Arrow weight and speed for elk

TauPhi111

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What's up roksliders? I'm wanting to start going after elk with my bow, and I'm wondering what the general consensus is regarding arrow weight and speed to get reliable penetration on elk out to 50-60 yards. Right now, I shoot an older Hoyt Ultrasport with the split ZR-100 limbs. Poundage is maxed out at 70, and with my draw length and arrows, I think I'm shooting somewhere around 265-275 FPS (I need to rechrono to be sure). I am not sure what my arrows weight (need to measure) but I'm shooting a 100 grain G5 Montec on a Carbon Express Mayhem shaft...probably not more than about 350 grains total. With this setup, I've got pass throughs on every white tail I've ever shot, but for elk I'm thinking about upping my arrow weight with 125 grain Montecs and Easton 4mm FMJ arrows. No Idea what my speed will be with those. Thoughts?
 
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Trial153

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Take speed out of the equation. Start and end your search with an arrow between 500-550 grains with stout fixed blade head, preferably COC and your good to go. No surprises, just boring reliable repeatable results.
 
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Shot placement dictates penetration
A well placed shot allows a 398 gr arrow at 82 yards on a cow elk, a 70 yard shot on a muley to pass thru.

Concerns pop up when the shot is off just a bit, and that is where heavier arrows will help to a degree. They can get into a lung, vitals or offer two side bleeding for tracking and recovery.

Not much of any arrow gonna blow thru a shoulder blade.

I would say what you have will work. Would there be better yes in scenarios where you are less than proficient.

At 50-70 yards with an elk aware you are there and on high alert, a faster speed would benefit a higher success rate. Not allows, but better odds they wont jump the string. Even more critical with white tail or desert mules and coues.

Lots involved.

Shoot and get proficient, nothing replaces a well placed shot.
 
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TauPhi111

TauPhi111

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Correction: After doing some looking, my current arrows are likely no where near 450 grains. Probably more like 350. I'll need to actually weigh one tonight when I'm home. Also corrected this in the OP
 
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If you up that weight with your current speed ( low end of 260 now) your shot choices at longer distances will drop. You will likely be at 240 if take too big of an arrow weight increase. You will be below optimal speed for what you described in certain scenarios. Not a game changer, you just need to get in closer- trad guys do it all the time. Or you need to take shots where elk are not on high alert.

I know some guys shooting in low 260's fps and still killing elk. But their choices are more limited than those shooting 275-300.
I know trad guys shooting WAY lower and still kill elk- they just get closer.
 
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My Axis arrows weigh 440 (moving at 250fps) blew thru this moose using Exodus heads. I would try to add 100grs if I were you. Use OT2 when building your arrows and you're golden. Pinwheel Software - Software For Archers, Tapes And Charts, Shaft Selector

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A 395 gr arrow traveling at 295 fps will pass through a 6x6 bull at 27 yds.

A 440 gr arrow traveling at 280 fps will pass through a 6x6 at 43 yds.

A 405 gr arrow traveling at 305 fps will pass through an avg size bull at 32 yds.


All three scenarios above used a 50 gr brass insert and either a 100 gr Slick Trick, Montec, or Wac'em broadhead.
 
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Nice moose Bruce

Thanks. My bison arrow was 777gr FMJ 250s with Woodsman Elite broadheads, sliced through this bull like a hot knife thru warm butter. My bow was never more quiet. Better to be too heavy than too light IMHO.

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Always assume your arrow is gonna hit bone and make sure that isn't a problem.
 
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For what its worth if anything- I had that one experience where my lighter 398 arrow let me down. We cant always make the ideal shot. I was spoiled taking several animals (Elk and deer) consistently out as much as 82 yards with my light weight speed set ups. I was the poster boy for speed. My stuff was chronoing at 342 fps.
Then it happened. Biggest buck of my life rushed shot, low light high and forward enough to get into an area my arrow couldn't handle.

I immediately came home went from 398 gr up to 482 grain set ups.
I am from the school of both penetration ability and carrying as much speed as possible while making KE as the priority.
I can run my almost 500 gr arrows at 305 fps still. This gives me comfort taking shots I watch others pass on, and rightfully so, they just don't have equipment to take all the shots.

Lots of varying opinions and until you are in a situation the other guy with the other opinion has, you will be fine with where you're at.
It's experience that causes us to change- not general public opinion
 
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Thanks. My bison arrow was 777gr FMJ 250s with Woodsman Elite broadheads, sliced through this bull like a hot knife thru warm butter. My bow was never more quiet. Better to be too heavy than too light IMHO.

988811_10202595238103246_1446865760_n.jpg

agreed. 777 - same bow ? what was your speed? Probably throw a spear as fast lol
I also predict your shot placement was spot on to do that
 
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You will get answers all over the board on a question like this but i feel like the average of them all is usually a safe bet.

I felt comfortable with a 440 gr arrow out of my bow and it proved to work fine. If you plan to shoot past 50 and your bow is on the slower side it just means you need to be more careful when ranging and aiming since a few yards off could mean a non lethal hit. Again, i kind of went with the average of the speed range and ended up around 280 fps with that arrow weight which made longer shots not quite as tough.

I would pick the heavier arrow and possibly shorten effective range, over shooting a light arrow.
 
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Not many arrows will crunch through the upper leg bone (humerus) and keep going for a pass through.

You hit a nice bull (elk) with a 450 gr arrow at 40 yds in that leg bone, you will watch him run off with all but a few inches of arrow sticking out.

There are points on a plotted mass vs speed curve that yield the same results. Mass ain't everything and neither is speed. The two combined differently will give the results you want.

KE only means the work done by the bow to get the arrow moving, the arrow speed being the result.
 
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agreed. 777 - same bow ? what was your speed? Probably throw a spear as fast lol
I also predict your shot placement was spot on to do that

No, bison was taken with a Hoyt CE and 70lb DW. Moose was shot with an Elite Energy at 65lbs. I'm getting older, the difference in draw cycles and ability to hold full draw is night and day. Placement is everything. Hit the vitals, they drop in sight more often than not. Both these bulls traveled less than 50 yards before crashing.
 

Jon Boy

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I like an arrow over 400 grains personally. I've ran a 425 grain arrow for as long as I can remember with speeds from 250- 280. Ive had very good luck with recoceries. Had a number of pass throughs on 6 points from 42-60 yards. I used to rack my brain with weight, speed, kinetic energy, momentum, FOC etc etc. But after getting a pass through on a p&y 6 point at 42 yards with a very slow bow and moderate arrow weight, I quit over thinking it.

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TauPhi111

TauPhi111

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So I weighed one of my hunting arrows last night. 395 grains is where I'm at currently. Not as light as I thought, but still not at all considered heavy. Still need to confirm my arrow speed on my chrono. From what people have said here, I think I'd like to at least get into the mid 400's. I'm thinking I could likely switch out my 100 grain Montecs for 125's and use some weighted inserts and be ok. My one questions is what is adding a bunch of weight up front going to do to my arrow flight? I'll admit that although I've been bowhunting much longer than any kind of hunting I do, compared to guns I know very little about the technical aspects of archery and how components and design features affect performance.
 
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