Insulated Pants: Kenai vs Super Down

[JDZ]

I'm considering some zip-off insulated pants. Mainly looking at Kuiu, since their offerings are lightweight, compressible, and have full zip-off capability. But, I could be convinced to consider others.

I've talked to Kuiu, and they say the intended use is under an outer layer. Well, that's not how I see myself using it. I see myself zipping them on over my other pants when I stop to glass, then taking them off when I start to move again.

So, for sitting on the ground, should I go with down or synthetic?
Should I size up one from what the size chart suggests?
Or buy my size so I have the ability to use as intended?
Will the short inseam of the Kenai be annoying?
Will the Super Down tear and leave me with wet knees and butt?

 

[fngTony]

I learned to love the 3/4 length.

I here you on durability. Cs flat out told me neither is intended as an outerwear but the kenai material is the better of the two.

My kenai pants can roll up then compress to slightly bigger than a soda can. (Medium)

Originally I planned on buying the uncompahgre pants too then sell which ever one I didn't like. I have decided to just stay with the kenai. For work and around town they offer more uses than something designed to go over.

Size up to be safe.

If you already have a durable rain pant that can be your shell over either one.

Mine can fit over everything. Lets say you are tending camp on chilly morning, wear them over then it's simpler to shed them when you start hiking. Just don't expect to bushwack in either of them.

The kenai pants are kinda in a class by themselves, being breathable and quite.

If leaning towards the superdown also consider the kelvin, uncompahgre pants. Some mountaineering brands have down and synthetic pants too.

Fair warning! No fly on the kenai! Not deal breaker but every time I come closer to making one myself.

 

[warrior80]

I have some Superdown pants and have used them as you described. They work fine. I didn't size up and they fit over my pants fine, but you could if you want to play it safe. I usually have my glassing pad that I sit on, so not as much of a concern with durability. I don't have the Kenai, but interested in them. Especially if you do any hiking with them on. I love the Kenai jacket.

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[MuleyFever]

I bought the Kenai pants for Jan AZ, mainly as a safety in case it got cold at night. As far as size if you are on the border size up, not down. The zip off design is slick and can easily be on or off by dropping your outer layer to your boots. I went with the Kenai because things happen fast and if I had to be on the move with them on the Kenai breath. The Kenai are lighter than the down and since they will probably be in the pack a lot that was a factor. If you will use them as an outer l really see advantages to both. The Kenai wild be more durable, the down will block the wind better. The short inseam is awkward but important to the intended function.

 

[fngTony]

To give you an idea of the kenai length, I'm 6'2" with 33 inseam they come down just past my calf. My boots come up just over my ankle bone. This is perfect for the intended zip off feature as I don't have to pull them out of my boot to release the zipper. If you have a shorter say 30 inseam they will closer to normal base layer length. One nice touch is at the bottom of both legs there is a small stretch panel to accommodate for bigger calves.

 

[JDZ]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I wear 31 waist in street clothes, and Kuiu size 32 pants fit me perfect (except the inseam is too short). I have fairly big thighs and hips for my otherwise-slim build. I also wear size M merino zip-off bottoms and Chugach rain pants.

With my merino base on, I don't think there's a lot of room under my pants for more insulation, without it compressing to the point it isn't doing any good. And, late season, I plan to wear a pair of Eddie Bauer fleece-lined Guide pants. They have just enough room for 145 merino underneath. So, I was thinking I'd size up to a Large for the Kenai bottoms to wear over my fleece-lined pants. Or, is that a mistake?

 

[fngTony]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I wear 31 waist in street clothes, and Kuiu size 32 pants fit me perfect (except the inseam is too short). I have fairly big thighs and hips for my otherwise-slim build. I also wear size M merino zip-off bottoms and Chugach rain pants.

With my merino base on, I don't think there's a lot of room under my pants for more insulation, without it compressing to the point it isn't doing any good. And, late season, I plan to wear a pair of Eddie Bauer fleece-lined Guide pants. They have just enough room for 145 merino underneath. So, I was thinking I'd size up to a Large for the Kenai bottoms to wear over my fleece-lined pants. Or, is that a mistake?

I think it was pods8? who gave a great discrpition why he had to size up. I can wear a medium base, medium kenai, 32 waist kuiu pants or 34 jeans all together plus either of my rain pants ( both are large non kuiu). I'm thin, you sound border line medium and large. Waist band is elastic and the velcro tabs can give or take about 1.5 inches. Maybe order a large, if too big send back and buy a medium from the outlet.

The kenai insulation is "springy" spiral continuous fiber, very impressed for a synthetic for regaining and maintaining loft. I got in my car wearing the kenai under jeans a down vest under a soft shell, car had sat for 3 days in single digits, leather seats. My back felt the cold through my clothes, my but did not. Not a apple to apple loft comparison but there was more of my weight to compress the kenai pants than the down vest.

 

[JDZ]

I think it was pods8? who gave a great discrpition why he had to size up. I can wear a medium base, medium kenai, 32 waist kuiu pants or 34 jeans all together plus either of my rain pants

Thanks again. Yeah, basing off pods8 description here: http://www.rokslide.com/forums/clothing/52114-kenai-pants.html?highlight=zip-off , he is about the same size in the body as I am with my clothes on. I would for sure be a medium, but I think I want to try a large based on that I think I want to wear it outside my clothes.

 

[JDZ]

I can wear a medium base, medium kenai, 32 waist kuiu pants or 34 jeans all together plus either of my rain pants

Can you wear your medium Kenai over your 34 jeans? Comfortably?

 

[fngTony]

Can you wear your medium Kenai over your 34 jeans? Comfortably?

Yep. Photo in this linked thread http://www.rokslide.com/forums/clothing/52114-kenai-pants.html

 

[JDZ]

Hmm. Maybe medium is the way to go for me. Then I could wear them as intended, or outside my pants.

 

[Benjblt]

I learned to love the 3/4 length.

I here you on durability. Cs flat out told me neither is intended as an outerwear but the kenai material is the better of the two.

My kenai pants can roll up then compress to slightly bigger than a soda can. (Medium)

Originally I planned on buying the uncompahgre pants too then sell which ever one I didn't like. I have decided to just stay with the kenai. For work and around town they offer more uses than something designed to go over.

Size up to be safe.

If you already have a durable rain pant that can be your shell over either one.

Mine can fit over everything. Lets say you are tending camp on chilly morning, wear them over then it's simpler to shed them when you start hiking. Just don't expect to bushwack in either of them.

The kenai pants are kinda in a class by themselves, being breathable and quite.

If leaning towards the superdown also consider the kelvin, uncompahgre pants. Some mountaineering brands have down and synthetic pants too.

Fair warning! No fly on the kenai! Not deal breaker but every time I come closer to making one myself.

Not trying to steal the thread but I've wondered about the Kenai sizing also. I'm a 32 waist but 34 in Attacks and 32 in Guide pants. I have slightly bigger than average thighs and big butt. If I'm going to where them underneath would I still go medium or large? . . I tried on the Peloton 130 baslayer leggings in Medium and they were too tight.

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[fngTony]

Not trying to steal the thread but I've wondered about the Kenai sizing also. I'm a 32 waist but 34 in Attacks and 32 in Guide pants. I have slightly bigger than average thighs and big butt. If I'm going to where them underneath would I still go medium or large? . . I tried on the Peloton 130 baslayer leggings in Medium and they were too tight.

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Never tried the peloton or merino base. I have no butt play it safe go large.

 

[JDZ]

Well, I ordered the size M Kenai pants after deciding that the manufacturer, and those that use the pants as intended, are probably smarter than I am. They came in the mail today. Not really sure what to think about them, yet.

I put on my size M merino zip-offs, then the Kenai pants, then my size 32 Tiburons. A little tight, but not too bad. Might be compressing the insulation a little more than I'd like. I put my size M Chugach rain pants over everything, and they fit decent. I probably would never wear the Kenai with my Tiburon pants, but I wanted to get a picture of Kuiu's intent.

Then, I put the Kenai over the Tibs. That works okay.

Then, I tried them with my fleece-lined pants. No way they're fitting underneath. I tried them over the top. Pretty snug from the knee down. Pretty snug in the hips and gonads. I'm not sure that'll work well. Chugach over the top is a little tighter than I'd like.

Then, with my merino still on, I tried the Kenai under the baggiest pair of pants I own--a pair of Kuhl Rydr pants in 32 waist. That worked fairly well, but I don't see myself ever hunting in these pants because they are cotton and loud and heavy. So, I put the Kenai pants neatly back into their packaging. I'm going to re-assess with fresh perspective tomorrow. Options are: keep the M; exchange for L; return altogether.

I've considered getting a pair of Kuiu Alpine or Chinook pants. I wonder how the Kenais would work underneath either of them. I've heard the Alpine runs a little big, so that would probably be okay. Not sure about the Chinook, except I know the Chinook has a micro fleece backing which might not play nice with the Kenai. Plus, I really don't need to spend more money on pants.

Random thoughts:
-7.9 oz on my scale with the tag attached. Sweet.
-The left leg has a left-handed zipper. Dumb. If you are unzipping with one hand, it doesn't matter. If you are zipping up with both hands, it'll piss you off when you go to start the zipper, because it's backwards.
-By Kuiu's size chart, I really don't see how a true Medium/34 sized person would fit into the M Kenai. This is really the first time I haven't been completely satisfied with the way a Kuiu piece fit me.
-I can't get to my pants pockets with my Kuiu Rain gear on. Why doesn't the Kuiu Rain gear have zippers that go all the way up to the waistband? Or better yet, separate at the waistband, like all their other stuff? Make it a double pull separating zipper. Might as well add velcro to it, too, because the Chugach are already loud as shit.

 

[fngTony]

Jdz, the rain gear zippers are probably that way to cut weight. I have two pairs of rain pants with double zippers and the waist band seperates. I find them a little cumbersome to put on as I'm fighting them from falling down until zipped.

You are probably between sizes. How well does the kenai fit over the merino before other pants? If good maybe go up a size on your normal pants. Or go large to wear on top, just don't sit on rocks with them.

 

[JDZ]

You are probably between sizes. How well does the kenai fit over the merino before other pants? If good maybe go up a size on your normal pants. Or go large to wear on top, just don't sit on rocks with them.

I think the Kenai fits well over the merino. Calves feel odd, but that's me getting used to it. I'm not willing to go up a size on my regular pants for a few reasons. 1. The pants need to fit me under normal use, and 2. I want my waist band to fit well. 3. I'm not going to buy special pants just to work with the Kenai.

 

[fngTony]

I think the Kenai fits well over the merino. Calves feel odd, but that's me getting used to it. I'm not willing to go up a size on my regular pants for a few reasons. 1. The pants need to fit me under normal use, and 2. I want my waist band to fit well. 3. I'm not going to buy special pants just to work with the Kenai.

Calve feel is an acquired taste. Good reasons to go large and wear over. This subject comes up a lot on various forums, quite a few wear them over and like it.

 

[Weekender]

Wore my Kenai pants quite a bit last year. Couple times under attack pants which worked but not ideal fit pretty snug. Really liked them under my Yukon pants. I use my Yukon pants as stand alone so there is plenty of room which worked great in snow and temps low teens. I know the alpine and guide pant both have more room which would probably accommodate them. They missed the mark on not having a zippered crotch since sometimes you wear them all day. Other then that I liked them, they worked exactly what I wanted them for.


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[JDZ]

Tried these with a fresh perspective today. They're just too tight over my merino to be comfortable. With no regular pant, they fit fine under my rain gear. But, I would rarely use them that way. They would fit better under pants without my merino, but I don't see using them that way, either. Plus, I really don't see myself dropping my pants to put these on and take them off all the time, not to mention doing bathroom business. I'm considering trying large, which would fit over my merino better, and would likely fit over my regular pants. Or, I might just return them and look for something different. I really think I would get along with the full length Super Down better. Now, I'm guessing Large would be the way to go.

 

[Weekender]

Tried these with a fresh perspective today. They're just too tight over my merino to be comfortable. With no regular pant, they fit fine under my rain gear. But, I would rarely use them that way. They would fit better under pants without my merino, but I don't see using them that way, either. Plus, I really don't see myself dropping my pants to put these on and take them off all the time, not to mention doing bathroom business. I'm considering trying large, which would fit over my merino better, and would likely fit over my regular pants. Or, I might just return them and look for something different. I really think I would get along with the full length Super Down better. Now, I'm guessing Large would be the way to go.

Sounds like a set of down pants are more what your looking for. Kenai are from more active insulation vs glassing pants. I have a feeling Kuiu is going to release a new down pant to go along with there new down jacket. Might be something to keep an eye on.


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