Arrow choice

[J.G.]

Hi guys, I’ve been reading the forums for several months but this is my first post. I am planning to go west and hunt elk/mule deer this fall for the 1st time. I have been hunting deer in Ohio for 15 years. I recently purchased a Hoyt Rx-1 turbo, sweet shooting bow. My old Easton axis arrows were spined for 60 lb, but I’m moving up to a 70 lb draw weight at 28” long. I’ve been researching what arrows to get. My 2top choices were the FMJ injexion and Victory VAP TKO. I have some concerns about the durability of the FMJ, so I was leaning towards the VAP, but then I found the Victory xtorsion. Has anyone had any experience with these? I will be shooting Iron Will broadbeads. Was thinking 100 gr, but with 3 AAE max stealth veins what spine should I choose from Victory? Their spine chart says 350, does that sound right with the turbo? And should I go up in broadhead weight to lighten the spine if I go up to 300’s? Thanks for your help,
Jim

 

[Brendan]

I shoot a similar setup to you. RX1 Ultra with Turbo cams at 29.25", 71lb draw weight. So, slightly slower bow, but slightly longer draw length.

My arrows are cut 27" carbon to carbon. I shoot 300 spine and they fly great with 50 grain brass inserts and 125 grain heads. I am starting to flirt with being too weak according to the software with 125 grain heads and 75 grain inserts, still need to test this combination - have the components, haven't built the arrows. In your case, I'd probably go with 300 spine, but you could go with 340 and use less tip weight or back off on the poundage if needed.

Arrows: I personally would say avoid 4mm shafts and stick with 5mm (.204" ID) arrows. The micro diameter are too much trouble in my opinion - lots of threads on this here, but some people love them. Other arrows to check out in addition to the Axis (shoot these now) are the Black Eagle Rampage (testing soon), and Victory RIP TKO (no personal experience).

Xtorsion - no personal experience. But looks like it would be heavy and slow based on the specs. Up to you if that's a good thing. Also, with the stainless wrap, you could see similar durability issues / potential to bend as the FMJ. Just guessing here.

Max stealth vanes fletched right helical are a good choice.

 

[mfllood3800]

Arrows: I personally would say avoid 4mm shafts and stick with 5mm (.204" ID) arrows. The micro diameter are too much trouble in my opinion - lots of threads on this here, but some people love them. Other arrows to check out in addition to the Axis (shoot these now) are the Black Eagle Rampage

I will agree with this statement.
The micro's will work, but have a few more steps involved to get them assembled straight that may not be worth it.
I have the Black eagle X Impacts (Micro) that fly really well with some care in the assembly process. I cut these as short as possible.

I also have the Axis 340 Match Grade and the Black Eagle Rampage 300- 5 mm shafts.
Between these two, I prefer the Black Eagle shafts, just because they are lighter and allow me to play with FOC a little more, and my footers fit better.

I do use the Easton brass inserts, the Rayzor footers and 125 br broad heads on both set ups.


I am 28.5" DL, 66-70lbs. I cut my shafts at 27.75".
The Easton Match Grades are at the end of that spine limit, depending where I set the bow poundage, for me anyway, but still tune and group very well. They are just a heavier shaft. I take 25 gr off the Easton brass insert on the Match grades, which reduces my FOC ever so slightly, which isn't a big deal.
The Black Eagles Rampage are a little better fitting on the O.D. for the footers I am using, which gives me a little more simplicity in getting these spinning true. These shafts are the same I.D.


If I had to choose between the 2, I'd do the BE Rampage.

 

[J.G.]

I ended up going with Easton Axis 5mm, 300 with 50 gr insert and 125 gr head and 4 AAE max stealth vanes. At 27” if I did my math right I end up with 509.7 grain total arrow weight. I shot them through the chrono tonight at 263 FPS, 6 arrows same speed. Now have to stop shooting the vanes off!

 

[Brendan]

Almost the same arrow as I have for one of my setups. I am 26.5" Carbon to Carbon, 3 Max Stealth Vanes, 5 grain wrap and am around 504 - 505 grains.

 

[sneaky]

I shoot a similar setup to you. RX1 Ultra with Turbo cams at 29.25", 71lb draw weight. So, slightly slower bow, but slightly longer draw length.

My arrows are cut 27" carbon to carbon. I shoot 300 spine and they fly great with 50 grain brass inserts and 125 grain heads. I am starting to flirt with being too weak according to the software with 125 grain heads and 75 grain inserts, still need to test this combination - have the components, haven't built the arrows. In your case, I'd probably go with 300 spine, but you could go with 340 and use less tip weight or back off on the poundage if needed.

Arrows: I personally would say avoid 4mm shafts and stick with 5mm (.204" ID) arrows. The micro diameter are too much trouble in my opinion - lots of threads on this here, but some people love them. Other arrows to check out in addition to the Axis (shoot these now) are the Black Eagle Rampage (testing soon), and Victory RIP TKO (no personal experience).

Xtorsion - no personal experience. But looks like it would be heavy and slow based on the specs. Up to you if that's a good thing. Also, with the stainless wrap, you could see similar durability issues / potential to bend as the FMJ. Just guessing here.

Max stealth vanes fletched right helical are a good choice.

I think the Xtorsion arrows aren't even on the market yet, but durability should be better than an FMJ, it isn't a "wrap" it's stainless steel fibers woven into the carbon weave. Should be an extremely durable shaft without taking a set like FMJs do.

Properly set up a micro arrow is just as tough as a 5mm shaft. Thicker wall is an advantage. Outserts have always been the issue but with the systems from Valkyrie and Ethics, that has pretty much become a moot point. I'll take a micro shaft over a 5mm shaft when wind is in play, or I want the absolute best penetration. Lots of guys are fans of each, it's personal preference, but I've built and sold a ton of both and they each have their place.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Niceandkozy8]

Arrows: I personally would say avoid 4mm shafts and stick with 5mm (.204" ID) arrows. The micro diameter are too much trouble in my opinion - lots of threads on this here, but some people love them. Other arrows to check out in addition to the Axis (shoot these now) are the Black Eagle Rampage

I will agree with this statement.
The micro's will work, but have a few more steps involved to get them assembled straight that may not be worth it.
I have the Black eagle X Impacts (Micro) that fly really well with some care in the assembly process. I cut these as short as possible.

I also have the Axis 340 Match Grade and the Black Eagle Rampage 300- 5 mm shafts.
Between these two, I prefer the Black Eagle shafts, just because they are lighter and allow me to play with FOC a little more, and my footers fit better.

I do use the Easton brass inserts, the Rayzor footers and 125 br broad heads on both set ups.


I am 28.5" DL, 66-70lbs. I cut my shafts at 27.75".
The Easton Match Grades are at the end of that spine limit, depending where I set the bow poundage, for me anyway, but still tune and group very well. They are just a heavier shaft. I take 25 gr off the Easton brass insert on the Match grades, which reduces my FOC ever so slightly, which isn't a big deal.
The Black Eagles Rampage are a little better fitting on the O.D. for the footers I am using, which gives me a little more simplicity in getting these spinning true. These shafts are the same I.D.


If I had to choose between the 2, I'd do the BE Rampage.

mfllood3800 - What insert system is used on those 4mm arrows? Does victory offer an insert system similar to the Easton Deep Six? Or is it some kind of outsert that you then put the Rayzor collar over?

I just purchased a pack of the Rayzor collars for a couple of Carbon Injexions I had moved on from. It still requires use of Deep six broadheads though. Is the setup you use compatible with standard broadheads or deep six as well? I really liked the arrows but the front of the shaft was a concern for me as I had snapped broadheads when I had some hard hits. Im hoping adding that Rayzor collar will make these a viable option for me again.

 

[Brendan]

Tried the Rayzor collars fit for my black eagle rampage 5mm arrows - the fit wasn't as tight as I'd hoped. There's visible play allowing the collar to rock back and forth and I got visible wobble in a couple heads I installed to test... Maybe they're better for other arrows, but a miss for these ones...

 

[mfllood3800]

Niceandkozy8- - What insert system is used on those 4mm arrows?
reply-These 4 mm , BEA X impacts are outsert only

Does victory offer an insert system similar to the Easton Deep Six? Or is it some kind of outsert that you then put the Rayzor collar over?
reply- outserts don't require a collar

I just purchased a pack of the Rayzor collars for a couple of Carbon Injexions I had moved on from. It still requires use of Deep six broadheads though. Is the setup you use compatible with standard broadheads or deep six as well? I really liked the arrows but the front of the shaft was a concern for me as I had snapped broadheads when I had some hard hits. Im hoping adding that Rayzor collar will make these a viable option for me again.
reply- the system I am using works with standard type broadheads

 

[Topo_trekker]

I use the victory spine calculator along with the gold tip foc calculator and adjust the numbers accordingly to get the specs spot on. Like literally .300 for 300 spine with a high foc. It works for all sorts of arrows and gets you right in sweet spot.

Did some testing on bone last week and the 300 rampages broke before the 300 fmj's or gold tip pierce. Broke multiple rampages testing. I've found anything that has 9gr or lower is on the weak side even with collars/outserts.

B.E. Rampage below. Arrow would explode on impact resulting in poor penetration, about half the broadhead length before it broke the bone. I found that the steel outserts would actually bend as well adding to the stress. The fmj's on the other hand would not bust but the front end would slightly mushroom with full penetration. Testing some grizzly sticks and deep impact 300s here soon.
.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kalandvogt]

I think the Xtorsion arrows aren't even on the market yet, but durability should be better than an FMJ, it isn't a "wrap" it's stainless steel fibers woven into the carbon weave. Should be an extremely durable shaft without taking a set like FMJs do.

Properly set up a micro arrow is just as tough as a 5mm shaft. Thicker wall is an advantage. Outserts have always been the issue but with the systems from Valkyrie and Ethics, that has pretty much become a moot point. I'll take a micro shaft over a 5mm shaft when wind is in play, or I want the absolute best penetration. Lots of guys are fans of each, it's personal preference, but I've built and sold a ton of both and they each have their place.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I was on the fence about the Valkyrie system until I missed a 3d target last week. I dead centered a tree and the arrow/components were all in good shape. I'm a believer now.

 

[Niceandkozy8]

Thanks for the info mfllod3800