New Ulmer Broadhead

[HookUp]

Ugggg. Archery isn't a perfect world. Fixed blades are less accurate, mechanical's fail. I don't have any doubt animals are lost with all heads. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[ckleeves]

I wasn’t a fan of the original Ulmer edge. We shot them for a season and took quite a few animals with them.

Strangest arrow paths inside game I have ever seen with them. We recovered everything we shot with them and saw things I wouldn’t have believed if I hadn’t have been there. Broadside animals with exits out the hindquarters, quartering away animals with exits that looked like the animal was quartering towards etc.

I’ll stick with Rage. Shouldn’t have strayed in the first place.


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[Hoythews71]

I picked up two of the new ones to mess around with. Not sure if I'll hunt with them, but I always liked the design (even though I've never hunted with the old models either) and wouldn't mind at least seeing how they perform.

 

[brocksw]

Actually - looks like the issue would / could occur if you broke one side. Then the other side pivots back into the BH body because of the lack of opposing resistance.

Exactly what happened here:

So apparently the new head is designed with a... "back up tab" for lack of a better word. This tab is specifically designed to ensure that if one blade breaks, the other will lock open still do its job. This of course is in theory and in tests performed in ballistic gel so only time will tell if it works as described.

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[jmez]

You break a blade and the other stays locked the arrow is going to want to make a hard turn in the direction of the locked out blade. Nothing apposing it on the other side. Penetration is going to pretty much stop right there.

 

[Brendan]

So apparently the new head is designed with a... "back up tab" for lack of a better word. This tab is specifically designed to ensure that if one blade breaks, the other will lock open still do its job. This of course is in theory and in tests performed in ballistic gel so only time will tell if it works as described.

You break a blade and the other stays locked the arrow is going to want to make a hard turn in the direction of the locked out blade. Nothing apposing it on the other side. Penetration is going to pretty much stop right there.

I will wait until someone does that test and posts some videos or data with one of the blades broken... Don't need any more mech heads this year as I'm only shooting whitetail and have some killzones and spitfires to use up, I have the luxury of waiting and seeing how they hold up.

 

[5MilesBack]

Is there any reason why they can't double the thickness and strength of these mechanical blades? Why do they all have to be tin metal thin?

 

[Btaylor]

Is there any reason why they can't double the thickness and strength of these mechanical blades? Why do they all have to be tin metal thin?

My guess would be they would have to increase the size and weight of the ferrule to maintain structural integrity with a significantly heavier blade. The general bowhunting public is conditioned to buying 100 grain heads for the most part with a moderate sprinkling of 125's. "Only trad shooters run bigger than 125 grains" being a common thought. I would love to see some 150-175 grain mech. heads with some more substantial blades. Might not have to always use brass inserts then.

 

[5MilesBack]

Ya, I don't even care what the end weight ends up at.......just make them stronger. But the added weight would be a benefit to most the guys shooting them anyway.

 

[jmez]

Kind of ironic that FOC and EFOC seem to be the topic of the day yet guys are all trying to figure out how to do this using 100gr broadheads.

 

[Btaylor]

Kind of ironic that FOC and EFOC seem to be the topic of the day yet guys are all trying to figure out how to do this using 100gr broadheads.

Kinda like fashion, what's old is new again. Before you know it I will be able to re-fletch some 2117's, spin on some Razorbak 5's and be in style.

 

[RosinBag]

You can make a 100 grain broadhead nearly any total weight up front with most arrows. Different weight inserts or weights can make this weigh anything you want.

 

[Brendan]

You can make a 100 grain broadhead nearly any total weight up front with most arrows. Different weight inserts or weights can make this weigh anything you want.

Don't 100% agree with this. I have one arrow setup I might like a little more (certainly not less) tip weight and I've already got 75 grain brass inserts and 125 grain heads.

One of my other arrows I could go from 50 to 75 grains of brass and go back to 100 grain heads from 125, but that's not an across the board truth...

 

[HookUp]

John Dudley says 100 grain broadheads are often more accurate and runs weighted inserts. Levi Morgan says FOC matters the most on the internet.
Not that they know what they are talking about. They are just your average run of the mill world champion archers. I'd listen to them if they had a higher archery talk post count.

 

[MattB]

John Dudley says 100 grain broadheads are often more accurate and runs weighted inserts. Levi Morgan says FOC matters the most on the internet.
Not that they know what they are talking about. They are just your average run of the mill world champion archers. I'd listen to them if they had a higher archery talk post count.

I agree and disagree. I can see where 100 gr. BH's may be more accurate due to smaller blades and such, but if I am going to add weight to the business end of the arrow I'd rather it be in the BH than an insert/weight. While I have limited experience hunting with world champion archers, in my limited experience they focus more on the arrow hitting where they aim it rather than what the arrow does once it hits. Great archers, maybe not so great bowhunters.

 

[Brendan]

John Dudley says 100 grain broadheads are often more accurate and runs weighted inserts. Levi Morgan says FOC matters the most on the internet.
Not that they know what they are talking about. They are just your average run of the mill world champion archers. I'd listen to them if they had a higher archery talk post count.

To be honest - not even really sure where you were going with this, and I've listened to Dudley's take on this extensively. Too many adult beverages?

Here was Dudley's opinion in a nutshell, my translation. To be fair, I think he could have done a better job explaining certain parts of his reasoning: FOC is good, dynamic spine and accuracy is more important. FOC should be the result of the arrow setup you choose, but he also said his most accurate target arrows were 16-17% which is fairly hard to get in a hunting setup.

The other reason Dudley is hard on FOC is he has like a 31-32" draw length so has to cut his arrows real long, which means he can't load up the front of a 300 grain arrow and still have enough spine, accuracy would suffer for him. He has to run a 260/250 spine or run less weight up front - both of those push him towards a lower FOC. Not an issue for those of us with shorter DL and shorter arrows, we can still run higher FOC 300 or even 340 arrows with good spine / accuracy.

My take: I've tested different 300 spine arrows side by side, and so far had the best arrow flight and grouping with an arrow running 125 grain heads + 75 grains of brass. Going to do some more testing, but hard for me to go back to less weight up front when that's the case.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've shot plenty of 3" groups (and even better) at 70 and 80 with as low as 9% FOC. It is a little harder to get FOC's up with longer arrows and stiffer spines, but I've got some 300's with 75gr brass inserts and 210gr BH that comes in at 632gr and a little over 16% FOC. They're plenty accurate at least to 50. But they drop out of my pin range after that.

My normal every day hunting and long range target setup is a 520gr arrow with 125's and normal 16gr HIT's. It comes in right around 12% FOC which is fine as well.

 

[RosinBag]

I actually think FOC is catch phrase and is losing its luster. FOC could range from 8-16 and produce all the optimum results you could ask for if the arrow/bow set up.

The arrows forgiveness, grouping ability and consistency will be determined by the combination of bow, arrow and shooter.

If you decide you want 150, 200 or 250 up front, pick a broad head and insert combo that gives you your desired weight.

I think the majority of archers over think FOC.

 

[TheTone]

I think the majority of archers over think FOC.

I think a bunch certainly are right now.

Archery fads that come and go are super funny. When I got into bowhunting it seemed speed was the big thing, then it went to smooth, quiet and accurate setups, now speed seems to be back...and talking FOC

 

[5MilesBack]

I think the majority of archers over think FOC.

And that's exactly why Levi said what he said about it.