Llama expenses

Joined
Aug 14, 2016
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1,451
Location
Great Falls MT
Kinda thinking about adding a couple llamas to my 2017 gear list. I'd be boarding them at the inlaws just north of town so while not right in my back yard I'd still be able to work them and take them on hikes in the summer.

I'm in Great Falls MT, who's near by for a breeder?

What do good llamas go for and what do I need to look for? Whats the average price per animal? How many years of hunting can you expect from one?

What are the yearly costs to keep a llama? My inlaws have pasture room for days. But I'd guess I'd be buying hay for the winter?

I don't mind a heavy pack but 98% of the time I hunt solo. So I'd like the help getting meat out for when the time comes. Also hauling some gear on the way in would be nice.

Thanks
 

slick

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Last edited:
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
397
Location
Idaho
As far as disease transmission here are some studies you can read:

http://www.fs.fed.us/qoi/documents/2009/CWGA-zpfile000.pdf

http://www.gallatinwildlifeassociat...f the experimental evidence_Wehausen_2011.pdf

In experimental pen trials there has been no disease transmission between llamas and bighorn sheep.

As for finding suitable pack llamas:

Don't buy just any llama, they are not all created equally. Some have alpaca ancestry for the purpose of wool production but this comes at the cost of packing ability. To be a reliable packer they need to have the right conformation. Take a look at the conformation guidelines at this website: North American Ccara Association (NACA) - Ccara Llama Registry for the working llama Maybe try renting llamas first to make sure they will fit into your hunting style.

I'd look into Wilderness Ridge Trail llamas in Idaho Falls or Bear Mountain Pack Llamas in McCammon Idaho. Both raise very good packers. Expect to pay $500-4000 for their llamas or from any other papered breeder.

I was able to find my llamas on craigslist. Using the information on the Ccara website I made a quick evaluation of the llamas build before buying them and so far the 3 I have are turning into good packers despite not having papered backgrounds. I paid $100 for one and got the other 2 for free. I regularly see llamas on craigslist that look good in the $200-400 range. I picked up one other free llama early on that didn't make the cut and once I got better stock I gave him away.

Beyond that you will need a stock rack or a trailer. A 2-horse trailer can carry 4 llamas. Llamas do best on grass hay which in my area is about $100/ton and to feed 3 llamas for the winter months I plan on 1.5 tons. Maintenance is pretty cheap; I shear my llamas every spring using Fiskars spring loaded scissors and trim their toenails 1-2 times per year using pruning shears.

The packing equipment (saddles/panniers, etc) will be costly but you can save money by building some of it yourself. I built my saddles and use army surplus duffle bags for panniers. There are some commercially available saddles and panniers; Wilderness Ridge has some good stuff.

Llamas can carry 25-30% of their body weight when well conditioned. Most llamas are going to weigh about 350 lbs so 80-100 lbs is about right. Most people won't put a full 30% on a llama until they are 4 years old and fully grown. They can pack into their late teens and live into the mid 20's.

Obviously llamas are not horses but they fit a niche that horses do not. They are far less maintenance and easier to handle for a beginning packer. If you do have a "rodeo" you're dealing with a 350 lb animal instead of a 1500 lb animal. I can pack out an elk with 2 llamas in one trip if I also carry some meat.

Check out the Wilderness Ridge Trial Llamas website they have a lot of information and I recently listened to this podcast: Ep 076: Comparing Pack Animals For Backcountry Hunting
In which the owner of Wilderness Ridge discusses at length the various aspects of using llamas.
 

wyodan

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Jan 11, 2013
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Llamas can carry 25-30% of their body weight when well conditioned. Most llamas are going to weigh about 350 lbs so 80-100 lbs is about right. Most people won't put a full 30% on a llama until they are 4 years old and fully grown. They can pack into their late teens and live into the mid 20's.

Obviously llamas are not horses but they fit a niche that horses do not. They are far less maintenance and easier to handle for a beginning packer. If you do have a "rodeo" you're dealing with a 350 lb animal instead of a 1500 lb animal. I can pack out an elk with 2 llamas in one trip if I also carry some meat.

Are you able to carry the elk bone in quarters? I've carried quarters that are 80+ lbs each, so it seems it would be hard to fit 2 on a llama.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
397
Location
Idaho
I usually do leave the bone in. For the last 5 years I have been weighing my quarters and none exceed 70 lbs for a hind quarter. That is bone-in withe lower leg removed. Even on the larger bulls they average 65 lbs bone in. For distances less than 2 or 3 miles (depending on the terrain)I will put the full bone in quarters on my llamas. For short distance they handle 120-130 lbs alright. If it is further than that then I will remove the bone and the shank meat to cut about 10-15 lbs from each quarter bringing me closer 100 lbs for 2 hind quarters. I can then either add those pieces to my load or the other llamas. Of course if you bone everything out it is easier to distribute the weight between animals and balance the loads.
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2016
Messages
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Also live in Great Falls and am looking at getting some llamas for extending my hunts. Cannot find anywhere to keep them, though. From everything I have read, Wilderness ridge Trail Llamas (they have a website- Google it) in Idaho have some of the best llamas. They rent and sell. I emailed them most of the basic questions you asked as well, I will see what they say.

I heard of some folks getting llamas on the cheap, like $100, and using them for stock. But I suppose everyone gets lucky once in a while, and a $100 stock animal is $100 for a reason, typically.
 

dvm_hunter

Lil-Rokslider
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Nov 6, 2015
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177
Location
Texas
I've also been looking to add Llamas to our farm. Not knowing anyone in Colorado I'm looking to pickup 4 to use to help with the work load. Llamas are easily cared for and dont require much in the way of veterinary care unless injured or sick obviously. I've had horses all my life and I know I am not willing to take them into the backcountry and rely on them for packing gear. I've never met a horse that's never had a bad day once in a while. I hate dealing with a 1000-1300lb pain in the arse, 300-400lbs is way more manageable in my opinion.
 

406

WKR
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
445
I got my four boys from a llama rescue. Not free, but "donation" was tax deductible. I found used tack on CL which is working for now while I figure out what I like and don't.

Biggest expenses for me have been fencing and building a good barn and hay room. And a good used horse trailer. All said I'm honestly about $10,000 into this when you add up all of the above. I started with nothing, if you have any of that stuff covered already your cost will be different. I also didn't spend that all at once, but over probably 6 months after saving all the previous winter.

Feed isn't exactly expensive. I've paid between $130-180 a ton, around 30-34 bales/ton. But you need a way to haul and store it. And of course a source for good grass hay. Alfalfa is too rich for them and can cause problems. So sourcing the right stuff is important.
My 4 boys go thru a bale every other day, so half a ton a month. They'd eat more if I let em, especially with this cold winter, they just want to lay in the barn and get fat.
Storage is an important concern. You need to be able to get through the winter and all the way into the first cut of the year. Every one will be running out in spring/early summer and it will be hard to come by.

I am new to this, only got them last summer. I didn't buy enough hay and almost ran out a couple weeks ago. I was able to locate two tons but really I'm going to need at least 1 more before the first cut this year. I didn't properly estimate how much they'd eat and didn't properly estimate how much room I needed for storage. I can pack 3 tons into the hay room, I should have made it at least 50% bigger.

Water is an issue, and a legit pain in the ass in winter. And they actually need more water in winter. They get alot of their water from what they eat, but this time of year their feed is bone dry. There are a ton of different options to deal with this but I mention it because it's something people don't really think about if their not used to dealing with stock and swapping frozen buckets multiple times a day gets brutal fast.

Not trying to discourage anyone, but definitely trying to discourage anyone thinking that they'll just buy some and turn em loose in the yard and things will be awesome. They don't need nearly the attention horses do, but you still have a responsibility here. This is in fact how many llamas end up at rescues, or worse.

And I haven't mentioned the time commitment required for training yet. It's not minor. My boys were between 1.5-3 years old when I got them and barely catchable. It was a long process building trust and teaching and learning. I definitely made a few mistakes that cost me time to overcome.
In four months I was at a point where I could catch, saddle, and lead them. But I didn't feel they, or me to be completely honest, were ready for the real thing yet so they didn't hunt this year. I wasn't willing to take the chance on worst case scenario alone with a string of four in the back country. But I can't wait for spring to start working them again. In the meantime they seem to now understand that I am their lifeline this winter and the bond with them has gotten pretty strong. They're my buddies, as much as llamas will be buddies with a human.

As said, I'm still figuring it out myself but would be happy to talk about what I know and really happy to learn from folks farther down the road than I am.



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406

WKR
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Nov 28, 2016
Messages
445
My boys wintered well. Spring harvest of poop is finally dealt with and some fence work and general cleaning.

School is back in session

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406

WKR
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Nov 28, 2016
Messages
445
Had a big wind event that messed up the barn room last week. Just got that fixed. After a couple training sessions it's clear that they're pretty much exactly where I left off last year. Just started in like it was yesterday.

Shots/worming/shearing updates to follow in a few weeks

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bowhunter

Lil-Rokslider
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Jun 11, 2012
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223
Location
Helena Montana
If you wanna listen to a podcast, South Cox interviewed the Witwer brothers who raise llamas and have started a llama rental business. Pretty good info.

Episode 53 of the Full draw Full time podcast.

Dan

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squirrel

WKR
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
324
Location
colorado
Most of the info above is correct, none is misleading, just keep in mind that they are all individuals and there is no "best way" nor any "absolutes". Walk before you run. Take one llama, empty on a hike and work your way up to 10 fully loaded in logical progression. or your rodeo's will be commensurate with your indiscretion!

I have 18 currently as a rental business and can't keep up with demand, especially during hunting season, every year i have more trained packers and every year I get further behind demand.

The sales market is a "sellers market" right now for trained llamas. It will be much easier to get un-trained stock if you can handle the training. You may have to kiss a few frogs to find your prince, it is worth it to me, to others it may make sense to write a big check up front and be good to go immediately.

Boarding at your in-laws is an AWESOME MOVE!! I hope you get away with it. (kinda like the best boat to fish out of...SOMEBODY ELSES'!!)

Llamas with summer grazing will need about a big round bale/animal to get thru the winter, our winter, anyway, which is damn harsh. Tack is a big expense, if you purchase outright, I make my own like is said above to help out, full set, new @ $225.

Don't get hung up on size, or papers, get hung up on calm well trained animals. Learn to cut wool, learn to cut teeth, learn to cut hooves, vet bills are non-existent after that, at least in our parasite free environs, elsewhere not so much.

Rent llamas and take a training clinic, you will thank me for this later, your animals will REALLY THANK ME !!

Carry as few bones as you can, it saves your animals and saves your EXPENSIVE panniers from cuts made by sawed edges.

Announce your llamas to oncoming horsemen on the trail. The life you save will be the other guys...
 
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