Merino vs Synthetics worth it?

[byz250f]

Looking for a second set of pants for a fall archery elk hunt and trying to decide if I should add another pair of synthetics or go with the First lite Obsidian pants. You guys think the merino wool is worth it from a scent perspective?

 

[bsnedeker]

Looking for a second set of pants for a fall archery elk hunt and trying to decide if I should add another pair of synthetics or go with the First lite Obsidian pants. You guys think the merino wool is worth it from a scent perspective?

For me I'm not worried so much about my pants for whatever reason. I wear merino boxers and since those don't get too rank I don't worry about my pants too much. I think merino tops are much more important.

 

[HeadnWest]

I would agree with bsnedeker, plus synthetic pants are going to be more durable and dry quicker when you are walking through wet grass in the morning.

 

[5MilesBack]

If you're elk hunting, you're sweating. You can't cover your entire body enough to keep your scent down, that's why we play the wind. I prefer my base layers be merino because they wick the sweat away, and so I can't smell anything. But for pants, it won't make much difference. I worry more about durability and comfort.

 

[IDHUNTER]

I've always worn synthetic pants and never noticed them stinking. Shirts are a different story...synthetic stinks on the first day whereas merino is funk free for multiple days.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

I wore a pair of KUIU attack pants for over 10 hikes in 90 degree heat without washing or wearing boxers. They had no noticeable smell besides the gooch area that merino boxers will take care of. I was impressed.

 

[byz250f]

Thanks guys. I have two pair of the Prana Zion stretch pants and loved them when I did a 5 day spring bear hunt. Im considering saving $180 and not getting the FL Obisidian pants for my fall elk hunt and just wearing my two prana pants.

 

[optimusprime]

I just got my Obsidians size Large today. I did nearly a year of research on them before buying them. $180 is a lot to spend on a pair of pants you can't even try on. I wore them for 10 minutes and decided they're going on the classifieds. To me, they don't really feel any different than a normal pair of cotton twill pants. Not stretchy at all. If you are stepping over anything anything about 18" high they will bind up on you, at least they did for me. Seemed very warm and didn't seem to breathe any better than the Nomex pants I wear for work and I was sweating in them just standing in my house. Lastly, they fit like a pair of MC hammer pants, and I have fairly large thighs. I'm sticking with my Tiburons. 4 years with them and I have been through every snag and bush you can think of without so much as a tear. Bombproof to be sure. And they are barely any heavier than the underwear I wear underneath. Just thought you should know a tidbit about how they feel. I really wish I could make them work after all this waiting but they won't be finding their way into my bag . Its just my .02 though. Tons of people have the opposite experience as me.

 

[Owenst7]

I've got four backpack hunts (elk, mulie, and bighorn) and I can't count the number of days chukar hunting and various recreational backpacking trips on a single pair of the Wrangler tech pants. I wear them to work in construction too. Most comfortable pants I own and they've outlived every pair of jeans I've had.

 

[byz250f]

I just got my Obsidians size Large today. I did nearly a year of research on them before buying them. $180 is a lot to spend on a pair of pants you can't even try on. I wore them for 10 minutes and decided they're going on the classifieds. To me, they don't really feel any different than a normal pair of cotton twill pants. Not stretchy at all. If you are stepping over anything anything about 18" high they will bind up on you, at least they did for me. Seemed very warm and didn't seem to breathe any better than the Nomex pants I wear for work and I was sweating in them just standing in my house. Lastly, they fit like a pair of MC hammer pants, and I have fairly large thighs. I'm sticking with my Tiburons. 4 years with them and I have been through every snag and bush you can think of without so much as a tear. Bombproof to be sure. And they are barely any heavier than the underwear I wear underneath. Just thought you should know a tidbit about how they feel. I really wish I could make them work after all this waiting but they won't be finding their way into my bag . Its just my .02 though. Tons of people have the opposite experience as me.

wow great timing for you to write this review. Man that is a bummer. Can you not return them? Just curious whats your height/weight? Im 6'0 195. Sounds like the fit on these is really odd and not ideal for a hunting scenario. Whats odd to me if Merino wool pants were so good why is it that only First lite makes them....no other technical hunting gear company makes a merino wool pant that I can find.

 

[Formidilosus]

Quite a few of the guys I hunt and work with have used/use Kanabs and Obsidians from 85 degrees down to single digits. Merino works great, but I expect that the reason other companies haven’t jumped on it is durability. I got less then 30 days of wear on two Kanab 2.0’s before they popped seams, blew the crotch out, stitching let go, etc. Same for a 2017 Obsidian.

The Kanab 2.0 pants were awesome in design, pocket layout, cut, fit, and the temperature regulation of the merino is excellent. But people that probably need to put the fork down... complained enough that they changed the fit- MC Hammer pants is about right. FL replaced the pants that failed, but the new fit is so baggy and loose they’re unusable for me.

 

[byz250f]

Quite a few of the guys I hunt and work with have used/use Kanabs and Obsidians from 85 degrees down to single digits. Merino works great, but I expect that the reason other companies haven’t jumped on it is durability. I got less then 30 days of wear on two Kanab 2.0’s before they popped seams, blew the crotch out, stitching let go, etc. Same for a 2017 Obsidian.

The Kanab 2.0 pants were awesome in design, pocket layout, cut, fit, and the temperature regulation of the merino is excellent. But people that probably need to put the fork down... complained enough that they changed the fit- MC Hammer pants is about right. FL replaced the pants that failed, but the new fit is so baggy and loose they’re unusable for me.

great info...so you your 17 obsidians didnt fit well or last either? What a mess...a lot of money for a heavy pair of odd fitting and not durable pants.

 

[optimusprime]

I suppose I could return them, but I might as well sell them to someone else at a little bit of a discount so someone else can benefit a little. I'm 6'1 and around 220lbs. Waist is perfect. Couldn't ask for a better fit there, but the legs are SUPER baggy. But in the interest of full disclosure, I prefer a more athletic (aka skinny jean) cut. My Tiburons fit just right and don't bind at all, even though they are only 2 way stretch as opposed to 4. The best fitting pant I have tried is actually the Sitka Ascent. Love the fit of those. They are a tad more slender through the leg but ridiculously stretchy. I like how the skinnier leg doesn't offer too much more fabric to get caught on stuff. As for the reason only FL makes them, I would venture to guess that its mostly because they specialize in Merino. I'm sure the pants would be great in an alpine or high country setting where the temps hover around 60, but for me and where I hunt, usually around 80-95 degrees, they just don't makes sense. I love the idea of pants not smelling bad, which apparently they excel at, but for me, the extra weight and warmth just isn't worth it. I can just add a long pair of merino bases under my Tiburons and be just fine in the chilly mornings and nights. I love Merino so I just wanted to love the Obsidians but it just didn't pan out that way. They do have buttons to roll the legs up though, which is a nice plus. Honestly, if they only changed 2 things about the pants, I would probably try them again- 1) hip and thigh zips for dumping heat and 2) a more athletic cut, as opposed to 1990's era hip hop swag. The vents could mitigate most of the heat problems and the cut could make wearing them a little less annoying to me. But lots of people like them and I wouldn't ever expect them to change just because of one dude. And for the record, I think every pair of hunting pants should have hip or thigh vents. They are game changers.

 

[optimusprime]

Here is a comparison between the Obsidians and my Tiburons. Pics don’t really do the difference justice but they feel much different.

 

[Formidilosus]

great info...so you your 17 obsidians didnt fit well or last either? What a mess...a lot of money for a heavy pair of odd fitting and not durable pants.

The 17’s Obsidians were looser, which to me is worse, than the Kanab 2.0, but the 18’s are ridiculously baggy. I’m 5’9”, 180-185lbs, relatively low body fat, 32-33in waist. In other words a nearly perfect “medium”, yet they fit through the legs and crutch baggier than most larges in other pants. The fit reminds me of 90’s era Realtree and Mossy Oak hunting pants from Walmart.


For durability, yeah they had problems. Don’t know about this years, as they’re too bad to wear.

The Kanab 2.0 cut, design and pocket layout was nearly perfect. Unfortunately the writing was on the wall. I heard only one of two things about the Kanabs- either you had guys who were fit saying “FINALLY someone designed pants right”, or guys who were fat saying “they’re skinny jeans”. A company can’t please both fits unless they market two different cuts. Since there are more people that are over weight than fit- companies get more feedback from them and consequently start making baggier and baggier clothing. This isn’t meant to be a jerk, it’s just reality.

 

[5MilesBack]

Since there are more people that are over weight than fit- companies get more feedback from them and consequently start making baggier and baggier clothing. This isn’t meant to be a jerk, it’s just reality.

This is odd, because most of the hunting pants I've seen in recent years are more like the skinny jeans you see around. Even those like EB Guide Pro's fit like skinny jeans, and at 6'6" 220 I am skinny, and even up-sizing them fit tight.

 

[Owenst7]

This is odd, because most of the hunting pants I've seen in recent years are more like the skinny jeans you see around. Even those like EB Guide Pro's fit like skinny jeans, and at 6'6" 220 I am skinny, and even up-sizing them fit tight.

I'm 5'10", 160 lbs, 32x32, and can't wear a lot of slimmer cuts because of my thighs. The EB pants fit me awesome, the Prana Brions are a bit tight for reference.

I wonder if part of the issue is that the fit in the thighs, inseam, and waist don't all increase proportionally. In other words, a guy with similar build to me that is 6% taller may not necessarily have a 6% increase in all measurements. Perhaps the sizing scale is flawed and only nails the average size and gets screwy the further you get from there.

 

[Formidilosus]

This is odd, because most of the hunting pants I've seen in recent years are more like the skinny jeans you see around. Even those like EB Guide Pro's fit like skinny jeans, and at 6'6" 220 I am skinny, and even up-sizing them fit tight.

At 6’6” you are so far outside the norm that any clothing with a cut and design that works for the vast majority of males (5’7”-6”), won’t work for you and vice versa- any cut that will work for you, is ridiculous for the vast majority of people that are between 5’7” and 6’0”. What most companies wrongly try to do is to be everything, to everyone.

In the hiking community it’s generally true that clothing is more “skinny”, but in the hunting clothes world not so much. Some start off with athletic fit clothing (Firstlite), then gradually shift to fit the desires of the masses- loose. I’m not talking about the ones’ies or two’sies that have over muscled thighs; the vast majority of hunters (just as the population as a whole) are clinically overweight, with a significant portion being clinically obese. Right now there are two main hunting companies that offer athletic fit clothing- Sitka and Kuiu. And not all of their items are.

Instead of saying “skinny jeans” let’s say what it really is- athletic fit. That means that the clothing is cut to be as form fitting as possible, while not restricting movement. As long as the pants aren’t restricting movement, I want them to have the least amount of bulk and loose fabric as possible, a high gusseted crotch, no big cargo pockets, and nothing to snag on.


Firstlite ought to come out with a Kanab 3.0 pant that combines their merino and the pocket arrangement of the Kanab 2.0, with the cut, design, stretch panels, and sewing of the Kuhl Radikl.

 

[optimusprime]

At 6’6” you are so far outside the norm that any clothing with a cut and design that works for the vast majority of males (5’7”-6”), won’t work for you and vice versa- any cut that will work for you, is ridiculous for the vast majority of people that are between 5’7” and 6’0”. What most companies wrongly try to do is to be everything, to everyone.

In the hiking community it’s generally true that clothing is more “skinny”, but in the hunting clothes world not so much. Some start off with athletic fit clothing (Firstlite), then gradually shift to fit the desires of the masses- loose. I’m not talking about the ones’ies or two’sies that have over muscled thighs; the vast majority of hunters (just as the population as a whole) are clinically overweight, with a significant portion being clinically obese. Right now there are two main hunting companies that offer athletic fit clothing- Sitka and Kuiu. And not all of their items are.

Instead of saying “skinny jeans” let’s say what it really is- athletic fit. That means that the clothing is cut to be as form fitting as possible, while not restricting movement. As long as the pants aren’t restricting movement, I want them to have the least amount of bulk and loose fabric as possible, a high gusseted crotch, no big cargo pockets, and nothing to snag on.


Firstlite ought to come out with a Kanab 3.0 pant that combines their merino and the pocket arrangement of the Kanab 2.0, with the cut, design, stretch panels, and sewing of the Kuhl Radikl.

True enough man! Less fabric is best fabric. I wouldn’t mind a skinny jean Obsidian but I would guess the extra fabric is to get the pants to “flow”over thighs since the fabric itself doesn’t lend itself well to just stretching with the body as say, the ascent pant does. This might be their remedy to blowing out seams. If they just throw enough fabric into the pants and make them baggy enough so that they can’t catch and thus rip out.

 

[5MilesBack]

Instead of saying “skinny jeans” let’s say what it really is- athletic fit.

No, I mean "skinny jean" fit. Those EB pants wouldn't even get over my skinny thighs. Then upsize them and they fit over the thighs, but the waist is then way too big. One of the biggest problems I've seen in most all the modern recent pants is a rise that's 3" shorter than every other pant I've ever worn in the past, so they are literally right up against the crotch along with a low waistband. That's messed up in any description.......athletic or skinny.

And the Prana's were like that, the UB Costco pants were like that, Cabela's newer Lightweight Microtex was like that, the EB Guide Pro's, Kryptek pants........etc. I accept that I have to buy three pair in order to cannibalize one pair to get two to fit in length, but the way they're all being made these days.........they could come with a 38" inseam, and they still wouldn't fit right.