. Constantly working on my form and shot sequence to get better. But to see 95% of my bare shafts like this I figure something is up.

Here is with fletched arrows.

Not sure if the perspective of these pics do any help. But the tilt is much better.

Looking at the slide I see exactly what you mean. Those cams will always be off at rest. Thanks for that point, I didn't put that together.

Back to the drawing board to see what is causing me to do this.


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[kicker338]

Wasn't going to comment on this thread but there is a few things that need some attention. First, 8yds. is nowhere enough distance to bairshaft tune, way too close to really see what your shaft is doing. One way or another you need to find a place where you can get out to 15 to 20yds. You need that distance to get a good view of whats going on with your shaft. Also a little kick, 1 to 1.5" wont make any difference with broadhead flight unless your using a big fixed broadhead. 2nd. finding center shot, no tools needed for this, knock an arrow with the rest raised if your using a drop away. Hold an arrow flat on the bottom of the shelf to see how it lines up with the knocked arrow. Adjust your rest to get the arrows parallel. Do the same for horizontal. If you don't have a draw board, make one, very simple to do. Check your cam timing as if this is off it will affect vertical flight.

 

[kicker338]

5miles you need to make an appointment with a doc. and get those terx arms shortened to 29 to 30" it will make bow tuning a whole lot easier. LOL. Seriously the problem that long draw or short draw shooters is most all manufactures make their bows to tune best in the 28 to 30" draw range. Long draw shooters get hurt the most because their's not a lot of you guys out there. Short draw guys are in a lot better shape, more of them.

 

[OG DramaLlama]

Wasn't going to comment on this thread but there is a few things that need some attention. First, 8yds. is nowhere enough distance to bairshaft tune, way too close to really see what your shaft is doing. One way or another you need to find a place where you can get out to 15 to 20yds. You need that distance to get a good view of whats going on with your shaft. Also a little kick, 1 to 1.5" wont make any difference with broadhead flight unless your using a big fixed broadhead. 2nd. finding center shot, no tools needed for this, knock an arrow with the rest raised if your using a drop away. Hold an arrow flat on the bottom of the shelf to see how it lines up with the knocked arrow. Adjust your rest to get the arrows parallel. Do the same for horizontal. If you don't have a draw board, make one, very simple to do. Check your cam timing as if this is off it will affect vertical flight.

Agreed on the yardage. I practice my shot sequence daily in the garage at 8 yards so I can narrow down some of the variables.

Just started shooting the bare shafts so started point blank and have been moving out slowly. I had no idea what to expect. Hoping to push it to 15 yards next time I head out of city limits as my HOA might get a little upset if they see me flinging arrows across my driveway.

Will check center shot using above tonight.

Did build a drawboard and it was helpful and simple.

Thanks for the feedback.


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[OG DramaLlama]

Well....Really appreciate all the comments on my original post, but it looks like I misdiagnosed the problem.

However, this Helped me trouble shoot much better. I really missed the center shot.

Using two allen wrenches and some string I was able to establish a much better reference.

Much better results.

Now to the range to evaluate arrow flight. Hopefully this will improve.


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[5MilesBack]

5miles you need to make an appointment with a doc. and get those terx arms shortened to 29 to 30" it will make bow tuning a whole lot easier. LOL. Seriously the problem that long draw or short draw shooters is most all manufactures make their bows to tune best in the 28 to 30" draw range. Long draw shooters get hurt the most because their's not a lot of you guys out there. Short draw guys are in a lot better shape, more of them.

That's why I'm shooting the Freak now. It was engineered from the ground up for us LD guys. But my Old Glory and Commander tune up pretty easily as well.