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  1. #21
    Senior Member Nick Muche's Avatar
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    That's odd with regards to having to track bow shot bears a long distance. All the bears we kill with an arrow die much faster than the ones I've seen shot with a gun. A well placed arrow usually means a dead bear is 30 yards or so... just my experience of course.

    Don't categorize all bowhunters into the same pile when it comes to their proficiency... most of your clients have likely never seen a bear, let alone a grizzly bear within bow range. That likely has something to do with them being able to remain calm enough to make a lethal and accurate shot.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Daniel_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Muche View Post
    A well placed arrow usually means a dead bear is 30 yards or so... just my experience of course
    Hard to be 100% confident in a client who is a complete stranger.

    Even Ted Nugent lost a wounded bear..
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed—with the necessity always present of being on time and up to our work; of providing for the dependent ones; of keeping up, catching up, or getting left. “Alas for the lifelong battle, whose bravest slogan is bread.
    G.W. Sears

  3. #23
    Senior Member Nick Muche's Avatar
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    And we all know Ted is the best of the best.

    If you are not 100% confident in a client who is a complete stranger, why take that complete stranger on a hunt for arguably the most dangerous animal in North America?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Daniel_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Muche View Post
    And we all know Ted is the best of the best.

    If you are not 100% confident in a client who is a complete stranger, why take that complete stranger on a hunt for arguably the most dangerous animal in North America?
    Because that's what the client is paying the guide to do..
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed—with the necessity always present of being on time and up to our work; of providing for the dependent ones; of keeping up, catching up, or getting left. “Alas for the lifelong battle, whose bravest slogan is bread.
    G.W. Sears

  5. #25
    Senior Member Nick Muche's Avatar
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    Without being rude, I'd like to ask what your point was exactly?

    A complete stranger can mess up with a rifle just as easily as he/she can with a bow.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Daniel_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Muche View Post
    Without being rude, I'd like to ask what your point was exactly?

    A complete stranger can mess up with a rifle just as easily as he/she can with a bow.
    No offense taken, simply tying it back to Jakes comment regarding unwillingness to contract bowhunters. You can't be confident in any means the client chooses to hunt with, because at the end of the day proficieny isn't in the contract. Just the service.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed—with the necessity always present of being on time and up to our work; of providing for the dependent ones; of keeping up, catching up, or getting left. “Alas for the lifelong battle, whose bravest slogan is bread.
    G.W. Sears

  7. #27
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    I bow hunt, I know how it works. I've just never had a bow hunting client make a lethal shot yet. On anything. Some guys got it, some don't. But once a bad shot does happen I'm the one that's gotta clean it up. 99 percent of rifle clients are fine with me backing them up. 99 percent of bowhunters don't want bullet holes in their bear. The last four bears died within 10 yards of being hit, I backed up two just to insure. Some die quicker, some slower. A broad head in the right place is wicked deadly, no doubt about that. No one can argue that.
    A rifle hunter mess up like say is typically happy with another rifle backing them up. A bow hunter wants to let his bear run and see what happens...then you find out if it was a mess up.
    Can't think of anything clever to put here

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_M View Post
    Because that's what the client is paying the guide to do..
    Agreed.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Nick Muche's Avatar
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    Of course the client is paying the guide to do that... that was my point, the weapon doesn't matter and most all of them will be complete strangers.

    Regardless, my comments stemmed from Jake saying his bears won't come in if he sits closer. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. As of now, he doesn't really have a reason to sit any closer in that his clients are fidgety, jet legged rifle hunters

    Let's be honest, most guides don't like taking bowhunters because it's harder Both in making them happy with tagging a critter and keeping up success rates.

    If a bowhunting client has an issue with their guide backing them up on dangerous game after a piss poor shot, then I'd question their ethics. A record book is not as important as making it home safely after the hunt is over. Now... if the shot is good and a rifle goes off, then I'd be upset with the guide, I've heard stories of this before. I suppose each case is totally different, who knows.

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  11. #30
    Senior Member Daniel_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Muche View Post
    Of course the client is paying the guide to do that... that was my point, the weapon doesn't matter and most all of them will be complete strangers.

    Regardless, my comments stemmed from Jake saying his bears won't come in if he sits closer. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. As of now, he doesn't really have a reason to sit any closer in that his clients are fidgety, jet legged rifle hunters

    Let's be honest, most guides don't like taking bowhunters because it's harder Both in making them happy with tagging a critter and keeping up success rates.

    If a bowhunting client has an issue with their guide backing them up on dangerous game after a piss poor shot, then I'd question their ethics. A record book is not as important as making it home safely after the hunt is over. Now... if the shot is good and a rifle goes off, then I'd be upset with the guide, I've heard stories of this before. I suppose each case is totally different, who knows.
    Agreed 100%.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed—with the necessity always present of being on time and up to our work; of providing for the dependent ones; of keeping up, catching up, or getting left. “Alas for the lifelong battle, whose bravest slogan is bread.
    G.W. Sears

  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Muche View Post

    Let's be honest, most guides don't like taking bowhunters because it's harder
    .
    I don't mind taking bow hunters. I take a lot of them, actually. And I don't even hunt over bait. It's really not any harder to escort an archer than it is a rifleman.

  13. #32
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    I don't mind bow hunters either. Most understand their limitations and what that does for success. I will however turn someone down if I don't think my area/timing isn't going to be good for what they are trying to do.
    Can't think of anything clever to put here

  14. #33
    Senior Member Beendare's Avatar
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    reword

    Good thread....appreciate the commentary by some quality guys.

    I don't have anywhere close to the experience with hunting grizz bears as some of you...but I have spent a lot of time over the last 35 years in the woods watching them and hunting blackies.

    Jakes comment on the individuality of bears is absolutely dead on IMO. In fact, I can't think of a species I hunt that is as unpredictable as bears. They do crazy stuff. Now you might not see that sitting water, but in open country, they do.
    _____

    As to guiding; The reason I got out of the guiding business is you get some real nimrods- and that was all firearms guys. I became worried about my personal safety. You just can't pick your clients as a guide...if you can, then you have the best of both worlds.

    I think if I was a guide like Jake my requirement for bowhunters would be;
    Your bow must be tuned to where your BH's are hitting with your FP's. Then at least you get a guy that has a better understanding of his equipment.
    “It takes no more time to see the good side of life than to see the bad.” ― Jimmy Buffett

    "You don't drown by falling in the water; you drown by staying there.” ― Edwin Louis Cole

  15. #34
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    Nice bears!

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