New Ulmer Broadhead

[PathFinder]

What are the drawbacks to higher FOC then? More expensive? Can't just pull it off the shelf at Wal Mart? Higher FOC is a big advantage when it comes to penetration in every way (overall weight, broadhead durability, less arrow deflection at impact, tougher insert) and has zero disadvantages. It's like cheap lift kits, 3-9 scopes, and 30-06 rifles. Just because loads of people use them, doesn't make it good. And when something better comes along, it doesn't automatically make it a fad. If anything, 100 grain heads and light arrows are the fad (based on what came first). Sure, regular setups work just fine most of the time, on most shots. I'm not debating that. High FOC is always better. Faster is always better. Quiet, stable, and smooth are always better. Why not have better? My current setup is 570 grains at 245 fps. 270 up front with nearly 21% FOC. I still made it to 110 yards on my tape and get excellent broadhead flight. No impact failures, no penetration issues. What's not to like?

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[Brendan]

What are the drawbacks to higher FOC then?

Primarily - Loading up the front of the arrow weakens the arrow - you may have to run a stiffer spine, which means an overall heavier arrow, which can affect speed, and pin gaps which becomes critical if you don't get range exact. Personally - I like to keep arrow speeds above 270 fps so that's a limiting factor for me.

Second, it's hard to get FOC higher than 15-16% with decent access to components. I like to be able to shoot mechanicals in some instances, fixed blades in others, so don't want to be stuck with using a specific 150,175, or 200 grain head. I'd like to be able to use something like a Rage Trypan in one case, an Iron will in another without sighting in differently.

I've heard that getting over 16-17% you can get an arrow to "nosedive" and drop more than just extra arrow weight would cause, but that's second hand.

My best accuracy has been in the 15-16% range which actually jives with what Dudley was saying about his target setup. But - that arrow combination probably isn't as strong as some of the others I've used in the 12-14% range.

It's all trade offs...

 

[RosinBag]

Exactly what Brendon said. There are disadvantages. I personally would never shoot a hunting set up under 270 either.

I know the trad guys do it, but they normally shoot 40 yards and under.

That’s a big peep to arrow length to get 570 grains with 270 up front and at 245 FPS out to 110 yards.

 

[RosinBag]

Any 440 grain arrow at say 285 will have more kinetic energy than the 570 grain arrow at 245. It also has nearly the same momentum numbers.

I also believe FOC has a point of diminishing returns. At some point, probably 18 and above.

I guess that is what makes archery for everyone, you can shoot what ever it is that you like.

 

[TheTone]

Very well said Brendan! Echoed many of my own personal thoughts.

 

[MattB]

What are the drawbacks to higher FOC then? More expensive? Can't just pull it off the shelf at Wal Mart? Higher FOC is a big advantage when it comes to penetration in every way (overall weight, broadhead durability, less arrow deflection at impact, tougher insert) and has zero disadvantages. It's like cheap lift kits, 3-9 scopes, and 30-06 rifles. Just because loads of people use them, doesn't make it good. And when something better comes along, it doesn't automatically make it a fad. If anything, 100 grain heads and light arrows are the fad (based on what came first). Sure, regular setups work just fine most of the time, on most shots. I'm not debating that. High FOC is always better. Faster is always better. Quiet, stable, and smooth are always better. Why not have better? My current setup is 570 grains at 245 fps. 270 up front with nearly 21% FOC. I still made it to 110 yards on my tape and get excellent broadhead flight. No impact failures, no penetration issues. What's not to like?

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Zero disadvantages? Nope. If you run a really heavy arrow, your trajectory suffers. If you run a lighter arrow with a high FOC, the durability of your arrow suffers.

 

[Beendare]

Primarily - Loading up the front of the arrow weakens the arrow - you may have to run a stiffer spine, which means an overall heavier arrow, which can affect speed, and pin gaps which becomes critical if you don't get range exact. Personally - I like to keep arrow speeds above 270 fps so that's a limiting factor for me.

Second, it's hard to get FOC higher than 15-16% with decent access to components. I like to be able to shoot mechanicals in some instances, fixed blades in others, so don't want to be stuck with using a specific 150,175, or 200 grain head. I'd like to be able to use something like a Rage Trypan in one case, an Iron will in another without sighting in differently.

I've heard that getting over 16-17% you can get an arrow to "nosedive" and drop more than just extra arrow weight would cause, but that's second hand.

My best accuracy has been in the 15-16% range which actually jives with what Dudley was saying about his target setup. But - that arrow combination probably isn't as strong as some of the others I've used in the 12-14% range.

It's all trade offs...

I've tested high FOC arrow setups....and I've shot very heavy 840 gr arrows for big critters.

I think Brendan and Matt B pretty much nailed it. Everything is a tradeoff in archery.

I look at FOC as just one more factor....and its a small one. High FOC doesn't have any magical powers I've seen.

The guys touting very high FOC like to talk about penetration [which you can get just by increasing arrow weight]....but they never account for the launch. Its Tradeoffs. I can tell you that very high FOC in my tests [27%] made my arrows more critical of tiny form flaws...you know, like when you are in the woods on uneven ground with a split second to take the shot of a lifetime..../grin

It really boils down to "Who do you trust for good advice?"....I trust the pros and Easton engineers regarding FOC.

 

[mtbshark]

Primarily - Loading up the front of the arrow weakens the arrow - you may have to run a stiffer spine, which means an overall heavier arrow, which can affect speed, and pin gaps which becomes critical if you don't get range exact. Personally - I like to keep arrow speeds above 270 fps so that's a limiting factor for me.

Second, it's hard to get FOC higher than 15-16% with decent access to components. I like to be able to shoot mechanicals in some instances, fixed blades in others, so don't want to be stuck with using a specific 150,175, or 200 grain head. I'd like to be able to use something like a Rage Trypan in one case, an Iron will in another without sighting in differently.

I've heard that getting over 16-17% you can get an arrow to "nosedive" and drop more than just extra arrow weight would cause, but that's second hand.

My best accuracy has been in the 15-16% range which actually jives with what Dudley was saying about his target setup. But - that arrow combination probably isn't as strong as some of the others I've used in the 12-14% range.

It's all trade offs...

I don’t understand why y’all can’t find components to get the weight you want up front. There is a lot of options out there, you just need to look at all brands that offer your diameter arrow.
I wanted a certain weight arrow and wanted a outsert with maximum coverage. I found the outsert from one brand (Black Eagle) and put a insert behind it from another brand (Easton) and then installed them into a victory arrow. Got roughly the weight and foc that I was looking for.


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[PathFinder]

Ditto on using a cheap mech now and then. There are definitely times I'd rather not be shooting a 250 grain $40 dollar head. Mostly at small antelope and baboons in Africa though, I'll probably take some different arrows for that purpose when I go back.
The high FOC arrows definitely don't nosedive. Anyone who believes that must have missed that day in elementary school when they drop the two different weight balls, and they fall at the same rate. I was surprised to see how little my gaps between sight marks grew beyond 70 yards. Definitely a lower rate of velocity loss at long range than a light arrow. I was expecting my trajectory to be much worse than it is. Holding over/under with my pin set at 40 to hit 20/30/50 required less compensation than I expected.
The 570 grain arrow has over 10% more momentum than the 440 at 280. And again, KE means zilch for penetration. Absolutely nothing.
Some light shafts may be less durable. But I guarantee my current setup is significantly more durable than the run of the mill arrow setup. From the testing I've done, I can't imagine a frontal impact failure on an animal. I've done a lot of destructive testing this year, and no in/outsert I tested was fail proof except for the Valkyrie. Even the grizzly stick ones would fail on the second shot.

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[cuerro viejo]

I don’t understand why y’all can’t find components to get the weight you want up front. There is a lot of options out there, you just need to look at all brands that offer your diameter arrow.
I wanted a certain weight arrow and wanted a outsert with maximum coverage. I found the outsert from one brand (Black Eagle) and put a insert behind it from another brand (Easton) and then installed them into a victory arrow. Got roughly the weight and foc that I was looking for.


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I’ve been playing w/ axis’s with 100gr hit, you can get 50 and 75gr brass extensions from kudu point, 200gr field points from 3rivers

I know from experience with multiple arrow set ups if I get over 650 gr and especially 700gr 25’sh% FOC. It’s a train wreck group, but it really helps me work on my form. Arrow is on that string for a lot longer then when it’s 525 grains

 

[doverpack12]

I got my SEVR heads today. They look pretty good. Need to spin them onto some arrows and see how they shoot.