Is this enough Pistol?

FlyGuy

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Looks like I will be going on my 1st bear hunt next Spring in MT. Ive never bothered with carrying bear spray or a sidearm before, but for this hunt we will be in an area on the edge of grizzly country.

I've heard that the 10mm is the preferred caliber for bear defense, but I don't own one. I do have a 40 caliber Glock and my wife has a small hammerless 357 revolver. Are either of these good enough, or should I use this as an opportunity to expand my firearm collection to include the 10mm?

Also, are there specific rounds that I should be using?

I'm super excited about this hunt, but I have SOOOOO much to learn about it. Total newb here so on bear hunting and on hunting in grizzly areas.
 

Bynumlife

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If you were only worried about black bear protection, I’d say at .357 or 10mm would be fine. From every Alaskan i know, they would just laugh at you if you brought one of those for grizz defense.

I’m in the similar boat. I’m moving to northern Idaho in grizzly country and would love to buy a 10mm but am going to step up to what most people who live in that country carry for grizzly, the 44 mag. Buying the Smith & Wesson 629.


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EastMT

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There are a lot of people here in AK carrying 357 or 10 mm including bear guides. I carried a smith 44 for a long time and just switched to a glock 20 10mm. After comparing 44 and 10 mm ballistics, I decided they were close enough to justify 15 rounds vs 6.

A 357 with some heavy solid copper Barnes bullets or hard cast will do just fine if you don't want to spend a bunch of money.
 

Bynumlife

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There are a lot of people here in AK carrying 357 or 10 mm including bear guides. I carried a smith 44 for a long time and just switched to a glock 20 10mm. After comparing 44 and 10 mm ballistics, I decided they were close enough to justify 15 rounds vs 6.

A 357 with some heavy solid copper Barnes bullets or hard cast will do just fine if you don't want to spend a bunch of money.

That’s encouraging. Every trip I’ve made everyone just nothing less than a 44. I️ really want a 10mm though like the OP.


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GLB

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A lot of Alaskans including myself carry the 10mm for protection. It's very popular up here and with the right loads it has potintual. I carry the Glock 20 with my handloads anytime I'm in the woods, wether I'm bowhunting or hiking.
 

Rifles And More

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It has taken a few trips for me to be comfortable in grizzly country. Comfortable, but still alert.

My very first trip included a bear that had been spooked by other hunters and ran right into us on his escape route. Once he had our wind he turned and ran. Still too close for a guy from Kansas who had never seen a Grizzly. After that experience I was sure there was a bear behind every tree...just waiting for me.

A few trips later, and a few more bear sightings has really calmed me down. Keep a clean camp, stay alert and you should be fine.

Now, to answer your question...

I carry spray and a 10mm Glock 29sf. I would say if you want to buy a new pistol, get one. If you want to use the 357, do it. I would be sure to shoot the 357 with full-house loads first, a small hammerless can be a handful.

Pistol play with a bear is a bad spot to be in.
 

Gr8bawana

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I wonder how many of those carrying a .357 or 10mm have actually used one to stop a grizzly. I personally would want the additional power of the .44 magnum if I had to rely on a sidearm.
 

Felix40

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That 357 is gonna be tough to hit anything with under stress imo. I hate to speculate on stopping power but a 44 isnt enough gun to stop a big game animal unless you hit cns. I cant see going bigger unless its a gun you are comfortable with. I would much rather carry a high capacity/very shootable 40 than an akward hand cannon. Shoot whatever you take a lot before you go.
 

GLB

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I wonder how many of those carrying a .357 or 10mm have actually used one to stop a grizzly. I personally would want the additional power of the .44 magnum if I had to rely on a sidearm.

It's really about hit probability with enough gun to penetrate the skull. We did a test with this on a moving/charging target. Myself and a friend of mine both of us are Firearms Instructors for our departments, used Glock 20 10mm, smith Wesson 44 mag and Ruger 454 casull. We did the test both from guard and from the holster. The Glock 10mm with full power handloads came out on top with 4-5 accurate hits on the charging target compared to 2 with the 44 and 454 with not so accurate hits. The charging target starts a 10 yards and comes to you in 2.5 seconds.
But I will also say this that any handgun is a poor choice to stop a large Brown Bear, but it could do the job and better than nothing.

I spend a lot of time on the ranges and I see people come up here with the biggest caliber pistol with the shortest barrel they can find and can not
hit a thing with it yet claim it's their Bear protection. To stop a charging bear you need to penetrate the skull or be able to break the spine and do this while he's moving and you are moving and under serious stress.
 
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It's really about hit probability with enough gun to penetrate the skull. We did a test with this on a moving/charging target. Myself and a friend of mine both of us are Firearms Instructors for our departments, used Glock 20 10mm, smith Wesson 44 mag and Ruger 454 casull. We did the test both from guard and from the holster. The Glock 10mm with full power handloads came out on top with 4-5 accurate hits on the charging target compared to 2 with the 44 and 454 with not so accurate hits. The charging target starts a 10 yards and comes to you in 2.5 seconds.
But I will also say this that any handgun is a poor choice to stop a large Brown Bear, but it could do the job and better than nothing.

I spend a lot of time on the ranges and I see people come up here with the biggest caliber pistol with the shortest barrel they can find and can not
hit a thing with it yet claim it's their Bear protection. To stop a charging bear you need to penetrate the skull or be able to break the spine and do this while he's moving and you are moving and under serious stress.

Amen, animal don't watch TV they don't know they are supposed to die when they get shot. Hitting a vital might kill them but they might kill you on the way out
 

EastMT

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I wonder how many of those carrying a .357 or 10mm have actually used one to stop a grizzly. I personally would want the additional power of the .44 magnum if I had to rely on a sidearm.

44 mag Barnes Vortx 225 grain out of a 6.5" barrel are traveling at 1235 fps at the muzzle,

buffalo bore 10 mm 220 gr out of a 4.6" glock 20 are traveling at 1140 fps. 100 fps, for 9 extra rounds, I will take the trade off.
 

frankrb3

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I carry the 5 shot .44 magnum S&W model 69. I always have it, even during rifle season. I also always carry bear spray. I'm not scared of bears, but I need to have options because I primarily hunt alone. I also hike in the dark a lot when my scoped rifle is strapped to my pack and worthless. My recommendation would be get the 10mm. It sounds like you have more experience with lower powered semi automatic handguns which means you will shoot the 10mm better than a .44 magnum. Remember, thousands of hipsters hike all over grizzly bear country all year long with nothing but pepper spray. So get the gun you want and bring bear spray as well. It's not much extra weight and you may find a situation where bear spray is better than shooting at a bear or vice versa.
 

colonel00

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If you are carrying spray and a gun, at what point are you going to decide which to use? I sure hope it isn't in those few seconds you might have before you have a large animal occupying the same space as you.

I think the best advice is to take whatever gun you know the best, have shot the most and can operate effectively from muscle memory in a stress situation.
 

spaniel

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I am a huge 10mm fan overall. I own two, and one is my CCW, a 1911 Commander.

In grizz country I carry a SW 329PD (44Mag lightweight). In a legit grizz charge you won't have time to get many rounds off, and the CNS is the only target which will save you from a mauling. I consider the 10mm on par with the 357Mag, and I do think it CAN do the job. But I feel I can control the 44Mag and it is a significant step up.

The bear caliber threads amuse me. For so many years the 44Mag was the big dog and did just fine. How with the 454 and 50s somehow the 44 will bounce right off a bear. I've seen too many big steel guns left in the truck after the first day in the field, they don't hit very hard from there.

So me, I have a SW 329 44Mag and a Taurus Ti 41Mag as bear guns. If you're going to carry 10mm make sure you have a source for hardcasts, I would NOT want hollowpoints.
 

frankrb3

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If you are carrying spray and a gun, at what point are you going to decide which to use? I sure hope it isn't in those few seconds you might have before you have a large animal occupying the same space as you.

I think the best advice is to take whatever gun you know the best, have shot the most and can operate effectively from muscle memory in a stress situation.

Doesn't take as long as you think, situation really decides for you.

If I looked up to see a bear charging at me my hand is gonna go to my gun. If a bear is just too close for some reason or was mauling someone I was with I would probably try to spray it instead of shoot it.

Makes you wonder how all our law enforcement officers do it when they have to choose between a gun, taser, and pepper spray.

To each their own but I won't be changing what I carry for bear defense because of your comment.
 
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FlyGuy

FlyGuy

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Well, the one I'm most comfortable with is the 40 cal. I've had it for about 30 years and wore it on my hip for work and did a fair amount of quick draw and hip shooting training, with re-qualifications every 6 months. BUT... I don't hear anyone saying that they would carry that for bear. Guess it's a better caliber for stopping bad guys than for charging bears.

The 357 is my wife's. It's a compact model designed for concealed carry . (We lived in Baton Rouge back when Derrick Todd Lee was running around killing somebody about every other day). Of the two, I'm leaning more towards it b/c of the increased power and light weight. Seems like it would slip easily into a chest holster. I don't know the gun, but that's easy enough to fix. I've honestly only shot it once with 357 shells loaded. I remember it having a significant amount of kick. Snub nose is going to be tough to be accurate with though. I have some pretty serious doubts about that.
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colonel00

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Doesn't take as long as you think, situation really decides for you.

If I looked up to see a bear charging at me my hand is gonna go to my gun. If a bear is just too close for some reason or was mauling someone I was with I would probably try to spray it instead of shoot it.

Makes you wonder how all our law enforcement officers do it when they have to choose between a gun, taser, and pepper spray.

To each their own but I won't be changing what I carry for bear defense because of your comment.

Easy there. I didn't tell you to change anything or even say that you were in the wrong. I just asked a question.

Regarding law enforcement officers, how much training to they go through to be able to make those quick decisions?
 

SheepDogRob

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Makes you wonder how all our law enforcement officers do it when they have to choose between a gun, taser, and pepper spray.

Depends on the perceived threat. I think you hit it on the head. My mind usually goes immediately to my pistol then most times I make the decision that OC or Taser or hands on is more appropriate. If your first thought isn’t “is this a deadly threat” you may be too late and dead already. Watch the bears behavior just like we watch a suspects hands... the hands/claws are what will kill you.

On another note, I don’t carry bear spray, I carry. River Alaskan in .454 but, I’ve used OC on human types and it works great. Just don’t be down wind...



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frankrb3

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Easy there. I didn't tell you to change anything or even say that you were in the wrong. I just asked a question.

Regarding law enforcement officers, how much training to they go through to be able to make those quick decisions?

I know you didn't tell me to change, but after your added comment about hoping I'm not making a decision while a large animal is occupying my space I Just wanted the OP to know that it's Ok to carry both options in bear country, especially if he's never carried a handgun while hunting before. I also want him to know he doesn't need military or law enforcement training to decide which bear deterrent he's going to use. Common sense will prevail and the situation will dictate.
 

Mike7

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The argument about getting confused between pepper spray and a pistol seems not to hold water in reality. This real world experience from these hunters would have me carrying both in areas of high grizzly numbers. Hunters Talk About Their Grizzly Bear Encounters and Being Attacked

And if penetration to the central nervous system is the name of the game when it comes to all pistol rounds and stopping a charging bear, then my non-scientific, non-peer reviewed journal, hillbilly type testing with using wood as a substitute for bear skull/bones (just because wood is readily available) has shown me that 9mm Doubletap +P 147 gr flat point FMJ rounds will likely out penetrate every "non-hardcast/non-FMJ" round you can find out of a bigger badder caliber.

In my hillbilly testing, even the Underwood Penetrators (which clearly from gel tests reliably penetrate soft tissue well while doing more tissue damage than a hardcast) were poor at penetrating wood compared to hardcast bullets of the same caliber and similar weight and velocity. But this makes Physics sense given that the the various non-hardcast bullets through different mechanisms are all leaving more of their energy in the substrate (in this case wood) than hardcasts do.

And I think the US military has clearly shown repeatedly that the "average" shooter is more accurate with lighter lower recoiling rounds. And the comment above about many not having a big 44mag, etc. with them because it was too much of a pain to carry and so left at the truck or kept in the pack is accurate as well.

Based upon all of the above, taking your 40 cal semi-automatic that you can shoot well and loaded with heavy for caliber hardcasts, and carried with bear spray, should have you being one of the most well prepared people in the woods.
 
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