Kifaru vs Stone Glacier - Specifically fit and frame comparison

[R_burg]

I am comparing these two packs. It seems that when it comes down to it, both are considered the top tier for comfort and heavy load hauling ability. It is hard to differentiate between the two when it comes to reviews. Are there any main differences between the frame design or inherent comfort fit for body types I might be missing in my research? I'd love to try both on, but that isnt very realistic as these are boutique products from small companies.

One thing I noticed is in the SG fit video Kurt recommends that the shoulder pads hug the back of your shoulders, whereas Kifaru recommends there is some some space in between there after tightening the load lifters. This is how every hiking pack I have worn and my current pack is suggested to fit. I am curious why SG is different. Another thing is the lumbar area on the kifaru looks to be much bigger and beefier. Is that just pictures deceiving me, or is that a design difference? They both seem to have large sturdy belts, so that doesnt seem to be a big differentiating point.

Making this a little tougher is that SG has the new X-Curve frame, which a lot of people are raving about, but I havent read many comparisons to Kifaru for fit and load hauling ability. As I said, in general it seems people say both manufacturers frames haul loads very well.


My main concern is fit and comfort, especially when they are loaded up. The packs themselves arent a huge differentiating point to me. Both SG and Kifaru have pluses and minuses in my mind when it comes to the bag itself, and I think I would be happy with either of them.

 

[Bubblehide]

I have an SG. I have never worn a Kifaru, but I have hunted with guys using them. Your right, both SG and Kifaru users rave about them. My impression about the new X-Curve, is that is is similar to Kifaru's form fitting frame, while Kifaru's new ultra-light frame is similar to SG's traditional frame. I cannot comment on Kifaru, as I have never hunted with one. But the vast majority of people are happy with either that they chose. I picked up a second Sky Archer with frame, from a friend down sizing due to moving out of state. I'm considering parting with it, and picking up a Kifaru, just to compare the two for myself.

My guess is that there are plenty here that have both, or have tested both, that can provide much more info. But there are also plenty of Roksliders in Az, you might want to reach out and see if there are guys close to you, that would let you try their pack. I'm pretty sure you would be able to try out all the different frames with a little effort.

 

[R_burg]

Thank you. Great point as well. If anyone is in the general Phoenix area and has a Kifaru or SG that they wouldnt mind letting me try on, please let me know.

 

[oldhorse]

R_burg, where do you live in AZ?

 

[LBFowler]

The main difference used to be that the Crux was flat and the kifaru had curved options, but not no more.

You are correct on the kifaru lumbar pad being larger, whether that is good or bad depends on preference and body type. Myself the smaller the lumbar pad the better, so If I had to choose one I'd go with the SG personally. I currently own a gen 1 duplex and have only tried on a crux frame briefly.

I believe the kifaru frame is much more modular with nothing but attachment loops everywhere, while the SG is more meant to set up a certain way. I'd go so far as to say Kifaru: more modular/versatile, SG: more streamlined/nuanced.

 

[R_burg]

R_burg, where do you live in AZ?

Phoenix area... Not Phoenix proper, but still.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I've used both quite a bit and for me the Kifaru is more comfortable. I haven't tried the new X-curve frame though and I think that one would fit me better. These are both good choices as stated above and you really have to try them yourself to decide which is "better".

 

[tttoadman]

I have both. I find the fit and comfort to be basically the same for me. I agree that the Kifaru is built to be more modular due to all the attachment points. The SG is definitely more streamlined to compress. I have found that I need to carry more weight than most on my shoulders instead of bearing all the weight on my hips. My hips just wont tolerate it. I really like the webbing on the Kifaru belts. I started out really liking the ability to slide stuff on the 2" SG belt, but over time I think the fixed webbing is the way to go. The SG is setup with a load shelf. Most of the Kifaru are built to put a dry bag inside the big bags. I have done both. They both work. i wouldn't make that a deciding factor.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I have also owned both (2 different Kifaru frames, SG Crux and I should be getting in a X-Curve later this week), the Crux is much more comfortable on me than either of the two Kifaru's I've owned, and I'm hoping that the new SG frame will be even better. Fingers crossed, but either way, I really like my Crux frame.


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[Kurt]

R burg,
This is Kurt Racicot with Stone Glacier, just wanted to answer your question in regards to shoulder strap fit. While I can’t speak to the different methods of pack fitting for other manufacturers, I can give you a little background on our philosophy of full contact with the shoulder straps. In short, it comes down to the numbers of weight distribution. There are limited square inches to transfer all pack weight to the body, on a SG medium belt this is 205 square inches. If the shoulder straps are set to wrap the shoulders, this gives another 56 square inches of possible load bearing surface, an additional 25%. Of course this will vary slightly depending on the size of the individual and shoulder shape. In conditions where it is a long, possible multi-day pack, carrying all weight on the hips can become uncomfortable over time for some people (like myself.) By having the option to shift weight to the shoulders when needed, you can take some of the stress off the hips. How much weight is comfortable on the shoulders is up to personal preference, some don’t like any weight on the shoulders, some prefer a substantial amount on the shoulder. I prefer between 10-20% as an estimate, weight can be shifted from the belt to the shoulders using the lower webbing adjustment on the lower portion of the shoulder straps. Tighten (pull down) for more weight on the shoulders, loosen to transfer back to the belt. For an example, if packing a 100 pound load, if I transfer just 7.5 pounds to each shoulder I have decreased the load on my hips by 15%. If we crunch the numbers, that is approximately .41 pounds per square inch on the hip belt area, and just .27 pounds per square inch in the shoulder straps. For me I know I can carry 15 pounds on my shoulders all day without fatigue, so this helps reduce hip/lower lumbar fatigue over time. With loads over 100 pounds, this option can be even more apparent.

I don’t advocate every customer set up the weight distribution on the shoulders, however it can be a necessity for those who get hip/lumbar fatigue with a heavy backpack. The key to the system is knowing that you can adjust the pack where 100% of the weight is on your hips via the belt, or transfer weight to the shoulders if that provides more overall comfort. This weight shift is done by simply adjusting the lower shoulder strap webbing, which can be done with the pack on while walking down the trail. The option of transferring weight to the shoulders is not possible if the shoulder straps are not in contact with the shoulder.

I hope this helps clarify our fit video, thanks for your interest and please feel free to contact me if there are any questions I can help with.
Best,
Kurt

 

[snowcamoman]

Are there any main differences between the frame design or inherent comfort fit for body types I might be missing in my research?

I've had a couple different Kifaru frames (Bikini & New Hunter Duplex) and a couple of SG frames Krux & XCurve. For me, it all came down to how the hip belts fit with big loads. For big load hauling comfort, the new SG XCurve is the ticket on me. My waist is in the 30-31 inch range typically, but during a hard alpine hunt, can drop to 29 or so inches. There just isn't much buffer around my waist for cushioning a big load. The new belt on the XCurve with the dual straps allowed me to really customize the amount of pressure above and below my illiac crest. This kind of adjustment allowed me to get the pack to ride perfectly and consistently comfortable with 100 plus pound loads.

One thing I noticed is in the SG fit video Kurt recommends that the shoulder pads hug the back of your shoulders, whereas Kifaru recommends there is some some space in between there after tightening the load lifters.

Kurt did a great job explaining the distribution of weight over the shoulder pads. I too prefer a decent amount of weight on my shoulders when I'm doing serious hiking and weight hauling. When a big load is distributed on my shoulders, it's much more comfortable when the shoulder strap wraps and makes full contact with my shoulders and back. Both my hunt partner and I ran new Kifaru's last season for sheep and we had some stability issues with the frames wanting to shift on us in nasty terrain. We worked on adjusting load lifting angles and strap adjustments to get them to suck down flatter onto our backs, but there seemed to consistently be a gap that was allowing the bag to have a lot of movement. With the newer XCurve, the frame really seems to suck down onto my back and hold tight, no matter the weight or terrain.

Another thing is the lumbar area on the kifaru looks to be much bigger and beefier

You are correct about the lumbar pads. The Kifaru has a large and padded lumbar pad compared to the SG. I had a couple of issues with the lumbar pad rubbing a raw spot on my lower back at times with the Kifaru. I was able to adjust the pad in the field and make that issue go away. I know Kifaru sells different lumbar pad sizes, so that might make that a non-issue. With the SG, the pad can be adjusted by putting varying levels of foam into it if you want. SG sets them up and I didn't need to add or change anything with the XCurve. On my older Krux, I added a little extra foam and it worked fine in the lumbar support and comfort department.

Both the Kifaru and SG are top of the line frames from solid companies with excellent customer service. It all comes down to how a frame and suspension system will fit your body. That becomes even more true when you want to haul serious loads. Most frames can haul up to 70 pounds pretty comfortable. It seems like once you start pushing above that weight and hit the triple digit range is where things will really need to be dialed in. For me, the XCurve does an extremely good job of hauling a big load well. One day my buddy and I were hauling out deer and camps on our backs and he had on my Barney's frame. We traded up frames later in the day and he wouldn't give me the XCurve back. That's a pretty solid testimony to the comfort level of the new XCurve I thought.

 

[R_burg]

Thanks for the input everyone. As you guys said, it just seems like it comes down to the user, which is what I expected. Everyone has good things to say about both bags. Justin vs AK Troutbum is a great example, each of you have experience with both suspensions and really prefer one to the other, while tttoadman likes them both, haha!

I had a couple people contact me to let me try on a Kifaru (thanks guys) and both should work to give me an idea. Neither are 26" stays with a Medium belt, so if you have that exact setup and are local and wouldnt mind letting me try your bag on, please let me know. Also, if anyone has a SG bag and frame I could try on, please let me know. Nobody locally has contacted me with a SG as of yet.

One thing I can say, when it comes down to the bag itself, I think I might be talking myself into the SG more than the Kifaru, which surprises me. I like the lighter weight and some of the little features SG has (sealed seams on zips, weapon sling configuration, etc), but most importantly I like how streamlined they are in bivy mode. The additional pockets you can add to a Kifaru are also a selling point, but less so than a bag that 'feels' like a smaller bag in bivy mode.

R burg,
This is Kurt Racicot with Stone Glacier, just wanted to answer your question in regards to shoulder strap fit. While I can’t speak to the different methods of pack fitting for other manufacturers, I can give you a little background on our philosophy of full contact with the shoulder straps. In short, it comes down to the numbers of weight distribution. There are limited square inches to transfer all pack weight to the body, on a SG medium belt this is 205 square inches. If the shoulder straps are set to wrap the shoulders, this gives another 56 square inches of possible load bearing surface, an additional 25%. Of course this will vary slightly depending on the size of the individual and shoulder shape. In conditions where it is a long, possible multi-day pack, carrying all weight on the hips can become uncomfortable over time for some people (like myself.) By having the option to shift weight to the shoulders when needed, you can take some of the stress off the hips. How much weight is comfortable on the shoulders is up to personal preference, some don’t like any weight on the shoulders, some prefer a substantial amount on the shoulder. I prefer between 10-20% as an estimate, weight can be shifted from the belt to the shoulders using the lower webbing adjustment on the lower portion of the shoulder straps. Tighten (pull down) for more weight on the shoulders, loosen to transfer back to the belt. For an example, if packing a 100 pound load, if I transfer just 7.5 pounds to each shoulder I have decreased the load on my hips by 15%. If we crunch the numbers, that is approximately .41 pounds per square inch on the hip belt area, and just .27 pounds per square inch in the shoulder straps. For me I know I can carry 15 pounds on my shoulders all day without fatigue, so this helps reduce hip/lower lumbar fatigue over time. With loads over 100 pounds, this option can be even more apparent.

I don’t advocate every customer set up the weight distribution on the shoulders, however it can be a necessity for those who get hip/lumbar fatigue with a heavy backpack. The key to the system is knowing that you can adjust the pack where 100% of the weight is on your hips via the belt, or transfer weight to the shoulders if that provides more overall comfort. This weight shift is done by simply adjusting the lower shoulder strap webbing, which can be done with the pack on while walking down the trail. The option of transferring weight to the shoulders is not possible if the shoulder straps are not in contact with the shoulder.

I hope this helps clarify our fit video, thanks for your interest and please feel free to contact me if there are any questions I can help with.
Best,
Kurt

Kurt, thank you for the technical explanation, that is exactly what I was looking for. I will take you up on your offer to reach out to you for a couple of questions, so expect a PM. If that is not the best way to contact you, please let me what is.

 

[Olson]

If you are up in the Prescott area sometime soon let me know, I have a Kifaru Hunter 26" frame/suspension you could check out.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I just wanted to echo a couple things others mentioned, because it sounds like our experiences are extremely similar with the SG frames.

R_burg I'd encourage you to get the back profile thing established - both the SG and Kifaru systems give you straight or curved stay options, which will make a huge difference.

- for me, I need curved stays, otherwise I need a giant lumbar pad to soak up the extra space between my lumbar area and pack. Without a curved stay, I just can't get enough contact on a lumbar pad to make heavy loads comfortable. And giant pads really bother me.

- the dual 1" straps on the X-Curve frame are a game changer as far as fit goes, for me. The ability to adjust how the belt loads your hips really helps under extreme weights. Between that and the new foam, it's not surprising so many people are raving about that new frame.

- I would echo what Kurt mentioned about how much weight your hips vs shoulders can take, I'm in that same boat, where taking almost all of the load on my hips is killer, especially after packing for a couple hours. For me, that X-Curve frame really improved the comfort of the harness system. The sleeves on the frame for the shoulder straps are lower, which helps get a better fit on the upper back for someone with a shorter torso. I struggled with that using the Krux frame.

- you consistently read that the Kifaru belt is the best, and cups your hips extremely well. Same goes on that torso pad. My point being, that stuff is like shoes as you've seen from everyone's feedback on the 2 systems.

- I love the load shelf and strapping to the SG packs - totally a personal preference, but one of the bigger differences from the Kifaru system for sure.

Good luck with you decision, hope you find what you're looking for. It's a lot easier to decide with the info other members have posted here, all around good feedback either way you decide to go!


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[sr80]

I had a MR back in the day, and got rid of it to try and stone glacier a few years ago. Then i wanted to try a kifaru because i am a pack whore - tried both frames and multiple bags, i couldnt find a bag i really loved..well im back to stone glacier. In my opinion kurt's bag designs cannot be beat. And ive never had a pack frame that has as much adjustabilty to dial in as the krux or x -curve. Shoulder straps can be moved inwards or outwards to the sides of the frame, or angled with ease. torso adjustments are infinite. The lumbar pad can be easily customized to your body simply by opening up the back side and adding or removing foam. Nobody else offers that. Kifaru lumbar pads are a lot bigger - but you also hear a lot of people complain that their lower backs are rubbed raw from them, sure you can order a different lumbar pad, but being able to open it up and ad or remove foam while on the trail is a lot more convenient.

 

[R_burg]

If you are up in the Prescott area sometime soon let me know, I have a Kifaru Hunter 26" frame/suspension you could check out.

Thank you for the offer. I will PM you if that is going to be the case.

 

[R_burg]

I just wanted to echo a couple things others mentioned, because it sounds like our experiences are extremely similar with the SG frames.

R_burg I'd encourage you to get the back profile thing established - both the SG and Kifaru systems give you straight or curved stay options, which will make a huge difference.

- for me, I need curved stays, otherwise I need a giant lumbar pad to soak up the extra space between my lumbar area and pack. Without a curved stay, I just can't get enough contact on a lumbar pad to make heavy loads comfortable. And giant pads really bother me.

- the dual 1" straps on the X-Curve frame are a game changer as far as fit goes, for me. The ability to adjust how the belt loads your hips really helps under extreme weights. Between that and the new foam, it's not surprising so many people are raving about that new frame.

- I would echo what Kurt mentioned about how much weight your hips vs shoulders can take, I'm in that same boat, where taking almost all of the load on my hips is killer, especially after packing for a couple hours. For me, that X-Curve frame really improved the comfort of the harness system. The sleeves on the frame for the shoulder straps are lower, which helps get a better fit on the upper back for someone with a shorter torso. I struggled with that using the Krux frame.

- you consistently read that the Kifaru belt is the best, and cups your hips extremely well. Same goes on that torso pad. My point being, that stuff is like shoes as you've seen from everyone's feedback on the 2 systems.

- I love the load shelf and strapping to the SG packs - totally a personal preference, but one of the bigger differences from the Kifaru system for sure.

Good luck with you decision, hope you find what you're looking for. It's a lot easier to decide with the info other members have posted here, all around good feedback either way you decide to go!

I had a MR back in the day, and got rid of it to try and stone glacier a few years ago. Then i wanted to try a kifaru because i am a pack whore - tried both frames and multiple bags, i couldnt find a bag i really loved..well im back to stone glacier. In my opinion kurt's bag designs cannot be beat. And ive never had a pack frame that has as much adjustabilty to dial in as the krux or x -curve. Shoulder straps can be moved inwards or outwards to the sides of the frame, or angled with ease. torso adjustments are infinite. The lumbar pad can be easily customized to your body simply by opening up the back side and adding or removing foam. Nobody else offers that. Kifaru lumbar pads are a lot bigger - but you also hear a lot of people complain that their lower backs are rubbed raw from them, sure you can order a different lumbar pad, but being able to open it up and ad or remove foam while on the trail is a lot more convenient.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

MT_Wyatt: From reading Kifaru's stuff, I assume I am a curved back, but I reached out to Kurt for more info from him. I still have not found anyone local with a SG, and even if I did I doubt they would have the Xcurve. I also like the load shelf and I really like how much thought, at least it seems to me, that SG puts into their bivy mode.

SR80: The fact the SG's suspension seems to be much more adjustable hasn't really been brought up a lot, thank you for mentioning that. I will have to look more into it and ask Kurt.

 

[Tex68w]

SG for function, Kifaru for form. I tried a few Kifaru packs and ended up with a SG and the X-Curve. IMHO there isn't a more comfortable or well thought out bag/frame out there for my particular needs (curved back and injured lower lumbar).

 

[eagle#eyes]

you anywhere out east?

Thanks for the feedback guys.

MT_Wyatt: From reading Kifaru's stuff, I assume I am a curved back, but I reached out to Kurt for more info from him. I still have not found anyone local with a SG, and even if I did I doubt they would have the Xcurve. I also like the load shelf and I really like how much thought, at least it seems to me, that SG puts into their bivy mode.

SR80: The fact the SG's suspension seems to be much more adjustable hasn't really been brought up a lot, thank you for mentioning that. I will have to look more into it and ask Kurt.

 

[Stid2677]

Forgive me if this has been covered and I missed it, but the SG X-Kurve is lighter than my Kifaru EMRII by over 2lbs. That is significant weight when doing remote hunts. I own over 1/2 a dozen Kifaru packs and frames, they are all well built,, I might even dare say over built. Mil spec one might say. SG has a proven track record to be tough enough, without being over built. The new belt as mentioned locks in like no other I have tried, no slip at all. I'm 150lbs 30 inch waist, this kind of puts me between a small and medium with kifaru belts. The small does not wrap around me enough and the medium will bottom out as I drop weight on a long hunt. The comfort of the frame is awesome, but try as i might I have always got a bit of belt slip with a load. The SG belt with the side straps lock around the iliac crest and the non slip belt keeps it there. I really love the EMRII bag, but I believe I will be Okay with my Sky7400 bag too. The X-Kurve can also be adjusted for another user quick and easy, kifaru is easy too, but the advantage goes to SG.

Steve