Arrow weight and speed for elk

[HardcoreHunter]

So I weighed one of my hunting arrows last night. 395 grains is where I'm at currently. Not as light as I thought, but still not at all considered heavy. Still need to confirm my arrow speed on my chrono. From what people have said here, I think I'd like to at least get into the mid 400's. I'm thinking I could likely switch out my 100 grain Montecs for 125's and use some weighted inserts and be ok. My one questions is what is adding a bunch of weight up front going to do to my arrow flight? I'll admit that although I've been bowhunting much longer than any kind of hunting I do, compared to guns I know very little about the technical aspects of archery and how components and design features affect performance.

Adding weight to the front of an arrow will weaken the spine of the arrow. Depending on where you are at right now, will depend on whether or not you end up with an arrow with a weak spine. There is a fine balance. Adding weight up front will always increase the F.O.C. of the arrow, and in my experience, the higher the F.O.C., the more dart like arrows will fly. If you would like to know specifically their are programs to help build arrows. You could get one of those or ask someone to run your numbers.

 

[jmez]

So I weighed one of my hunting arrows last night. 395 grains is where I'm at currently. Not as light as I thought, but still not at all considered heavy. Still need to confirm my arrow speed on my chrono. From what people have said here, I think I'd like to at least get into the mid 400's. I'm thinking I could likely switch out my 100 grain Montecs for 125's and use some weighted inserts and be ok. My one questions is what is adding a bunch of weight up front going to do to my arrow flight? I'll admit that although I've been bowhunting much longer than any kind of hunting I do, compared to guns I know very little about the technical aspects of archery and how components and design features affect performance.

Best way to find out is to build a couple and shoot them. Find a place where you can buy individual shafts and components, then start experimenting.

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[Topo_trekker]

I'm at 450gn total, 125 exodus swept, black eagle rampage 15% foc. Any heavier and my pin gap started to get too big. A higher foc will carry your arrow through the animal, wind and brush better if it hits something. So will fixed blade if brush contact. Full pass through on bull elk at 68.5#.


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[Where's Bruce?]

So I weighed one of my hunting arrows last night. 395 grains is where I'm at currently. Not as light as I thought, but still not at all considered heavy. Still need to confirm my arrow speed on my chrono. From what people have said here, I think I'd like to at least get into the mid 400's. I'm thinking I could likely switch out my 100 grain Montecs for 125's and use some weighted inserts and be ok. My one questions is what is adding a bunch of weight up front going to do to my arrow flight? I'll admit that although I've been bowhunting much longer than any kind of hunting I do, compared to guns I know very little about the technical aspects of archery and how components and design features affect performance.

This is why I recommended downloading OT2...it'll tell ya right off.

 

[Kilboars]

The FMJ's are great but may be little heavy/slow IMO

I went to Black Eagle Rampages with 125g Broadhead to get my arrows to 484g which seems perfect for speed and hitting power.

I found over 500g the arrow just drops to much over 40-50 yards.

 

[roadrunner]

Yes, if adding weight up front, consider what the arrow spine is of what you are shooting. The spine being affected is dynamic spine, not static (which is what arrows are rated at).

 

[yoopshoot]

I prefer a heavy arrow for deer and bear, and am just planning on using the same arrow for elk in the future. Over the last few years my arrow weight has increased from 430, to 475, to 520, now currently 560. The devastation is noticeably better at the heavier weights and I plan to stay around 525-560 for all of my arrow builds. Combined with a long draw and heavy draw, this combination has been very lethal even when bone is contacted.


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[roadrunner]

I agree. If you have the means to push a heavy arrow with a decent amount of speed, go for it.

Push too heavy an arrow too slow and the end result may not be much different than a lighter faster arrow.

 

[keithlmart]

Dr Ed Ashby has completed full studies on arrow mechanics and penetration.
He even killed an elephant with a longbow.
You cannot go wrong following his already proven physics.

Broadhead Science and Dr Ed Ashby

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[Beendare]

I prefer getting advice from experienced guys....guys killing a lot of elk.

Every one of those guys I know shoots an arrow on the heavier side....450gr or more..... tells you something right there.

I've seen about 60 elk die from arrow poisoning....i shoot 500gr with a strong COC [600 in my recurve] and would go heavier before lighter

 

[Pramo]

I've killed elk with 395, 425 and few with 475 grain arrows. I try and stay somewhere between 450 and 500 looking for 275 to 280 fps. It's a good mix of power and speed

 

[roadrunner]

Right - math and physics proves it:

2 x 3 = 6 = 3 x 2.

Light fast arrow or heavy slower arrow can yield the same outcome.

It all boils down to what you have confidence in, based of course, on anecdotal evidence (personal experience).

 

[GotDraw?]

Not sure I agree that a slower, heavier arrow will have result like a lighter faster arrow, given that heavy arrows out of slow long bows have killed a lot of big animals.

Think of how little damage a ping pong ball at high speed does.

JL

I agree. If you have the means to push a heavy arrow with a decent amount of speed, go for it.

Push too heavy an arrow too slow and the end result may not be much different than a lighter faster arrow.

 

[sodaksooner]

You will be fine IMO. Not that it is worth much. I am at 450 grains or so in the mid 270's. Good arrow flight and tight groups. FMJ's with 100 grain Heads. FOC isn't ideal but they fly great.

 

[roadrunner]

Not sure I agree that a slower, heavier arrow will have result like a lighter faster arrow, given that heavy arrows out of slow long bows have killed a lot of big animals.

Think of how little damage a ping pong ball at high speed does.

JL

Simplified illustration: KE = 6. m = 3 and v^2 = 2. Now say KE = 6. m = 2 and v^2 = 3. Same can be said for momentum. Not every scenario works like this. However, beyond popular belief, there is an optimum for both weight and speed for any given setup. The range of weight and speed for that optimum performance curve will yield very similar results within a couple of vector and scaler points.

As far as a ping ball going really fast - blades of straw embedded into utility poles after a tornado or hurricane force winds.

Broadhead choice probably has more to do with a lot of it than anything else. Arrows do not kill by blunt force trauma or a hemorrhagic shockwave. They kill by fast, precise, incision like slices.

 

[gelton]

I run Black Eagle Spartans .300 with a 50 gr insert and 125 heads. Total arrow weight is 470 grains with an FOC of 15%...works for me.

 

[Beendare]

Right - math and physics proves it:

2 x 3 = 6 = 3 x 2.

Light fast arrow or heavy slower arrow can yield the same outcome.

It all boils down to what you have confidence in, based of course, on anecdotal evidence (personal experience).

^Ugh, no........Inertia and Momentum don't work that way.

Its a fact that the heavier arrow will absorb more of a bows energy...so the heavier arrow packs more energy right out of the gate.

^So as you go up in arrow weight....your arrow energy continues to rise all the way up to about 2,000gr or so.

This is the reason why a 560gr arrow doesn't penetrate the rib cage...where the 825gr arrow killed this Australian water buff- from the same bow


The difference is pretty amazing when you see it in real life....those heavy arrows just don't stop.

 

[roadrunner]

Beendare - consider what I wrote. There is a balance required to what I said. We're not comparing an 800 gr arrow to a 400 gr arrow. At least I'm not. The math itself says the results are similar, and they are, within the sphere it belongs.

You have confidence in a heavier arrow and that's fine. I have confidence in a lighter setup than yours, and that's fine as well because I know it works with what I'm hunting. But a guy doesn't need to go out and buy a whole new set of arrows just to get more penetration (hunting the same animals) when a simple insert, or tip weight change can give them what they need. A guy can be wasting his time by just going heavier without the machine behind it. A heavier arrow is not always the answer and cure-all for a penetration issue.

It's all just anecdotal anyway...

 

[Btaylor]

Another option to consider would be go up to the 125 head and put a nocturnal lighted nock on the back. Will add 45 grains to your arrow and should have virtually no impact on arrow flight from spine issues as opposed to adding all the weight to the front. Crap load cheaper to test too rather than buying new arrows.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Not sure I agree that a slower, heavier arrow will have result like a lighter faster arrow, given that heavy arrows out of slow long bows have killed a lot of big animals.

Think of how little damage a ping pong ball at high speed does.

JL

Two objects with different masses can have equal momentum with different velocities

Ping pong is the extreme. Where velocity would have to be higher then achievable.

End of the day Ashby proved we over think what’s needed to kill deer and elk in the US