Easton vs Black Eagle

[mfllood3800]

Thanks for the info man. According to their chart I would be a 350 spine. With similar stats why did you go with 400 spine?

Some guys go as weak a spine as they can, to get a lighter GPI set up. Others wont run much weight on the tip and can also get by with a weaker spine.

I would focus on getting the DI shafts as I prefer BEA.
At 26" arrow, and a 125 gr tip, I'd do the 350 spine myself with a 3 fletch and the alumn outsert that comes with it and regular nock. That would get you right at 420 grains and probably around 255 fps.
This is the simplified explanation version
lol

 

[Trial153]

He are some suggestions.

27” Victory Rips TKO, 350s , 50 grain brass hits, with hundred grain head and you little over 410 grains total. No messing with sucky outserts. You will have plenty of spine and when you hunt elk you can up your Broadhead weight and still be good.

27” BEA Spartans, 350s, SS insert with 50 grains of brass....finished weight about 420ish. Same as above add more weight when and if you elk hunt.

27 “ BEA Rampages, 75 grain hits .....same as above.



26 “ 3-49 ACCs, grain brass H inserts [#2]. Your looking at finished weight about 430ish ....stick with 100 grain heads.


27” Easton Hexx! 330, 75 grain brass h inserts, looking about 400 with 100 grain heads...plenty of spine to bump up to a heavier head if you elk hunt.

 

[Trial153]

Another suggestion

26” GT velocity pros, 340s, 20 grain fact weights, 100 grain heads...little over 400 finished weight. Buy 50 grain fact weights and the wrench ...when you go elk hunting add another 50 grain fact weight.

 

[Brendan]

You asked for opinions, so I'll give you mine: Get rid of all Micro Diameter Arrows from your choices. No Deep Impact. No X Impact. No Gold Tip Pierce. No 4mm FMJ. No reason to run them.

Micro Diameter arrows have one practical benefit: That's wind drift at long ranges, and they have more potential issues with them when you need to run broadheads because of the insert/outsert designs. I think they'd be a great choice for outdoor field arrows when you're only running target points.

I would look at 5mm Axis or Rampage in the appropriate spine with HIT inserts (probably 400 spine with your specs, maybe a 340 if you think you'd up your draw weight). Bigger arrows are fine too. Gold Tip Pro Hunter worked for me for years. Done and done.

 

[NDGuy]

He are some suggestions.

27” Victory Rips TKO, 350s , 50 grain brass hits, with hundred grain head and you little over 410 grains total. No messing with sucky outserts. You will have plenty of spine and when you hunt elk you can up your Broadhead weight and still be good.

27” BEA Spartans, 350s, SS insert with 50 grains of brass....finished weight about 420ish. Same as above add more weight when and if you elk hunt.

27 “ BEA Rampages, 75 grain hits .....same as above.



26 “ 3-49 ACCs, grain brass H inserts [#2]. Your looking at finished weight about 430ish ....stick with 100 grain heads.


27” Easton Hexx! 330, 75 grain brass h inserts, looking about 400 with 100 grain heads...plenty of spine to bump up to a heavier head if you elk hunt.

Thanks a bunch. Not a fan of Easton?

 

[Trial153]

Thanks a bunch. Not a fan of Easton?

There are some easton i like and some i dont. I think ACCs are the best arrow on the market. And i was forced to pick one arrow line for everything it would be ACC over everything else.
HeXX been really consistent, as well as the datorch.


5mm FMJ are great shafts however they need to be babied.


6MM stay clear, thin walled and ding up fast
Axis, too many culls in batchs. they may have changed it with the "match " grade..? I didnt like them, however plenty of great bowhunters do.

 

[BWG13]

Thanks for the info man. According to their chart I would be a 350 spine. With similar stats why did you go with 400 spine?

That was the recommended spine from my shop when I bought the arrows. I'm right on the border between a 400 and 350 spine given my arrow length. To be honest, I tried these arrows out when I was first getting into archery and didn't fully understand all the spine/FOC/etc information. But, I have had great luck getting the 400 spines to tune with my setup. Since I've been messing around with making a switch to 125 gr points lately in order to get a heavy hunting arrow setup, I am moving to a 350 spine.

 

[Beendare]

Some of the answers are making my head hurt. More is being made out of this then needs to be.

Agreed...page one has some bad info.


Its counter intuitive but a faster arrow doesn't help you with string jumping...it makes it more likely.

You don't need to load up the end of your arrow with Uber FOC.....it comes down to who are you getting your advice from; Backyard testers...or Easton engineers that developed these gosh darn arrows and have 50 years of scientific testing on them. All of the pros...in every facet of archery are all pretty close to the easton recommended range of 8%- 16% FOC.
Why you would anyone go against that kind of expertise and experience?

I get that some very experienced guys like Brendan can get high FOC to work....but to the guys just starting to get their arms around this are asking for trouble, IMO.

As to the skinny shafts....I shot them for many years back when I was sponsored by Beman. the shafts are great....but the components are difficult to get [and keep] straight...especially for a inexperienced shooter.

I like the 5mm size...it gives you the best of both worlds.

 

[NDGuy]

As to the skinny shafts....I shot them for many years back when I was sponsored by Beman. the shafts are great....but the components are difficult to get [and keep] straight...especially for a inexperienced shooter.

I like the 5mm size...it gives you the best of both worlds.

Alright I have eliminated the smaller shafts. Now looking at the Spartans or Rampages from BE vs FMJ or Axis. The carbon arrows I would have to put in 50gr inserts to get above 400gr. So it goes back to a heavier all around arrow vs lighter shafts and having a heavier front using the 100% Carbons w/heavier inserts. None of those arrows will likely be getting above 260 fps so it comes down to material, price, and if I want a heavier head. The BEs all seem a horse a piece with small weight differences.

 

[5MilesBack]

At 65lbs and a 420gr+ arrow, you'll be fine......no matter what your speed is. Use a good BH......preferably a COC and you shouldn't have to worry about penetration. 250fps is fine.

 

[Brendan]

I get that some very experienced guys like Brendan can get high FOC to work....but to the guys just starting to get their arms around this are asking for trouble, IMO.

I suppose I should clarify "Higher FOC" for me. I haven't been able to get any of my arrows over 17% and keep everything else where I wanted to, so I'm not extreme by any means.

But, those 15-17% arrows shot more consistently for me than ~10-12% FOC Arrows.

Big Caveat - I shoot 300 Spine Arrows, 250 where necessary to keep them stiff enough.

 

[mfllood3800]

I respect and often agree with Beendare on his technical side of archery. He knows way more than I do. I am not afraid to come here and admit that.
If my posts are what he is referencing to full of bad information, I am open to learn my mistakes. But I feel more was misunderstood on his part than misrepresented on my part.

A few things he expresses here IMO, is incorrect. I respectfully disagree with his blanket comment that "a faster arrow isn't a better set up for jumpy deer". I am assuming he is assuming a faster bow is always going to be inherently noisier and that noise is what the deer hear. A faster bow doesn't haven't to be noisier, though many might be, especially if by faster you are talking a "lot" faster. For my set ups as I mentioned its the difference of 25 grains, which equates to about a few fps. This on a jumpy deer can be the difference of 3-5" of POI.
In my scenarios I have witnessed, jumpy deer jump anything, from clanging bows to whistling arrows, and even a quiet slower heavy arrowed bow.

I also don't go uber high on the FOC and made sure I pointed that out. I believe I said 17%-19% to specifically point out I am not the guy who seeks "uber" foc.
But I do like how my bows group at longer distances when I have a slightly higher than standard foc. I believe that is 1-2%% above the standard- again not a "Uber high foc" Also pretty sure I pointed that out.
Setting my arrows up at this FOC certainly wont cause trouble for any archer, new or old.

It just happens that my DL, Broadhead, and choice of parts making up my arrows always puts me that 1-2% beyond what they mention as optimal range for FOC. I have seen some at 3% above , because of heavier components or me gluing, epoxying more etc.. I am not nor did I ever mention 20%- 23% +as some companies and folks are now out there driving.

Lastly there is definitely a place for "skinny" shafts in the real world of out door hunting. Don't be so quick to abandon your original findings. Some of us will take 90-100 yard shots in wind, and a skinny arrow excels in this scenario..
The areas many of us Western hunters head to each Sept present these situations frequently.

To the OP I would continue to research where, when and how you plan to hunt, and go from there. You will appreciate the ability of these small diameter arrows to cut wind down range, and possibly add penetration abilities with less resistance of shaft diameter.

I think for your set up the DI from BEA would suit you just fine. The quality and consistency of these arrows is 2nd to none.
Many successful hunters are using these smaller shafts with great results out west.

 

[NDGuy]

I think in summary, since I am limited on what my 420-450gr arrows speed will be (around 250 fps) would I be better off getting a heavier arrow like the FMJ that can reach 430gr by itself? Or would I be better with a lighter arrow such as the Easton Axis or BE Rampage that would get me to 420-450 with a heavy insert? All else being the same it seems like my main two options to reach a "do all" arrow weight are heavy balanced arrow vs a front heavy lighter arrow.

Like Trial suggested between the two I am leaning towards a higher FOC and being front heavy all other things basically being equal.

 

[Cant hit em]

I think in summary, since I am limited on what my 420-450gr arrows speed will be (around 250 fps) would I be better off getting a heavier arrow like the FMJ that can reach 430gr by itself? Or would I be better with a lighter arrow such as the Easton Axis or BE Rampage that would get me to 420-450 with a heavy insert? All else being the same it seems like my main two options to reach a "do all" arrow weight are heavy balanced arrow vs a front heavy lighter arrow.

Like Trial suggested between the two I am leaning towards a higher FOC and being front heavy all other things basically being equal.

I think the Rampage is what your looking for , remember to go a spine stiffer than charts recommend if your adding weight up front


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[NDGuy]

I think the Rampage is what your looking for , remember to go a spine stiffer than charts recommend if your adding weight up front


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Is that a rule of thumb? I asked BE and they said a 350 spine will work great. I would have assumed they took that in to account for their spines when included a 56gr insert with the Rampages/Renegades. Or made a note to spine down etc.


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[Cant hit em]

Is that a rule of thumb? I asked BE and they said a 350 spine will work great. I would have assumed they took that in to account for their spines when included a 56gr insert with the Rampages/Renegades. Or made a note to spine down etc.


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If your going to add more up front then they recommend , yes , ive found a little stiffer flies better than weak especially with fixed broadheads


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[mfllood3800]

Is that a rule of thumb? I asked BE and they said a 350 spine will work great. I would have assumed they took that in to account for their spines when included a 56gr insert with the Rampages/Renegades. Or made a note to spine down etc.


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It really depends where you are n the arrow manufacturers chart. If you are on the border and decide to go heavier tip, the move to stiffer spine. But if you are barely in the suggested range, you would be ok. The manufacturer of your arrow choice should know if you give them all the info incl fletching.

 

[NDGuy]

If your going to add more up front then they recommend , yes , ive found a little stiffer flies better than weak especially with fixed broadheads


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Yes but what I’m saying is since the 56gr insert is included and standard with the arrow I’m not adding weight right? The only way I’m moving to a stiffer spine on their chart is to shoot 70+ or shoot a 28in arrow. I guess I could cut them to be 28 vs 27 though..


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[NDGuy]

It really depends where you are n the arrow manufacturers chart. If you are on the border and decide to go heavier tip, the move to stiffer spine. But if you are barely in the suggested range, you would be ok. The manufacturer of your arrow choice should know if you give them all the info incl fletching.

Yes I wrote them and asked they said 350s are fine for my draw length and poundage shooting Rampages. I get that the rule is to stiffen the spine if you want to have a 50gr insert, but I’m a 350 spine for BE vs 400 on Easton so isn’t that already taken into account? I’ll maybe call them tomorrow to talk more in depth vs just the email I sent.


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[Brendan]

This thread is turning into a little bit of a tire fire of back and forth, some good, some bad, some conjecture.

Regarding spine - I already ran the numbers for you and gave you a recommendation directly out of OnTarget2 using your specific bow, your draw length and draw weight, and arrows with different tip weight combinations as opposed to "Rule of Thumb" or arguing about manufacturer charts...

You are not a 350 spine for one, and a 400 spine for the other. Spine is spine and is a standardized measurement. Software says you're fine (and a little stiff, actually) with a 400 at 65lb, 26" draw. If you're worried about it, just buy the 350, pick an arrow out of a hat, and go hunt.