Is this enough Pistol?

[FlyGuy]

Better build up courage and use it one handed, with a bear on top of you you gonna need to use it one handed and not drop it when the gun goes off.

At that point I wouldnt need to be to accurate, just push it in and pull the trigger! Or maybe at that point I should just aim it at my own forehead instead! HaHa!

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[BRWNBR]

Lol I didn’t say be accurate I just said to be sure you don’t drop it!

 

[jhm2023]

I think the better questions would not be who is carrying a 10mm but who has used one in a DLP situation. In my opinion the 10mm is on the light side but double the amount of rounds could offset that I suppose. I wouldn't carry a glock though, maybe a 1911 in 10mm. Everyone I know and have talked to puts the 44 as the minimum. Most people that I know and have seen totting around 10mm pistols are military guys that are just up here for a short time. My wife and I had an encounter with a sow and a 7.5' boar last spring. The sow charged and she took 4 rounds of 300 grain a-frames from my 454. The boar came charging in right behind her and one round anchored him on the spot. IMHO the pros of a revolver are the durability vs. say a plastic pistol. Not saying you should carry a 454, just seek out the opinions of those who have used the cartridge/gun in question as opposed to the people who just carry it. To each their own though.

 

[BRWNBR]

I DLP’d
A bear with a 10mm one night. Gut shot him in the dark. Found him the next morning and finished him off. . Phil shoemaker DLP’d one with his 9mm.

 

[jhm2023]

My concern for a DLP handgun would be having enough power to break down a bear that is in full charge at 15 yards or less, not so much shooting a bear broadside that is just circling camp or something to that effect. I personally want a gun that will penetrate the skull no matter where I hit it in the head, or bust through the front of the chest/shoulder and make it through to the vitals breaking every bone in its path. With the boar I mentioned in my DLP situation the 300 grain a-frame entered the front of his left shoulder and exited just in front of his right hip. I would attribute him dropping instantly to busting his shoulder to pieces and shocking his system. Perhaps I'm over thinking it, but I've killed close to a dozen bears and thankfully only 2 were DLP.

 

[frankrb3]

All the cool kids are DLPing and I don't even know what it means.

 

[jhm2023]

Defense of Life and Property. It's a term used by Alaska department of fish and game. I wouldn't say it is cool though. One of the less pleasant experiences in my life.

 

[ramont]

USGS regulations for their survey teams recommend at least a shotgun or a .30 caliber magnum rifle as the first choice and no handgun smaller than a .44 mag.

For those that believe that a high capacity semi-auto is an advantage, you need to do a little more research on actual attacks rather than reading junk from forum experts. The average bear attack will happen in less than 3 to 5 seconds. Most victims won't even know that the bear is close until it's within 30 yards and on a dead run toward you, that bear will cover the distance in under 3 seconds. How many well placed shots can you put in to 6 inch circle in 3 seconds- with your adrenalin pumping, wearing a pack, probably turned slightly away from the bear? I figure I might get two good shots off and I'm a pretty good pistoleer. So if I can get two shots off I want them to make really big holes in that bear and get to places where they'll do the most damage.

The biggest caliber that I can handle within these parameters is a .454 but I prefer my .44mag with heavy bear loads. As for the 10mm vs. .44mag argument- seriously? How can you possibly believe that a 10mm is as effective as a .44mag bear load? HSM makes bear ammo and their 10mm load produces 481 ft/lbs of energy compared to their .44mag load that produces 1075 ft/lbs of energy, and their bear loads are hot enough that they are recommended to be shot in only the strongest model handguns.

I understand that some people can't handle a big magnum pistol, and in that event pick the biggest gun you can handle accurately, but don't kid yourself about your gun's capabilities, if it's smaller than a .44mag then it's just not going to be as powerful as a .44mag. It takes a lot of energy and mass to break a bear's heavy bones so when my life is on the line I want as much bullet weight and energy as I can handle. If you feel comfortable leaving your bear gun in the truck or carrying a 10mm because it's lighter then you must not be very concerned about the bear threat and in that case why carry anything more than bells and bear spray.

 

[colonel00]

Just curious, how many well placed shots can you put on a quickly approaching target from 30 yards or less in 3 seconds with a .30 caliber magnum rifle? We can even give some helpful assumptions that the rifle is in hand and not on a sling and that it doesn't have a scope for faster target acquisition.

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[jhm2023]

I agree with ramont.

I don't put myself in the bigger is better category when it comes to hunting firearms. However I'll take the largest handgun I can manage when it comes to handguns for bear defense. I'm talking about true bear defense, not you got scared because a bear was kind of close snooping around.

Think of a 1,000 plus pound animal who's sole purpose in life is killing things as big as moose running at a dead sprint with the intent of killing you and it is less than 30 yards away. Now that you have that in your mind, do you really want a plastic framed 10mm in your hand?

 

[BRWNBR]

I’ll take my 10mm. Truth be told 1000lb bears are not the norm. Coastal that’s a 9’ plus bear. That’s a big target. It’s those 300lb 3 and 4 year old bears that don’t know better that are the problem! But my 10mm isn’t a plastic one.

 

[frankrb3]

Defense of Life and Property. It's a term used by Alaska department of fish and game. I wouldn't say it is cool though. One of the less pleasant experiences in my life.

It was a joke man. Sorry about your experience. Thanks for explaining DLP though.

 

[jaredgreen]

I’ll take my 10mm. Truth be told 1000lb bears are not the norm. Coastal that’s a 9’ plus bear. That’s a big target. It’s those 300lb 3 and 4 year old bears that don’t know better that are the problem! But my 10mm isn’t a plastic one.

Why is everyone concerned with what the pistol is made of? Unless we are planning on pistol whipping a bear as a plan b, it just needs to go boom...


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[BRWNBR]

Boom is a good thing! I don’t care what it’s made of! The plastic ones don’t fit my tiny hands.

 

[lyle_destroys]

Easy there. I didn't tell you to change anything or even say that you were in the wrong. I just asked a question.

Regarding law enforcement officers, how much training to they go through to be able to make those quick decisions?

Not enough

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[AKBorn]

I think 2 hostile Alaskan grizzlies have been killed already with 10mm this year, one on Afognak and one on JBER if I am recalling the story correctly...

 

[Wrench]

View attachment 82242

Don't miss. 10mm 1911 with 200xtp at 1250fps went 16" including in and out of the skull. Shot was 10 feet or slightly less.

 

[Jacques Etcheverry]

I personally carry a 454 casual ( always been better with a wheel gun)

Now for my wife I did some research and what got me set on her hand gun- tarus tracker .357 was it had 7 shots and was very accurate.
One night at a local Trappers meeting Joe Nava was present discussing firearms ( he’s an instructor) when asked about side arms his response was the only thing he carry’s is a .357 - there was a question about it be too light for bear- he told of working on the Delta bison project and how that .357 dropped a few bison charging.

No matter what side arm you pick, shoot it a lot. Get comfortable using it.


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[mcseal2]

I have never shot a bear and don't claim to know anything about them so take this for what it's worth.

I have had to euthanize some cattle over the years on the ranch for one reason or another. It's not something that I enjoy doing, but it is part of ranching. I have learned that the minimum handgun that I am comfortable using is a 4" barrel 357 magnum and a 158gr JHP or preferably JSP of reasonably stout construction. Those will penetrate the skull from any angle every time. An older bull or cow has a pretty stout skull.

I'm fairly sure that if I had Buffalo Bore or similar ammo in my 9mm or 45 instead of FMJ I'd have seen better results penetrating bone. I never planned to use the semi-auto guns, I just ended up in a spot where they were what I had at the time and needed to end an animals suffering. The frontal shot didn't break the skull either time, but did stun the animal enough that I could get in position to place a shot behind the ear pretty quick. After deciding I would only use the 357 I started carrying one in each of my ranch trucks. The 3" barreled S&W 60 failed to penetrate the skull first shot once on an older cow with the 158gr ammo, so I quit using it also. I assumed it just didnt' have quite enough velocity in the short barrel, but it could have been a freak deal. Either way this is a job I want done as painless as possible so I'm sticking with what I know works. Since going to 6" Ruger Security Sixes I found reasonably priced at pawn shops in both trucks I've went years without an issue. I won't ever go lighter again. It's an unpleasant part of my job to have to end the suffering of our stock and when it is necessary I want to do it as quick and painless as possible.

I just wanted to share my experience. It's a different animal under far different circumstances, but it's still penetrating bone with a handgun.

I do hunt in black bear areas and have plans to hunt in grizzly areas. I carry a handgun when scouting and sometimes when also carrying a rifle. I'm currently using a S&W 386XL Hunter in 357. It's just over 30oz, as light as the 4" Ruger SP101 it replaced. It is a full size 6" barrel 7 shot revolver that I can shoot well. I grew up putting bricks of 22LR through a Ruger Single Six and when I draw a revolver my muscle memory has me cocking the revolver in the process. The 357 puts my thumb in the right position to do this. I have a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" 44 magnum that is just a little to big a revolver for me to do this as quick and smooth. It's a great revolver and I can shoot it well just not as fast. I had my gunsmith smooth up the trigger and install Meprolight Tritium night sights on it to make it a great sidearm for bear country. Practicing with it I just can't put the first shot on target as quick or reliably as I can with my 386. I don't have huge hands, I wear a L in most gloves. I put the Redhawk on Gunbroker recently. I shoot 1911's quite a bit and may end up going to a 10mm 1911 at some point, but I don't know. They are considerably heavier than my 357 and I don't know that I'd every be quite as quick and accurate as I am with the 357. I don't shoot striker fired handguns as well as I do 1911's or revolvers with their crisp triggers so I'll stay away from the Glock or new Springfield XD 10mm. I spend to much time shooting rifles with 2lb triggers and just don't do nearly as well with the long spongy triggers on striker fired autos.

 

[Wrench]

View attachment 82284

Here's the recovered 10mm 200xtp after the trip. It did about 16" in and out of the skull and down the spine.