Hinge or Back Tension

[mfllood3800]

I am using a Carter Honey hinge. I like it. My issue is I cannot use it properly, meaning how you are technically suppose to position it in my hand. I had an accident where one of my fingers was cut off, and reattached, but no knuckle, just tendon to keep it there. Then the other fingers by it were so severely damaged, they don't bend as required for the release hand on a hinge type.
I will get a pick up after putting this initial post up.

I am plenty accurate with my index release. I can even use my carter hinge. But I was contemplating using a back tension type. But am I wasting $$ if I cant hold it correctly? My accuracy with the carter is not as good with my index release, but I feel that is because I haven't been able to use it long enough. So I am wondering if I should keep at it, with my messed up hand or just stick with the index type release.
Anyone else with a similar situation would hold great merit in my minds eye.
Thanks Men.......


These pics show the max I can bend the 2 fingers

 

[mfllood3800]

Due to the way my fingers work (and don't work) I got a 3 finger hinge, cause my main middle finger and ring finger don't "rotate". I am always leery of "relaxing" the pointer finger in this rotation. I have become some what adaptive to getting the shot to go off. But I find myself making a fist with the pinky and not relaxing the pointer as much as would be proficient.

When I do practice I can group pretty good. I just cant repeat a lot of shots due to fatigue. I can only draw back with my thumb and pointer engaged.I also cant split the pointer and middle finger to sit in my jaw line for a consistent anchor.

Is it worth it to invest more $$ to see if a BT release will work? The hinge just isn't working text book for my hand.

I like the Silver back and want to try it, but not at $200 if it will be a waste of time.

 

[theleo91386]

I can't say for sure as I've never dealt with an injury like that but my gut says you'd be better off attaching a release to a Rip Shot to take some of the strain off your two fingers. With your elbow holding the string back it should open up more ways for you to manipulate the hinge.

 

[RosinBag]

I would say shoot your index finger release using back tension to execute the shot.

There is no such thing as a back tension release, back tension is a technique to execute the shot. There are index finger, thumb button, resistance and hinge style releases.

If you already shoot your index finger well, just practice to shoot it better.

 

[mfllood3800]

The new release from Dudley is called a back tension by him, so I just refer to it as such.

I have tried shortening up my wrist release to get the finger more wrapped around the trigger to activate it similar to a hinge. But I find my self very easily predicting the shot. Even with the Carter Hinge I have, I can easily force a shot and anticipate it and stay on target pretty well.

I just want to continue the hinge type, but know my holding of it is not proper, not by choice but by handicap.

I appreciate the response guys- thank you.

 

[Gerard Marcaurele]

Can you perhaps switch to a thumb trigger with a wrist strap? It’ll alleviate the need to draw with finger strength and they can give you the ability to execute back tension...

 

[mfllood3800]

Can you perhaps switch to a thumb trigger with a wrist strap? It’ll alleviate the need to draw with finger strength and they can give you the ability to execute back tension...

Yes I thought about this and wondered if target panic would be an issue. I have it, but not bad, and want it gone right now. It has never been an issue for me, but is starting the early signs of creeping in. Not every shot, but on some.

This is why I got a hinge to begin with. But my hands don't allow proper use, though it helps with its intended purpose.

 

[3forks]

As you know, you can fire any release by manipulating in it in your hand as opposed to using proper back tension to make the shot break.

I think you also know you can shoot a index finger release with back tension. I'd suggest maybe trying that since your fingers may not pose the problem with a index release that your hinge does.

At some point, even with a hinge, your mind will start to understand/expect when the shot is going to break and it won't be the surprise that is the essence of using back tension.

Some guys buy multiple of the same hinge and set the tension on them differently so they can pull one out of their pouch and not be able to predict when it it going to fire. Not sure you could easily do that with an index release, but maybe something to consider.

 

[Gerard Marcaurele]

Yes I thought about this and wondered if target panic would be an issue. I have it, but not bad, and want it gone right now. It has never been an issue for me, but is starting the early signs of creeping in. Not every shot, but on some.

This is why I got a hinge to begin with. But my hands don't allow proper use, though it helps with its intended purpose.

I know this is anecdotal, but when I wanted to get into a handheld release to cure target panicked, I went straight to a thumb button. It took probably 2000 reps on a “string bow”, but it broke some bad habits and I can shoot pretty well. The name of the game for me was repetition. The only release that is nearly impossible to manipulate is a true back tension like the evolution from Carter. But with your hands, you would likely be better off with something you aren’t having to rely on hand strength to activate the tension.

The only other cure you may have is to buy a true tension release and then somehow attach a wrist strap. You can use your thumb to work the safety then rely mostly on your wrist to add tension to activate the shot.

I am sorry if I’m not making sense, just trying to think of options to get you where you want to be. I agree that it’s be easier to just keep doing what you’re doing, but I’ve experienced such bad target panicking with an index release that I avoid them at all costs

 

[mfllood3800]

I know this isn’t anecdotal, but when I wanted to get into a handheld release to cure target panicked, I went straight to a thumb button. It took probably 2000 reps on a “string bow”, but it broke some bad habits and I can shoot pretty well. The name of the game for me was repetition. The only release that is nearly impossible to manipulate is a true back tension like the evolution from Carter. But with your hands, you would likely be better off with something you aren’t having to rely on hand strength to activate the tension.

The only other cure you may have is to buy a true tension release and then somehow attach a wrist strap. You can use your thumb to work the safety then rely mostly on your wrist to add tension to activate the shot.

I am sorry if I’m not making sense, just trying to think of options to get you where you want to be. I agree that it’s be easier to just keep doing what you’re doing, but I’ve experienced such bad target panicking with an index release that I avoid them at all costs

Exactly what I am determined to prevent

I well keep shooting my Carter
I can use it, no problems I
Just know I'm not using it correctly

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[mfllood3800]

Just an update clarification: I can pull the hinge back, but I am concerned I am twisting my string with the improper grip. My shots are not consistent. And not in grouping with my index release. I assumed it was the anchor point. But it may be more than that. I may try a thumb release. I just have a hard time "rotating" for the hinge type release as I cant hardly relax my pointer finger for fear of loosing my grip on the whole release. That's why I was seeking a back tension.

 

[Lawnboi]

I don have much to add, I'm in a similar situation, though I have a resistance release, and want to try a hinge. That said after using the resistance a bunch this winter (Stan element 4 finger) Iv come to the conclusion that a guy can punch any release out there. I'm not a believer that a resistance release will fix much if your minds not into a surprise shot.

I'm going to try to get my hands on a hinge. The tension release is nice, but I would never hunt with the thing, and would rather use it as more of a trainer, than a main release. Also been toying with getting another thumb trigger, in the Stan variety. That said I like my index too, and can shoot it well when my mind is right, and greatly prefer that style for in the field.

Long story short, like you I want to try them all. I just see myself going back to an index, and shooting it with my mind right, utilizing back tension.

Id offer you the element to try out, but I don't think a medium would work with your mitts

 

[Lawnboi]

Also if your truly trying to obtain the release your after, I'd eliminate the target for a while. Blank bale, focusing on execution and what's comfortable for you. Adjust peep and site from there.

My poi changes when switching, and if I jump right to targets I find myself chasing spots rather than focusing on what's comfortable.

 

[theleo91386]

Just an update clarification: I can pull the hinge back, but I am concerned I am twisting my string with the improper grip. My shots are not consistent. And not in grouping with my index release. I assumed it was the anchor point. But it may be more than that. I may try a thumb release. I just have a hard time "rotating" for the hinge type release as I cant hardly relax my pointer finger for fear of loosing my grip on the whole release. That's why I was seeking a back tension.

I should have asked this earlier, have you tried using your elbow as the means of rotation?

You'd have to set your Honey pretty hot/fast, but the process goes something like this.

1) Hook up your release.

2) Drawback from your elbow, meaning that you treat your forearm as a piece of rope that just connects your elbow to your release. This will give you more of an up and over sort of motion with your elbow and force you to use the muscles in your back.

3) When you get to full draw leave your elbow slightly out from your body, and I mean slightly.

4) Get your nose on the string and looking through the peep.

5) Take the safety off.

6) Start bringing your elbow towards the back of your head while the pin is floating around the target.

7) Trust the float, the shot will come.

If you haven't shot a hinge much before don't worry your not getting the consistency you get from your index release. You need to first find a way to manipulate the rotation of the release that's comfortable for you, then you need to spend 3-4 months shooting it religiously before you compare groups between your releases.

 

[RosinBag]

Just an update clarification: I can pull the hinge back, but I am concerned I am twisting my string with the improper grip. My shots are not consistent. And not in grouping with my index release. I assumed it was the anchor point. But it may be more than that. I may try a thumb release. I just have a hard time "rotating" for the hinge type release as I cant hardly relax my pointer finger for fear of loosing my grip on the whole release. That's why I was seeking a back tension.

If you think your inconsistencies are possibly related to you twisting the release, you could try using BCY #23 for your release rope. I don't know for sure, but most use #24 or something similar and it is very stiff and can influence the string and nock if there is a lot of twisting of the handheld. It is also more common to not have your index finger and any handheld to impact in the same spot from release to release. Your anchor is just different enough to affect this. Good luck.

 

[mfllood3800]

I should have asked this earlier, have you tried using your elbow as the means of rotation?

You'd have to set your Honey pretty hot/fast, but the process goes something like this.

1) Hook up your release.

2) Drawback from your elbow, meaning that you treat your forearm as a piece of rope that just connects your elbow to your release. This will give you more of an up and over sort of motion with your elbow and force you to use the muscles in your back.

3) When you get to full draw leave your elbow slightly out from your body, and I mean slightly.

4) Get your nose on the string and looking through the peep.

5) Take the safety off.

6) Start bringing your elbow towards the back of your head while the pin is floating around the target.

7) Trust the float, the shot will come.

If you haven't shot a hinge much before don't worry your not getting the consistency you get from your index release. You need to first find a way to manipulate the rotation of the release that's comfortable for you, then you need to spend 3-4 months shooting it religiously before you compare groups between your releases.

Good idea and will focus on the elbow. It will also give my mind something to focus on rather than the releasing of the shot.

 

[mfllood3800]

If you think your inconsistencies are possibly related to you twisting the release, you could try using BCY #23 for your release rope. I don't know for sure, but most use #24 or something similar and it is very stiff and can influence the string and nock if there is a lot of twisting of the handheld. It is also more common to not have your index finger and any handheld to impact in the same spot from release to release. Your anchor is just different enough to affect this. Good luck.

Yep and I use the lightest possible rope.
I saw that Dudely was claiming his new release pretty much holds true to the silver back which is why I was gonna try it. I already shoot the carter honey and hoped it would fit into the pocket and come out with similar results. But at $200 I was just looking for reasons to justify it.

I appreciate your insight and help.
I have resisted using my index like a Back tension, due to its "feel". Perhaps I just need to persist and work that in. I can shoot 5 times the arrows with it than my hinge due to fatigue.

 

[3forks]

Just an update clarification: I can pull the hinge back, but I am concerned I am twisting my string with the improper grip. My shots are not consistent. And not in grouping with my index release. I assumed it was the anchor point. But it may be more than that. I may try a thumb release. I just have a hard time "rotating" for the hinge type release as I cant hardly relax my pointer finger for fear of loosing my grip on the whole release. That's why I was seeking a back tension.

Have you gotten any coaching?

There's a million ways to hold a hinge and all of them will influence how the shot breaks. Relaxing your index finger is one way to get the hinge to fire, but so is making a fist.

Also, where you hold the hinge in your hand will need to be just as consistent as where you anchor or you'll never get consistency.

The trouble is, with a hinge, you may only be engaging your back but not pulling through with your rhomboids to get the hinge to fire. In addition, if you're manipulating the release in your hand to get it to fire, you're essentially doing the same thing you're doing with an index release. Consequently, you may as well use the release you can hold best because you'll at least be more comfortable with it and can manipulate it easier than using a more complex movement used to make your hinge fire.

A thumb release will be just as easy to get to command fire or "punch" as an index trigger.

I own a resistance Carter Evolution release and agree with Lawnboi's comments. You can "punch" a resistance release too, but it's not as easy to do. Essentially, to correctly fire a resistance release you need to keep your bow shoulder down and push forward while pulling back consistently with your release hand. If you don't push forward with your bow hand, you will be compressing and pulling so hard with your release hand that your pins will be getting pulled off the target and your shot will take forever to break.

To get an idea of what a proper shot execution should feel like in your back; take an arrow and hold it so your hands are opposing each other in the center of the arrow. Put the arrow just down from your chin and a little above the top of your chest. Then, with equal effort on both of your hands, grip the arrow tightly and try to pull the arrow apart (basically try to imagine you're trying to pull the arrow apart in your hands). You should feel your back engaged equally on both sides of your spine.

I guess my point is, if you haven't gotten any coaching, get some with a qualified instructor and have that person assess where you are in your form. From there, pick a release you can properly hold and shoot it with back tension.

*You're probably getting more commentary and suggestions on your issue than you want or need.

 

[RosinBag]

Yep and I use the lightest possible rope.
I saw that Dudely was claiming his new release pretty much holds true to the silver back which is why I was gonna try it. I already shoot the carter honey and hoped it would fit into the pocket and come out with similar results. But at $200 I was just looking for reasons to justify it.

I appreciate your insight and help.
I have resisted using my index like a Back tension, due to its "feel". Perhaps I just need to persist and work that in. I can shoot 5 times the arrows with it than my hinge due to fatigue.

Dudley’s releases should have same point if impact as they all share the same handle. That may help you decide.

The wrist strap / index finger is easier for shooting more. I wouldn’t give up on it for your situation, but if you stay with it, just practice learning to execute it with back tension. You are on the right track for sure, so I am sure you will figure out what works best for you.

 

[mfllood3800]

Have you gotten any coaching?

There's a million ways to hold a hinge and all of them will influence how the shot breaks. Relaxing your index finger is one way to get the hinge to fire, but so is making a fist.

Also, where you hold the hinge in your hand will need to be just as consistent as where you anchor or you'll never get consistency.

The trouble is, with a hinge, you may only be engaging your back but not pulling through with your rhomboids to get the hinge to fire. In addition, if you're manipulating the release in your hand to get it to fire, you're essentially doing the same thing you're doing with an index release. Consequently, you may as well use the release you can hold best because you'll at least be more comfortable with it and can manipulate it easier than using a more complex movement used to make your hinge fire.

A thumb release will be just as easy to get to command fire or "punch" as an index trigger.

I own a resistance Carter Evolution release and agree with Lawnboi's comments. You can "punch" a resistance release too, but it's not as easy to do. Essentially, to correctly fire a resistance release you need to keep your bow shoulder down and push forward while pulling back consistently with your release hand. If you don't push forward with your bow hand, you will be compressing and pulling so hard with your release hand that your pins will be getting pulled off the target and your shot will take forever to break.

To get an idea of what a proper shot execution should feel like in your back; take an arrow and hold it so your hands are opposing each other in the center of the arrow. Put the arrow just down from your chin and a little above the top of your chest. Then, with equal effort on both of your hands, grip the arrow tightly and try to pull the arrow apart (basically try to imagine you're trying to pull the arrow apart in your hands). You should feel your back engaged equally on both sides of your spine.

I guess my point is, if you haven't gotten any coaching, get some with a qualified instructor and have that person assess where you are in your form. From there, pick a release you can properly hold and shoot it with back tension.

*You're probably getting more commentary and suggestions on your issue than you want or need.

No
It's all good stuff
I appreciate it


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