2018 for First Lite...30 new pieces.

[texag10]

I can understand the benefits of zip off base layers, but at the same time, Kuiu has inferior merino than FL and that's maybe the reason why FL doesn't offer it... yet. If the temperature swings that much to where you need to take off your base layer bottoms, then why wear a base layer bottom at all? Just start moving and you'll warm up pretty quickly. Wear the puffy pants if you stop and start glassing. One of the intended purposes of merino is regulating body temps. FL's merino in the hunting world is second to none. Zip offs somewhat defeats that purpose. FL's pants, obsidians and corrugates, are designed to regulate temps as well. I come from a backcountry snowboarding background and I typically forgo base layer bottoms because I'm hiking and overheat. With that said, I see the benefits of it and there's no need for the "zip off" camp to get salty over it. If Kuiu's zip offs work for you, then stick with it. That's my 2 cents.

Once again, companies can talk about various textiles working over a wide range of temps, but I have found that I am frigid in the morning and sometimes after sunset in just my normal pants, but will be absolutely roasting when the sun is out in full force. Multiple times I have dealt with this on hunts in Texas, where temp swings are generally not as pronounced. Puffy pants would be too warm and would get torn to shit walking through green briar and past mesquite, in addition to being heavier and bulkier than a baselayer. I have to decide if I want to be super cold, or be comfortable in the morning and then trying to move during midday and getting swampy and inevitably end up standing in some field with both boot unlaced and my pants on the ground and that baselayer around my ankles.

Edit: I know I can easily buy the kuiu offering. I have a merino 210 hoody from them and find it very comfortable and durable, but with some flaws in fit. I would rather buy from a company that actively promotes and advocates for public land and access for all. FL and Sitka do that, I haven't seen it from Kuiu. I've been very very happy with everything I've bought from them, but would rather spend my money elsewhere at this time.

 

[NDGuy]

Was there an estimate on price on the Catalyst? I am guessing $299.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I can understand the benefits of zip off base layers, but at the same time, Kuiu has inferior merino than FL and that's maybe the reason why FL doesn't offer it... yet. If the temperature swings that much to where you need to take off your base layer bottoms, then why wear a base layer bottom at all? Just start moving and you'll warm up pretty quickly. Wear the puffy pants if you stop and start glassing. One of the intended purposes of merino is regulating body temps. FL's merino in the hunting world is second to none. Zip offs somewhat defeats that purpose. FL's pants, obsidians and corrugates, are designed to regulate temps as well. I come from a backcountry snowboarding background and I typically forgo base layer bottoms because I'm hiking and overheat. With that said, I see the benefits of it and there's no need for the "zip off" camp to get salty over it. If Kuiu's zip offs work for you, then stick with it. That's my 2 cents.

I’ve been fortunate enough to use both the aerowool, pure first lite wool, kuiu original pure merino (185 weight I think?), and ultra merino (nuyarn) 145 weight. I see this “inferior” claim cited constantly, and while I would agree the FL textile is nicer, the perceived gap between the two is pretty small in my experience. Don’t take that as a slight against your post, I’ve just used both a bunch and wanted to clarify what I’ve seen in the field this year. Like or hate kuiu, their stuff generally doesn’t suck.

Durability, softness and dry time were all pretty damn close for me, the edge doing to FL in dry time (very much so) and softness. I’d choose aerowool for fabric, and that’s the one First Lite piece that I 100% loved the fit on.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dplantz]

I’m in the same boat regarding soft shells, I almost never use them. I wear midlayers of merino or polar tech then if cold enough I’ll throw on a puffy. If it starts raining or snowing then my lightweight shell goes on. Soft shells might work for those that don’t see much precip, but the ones I have usually stay home.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can agree with that. Before I saw the "lite" on Merino, the first piece I bought was the north branch jacket. Now I never wear it. If it was asat or cipher I might use it duck hunting, but the fusion is a little green for most of my hides.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[doverpack12]

Couple things:
Uncompagre is not going away it is a very different jacket than the Chamberlain. The Uncompagre features super breathable 100gm synthetic 37.5 insulation that works well for cold active hunting. The Chamberlain is based on 8000 meter type jackets. Very very warm but under 2 pounds. the goal was to make a jacket that was as warm as possible for glassing that is highly packable and light so it easily goes into your pack when you begin your stalk.
we are offering the Hallstead with a hood and without.
If any thing we are using more products with 37.5 tech. many more. The soft shell, two weights of aero wool, the down blend just to name a few.
As of late last year the Obsidions now feature a little spandex giving them stretch and durability by virtue of taking strain off of high stress seams.
Sorry no zip off bottoms this summer, but after reading this it is something we will build and test. One question. To me it seems a little weird to make them out of such warm merino. It would seem if you were on the fence between wearing LJ's or not you would want a thiner pair to start then be able to take them off as it warmed up or you has to put in a hard effort.
I hope this helps. thanks-Kenton

Thanks for listening Kenton. Lightweight would be more useful for me than heavierweight zipoff bottoms. Once I need heavier bottoms I tend to adjust to a heavier pant to help offset the need for heavier bottoms.

 

[ChrisS]

I wear my alleganys all the time. I don't hunt much, if ever, above 65F, but one those occasions when that's the daytime high, I just start with boxers on anyway.

Opinions that demand for certain products can be over estimated. I think they talked about that on the kifarucast where people were vehemently upset that certain lines were discontinued or products hadn't been made, but some units weren't selling at all.

 

[SUMMIT75]

I wear my alleganys all the time. I don't hunt much, if ever, above 65F, but one those occasions when that's the daytime high, I just start with boxers on anyway.

Opinions that demand for certain products can be over estimated. I think they talked about that on the kifarucast where people were vehemently upset that certain lines were discontinued or products hadn't been made, but some units weren't selling at all.

You make a very good point, this is one thing I have learned running a small outdoor business is you can not make every customer happy. I am sure it's even more of a challenge with larger businesses such as First Lite. I can however attest to their passion for listening to their customers input and concerns and adjusting their line accordingly. I started the First Lite Trader page on Facebook just because I love First Lite and wanted to sell/trade/discuss all things FL. Overnight it exploded and became a huge outlet that many of the key employees from First Lite frequented and paid close attention to our input. Heck the Catalyst Series alone is eerily what I have been talking about all last year. However you can not please everyone. I think it boils down to listening to the majority of your customers wishes, staying true to your companies passions and platform that it was built off of and what your brand mainly focuses on. At the end of the day I have no complaints with First Lite. I don't think they get nearly the credit they deserve for how far and how fast they have risen to be a pinnacle part in both performance wear and conservation.

Maybe one day we may see zip off base layers and I hope it serves those well who wish for it but I personally have never thought that is something I need. I have spent a great deal of my life doing mountaineering. High exertion climbs in varying temps ranging from 10-15k ft. I think once you fully grasp the science of layering you can mitigate most of your moisture/heat build up whilst leaving the base layer on. Heck my Mt Rainer climb in June will be rocking 100% First Lite base layers. Pretty much already sold all my Arcteryx and Patagonia merino wool. First Lite in my opinion is not only the best hunting brand merino but it has served me better than all my mountaineering brands as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[First Lite]

Real interested in the new down puffy! At 25oz its substantially heavier than my ~18oz Feathered Friends hooded Helios though. What is the down fill weight? Sorry, my question wasn't clear. How many oz of fill is what I am wondering about.

the chamberlain has about 330g/11oz of fill for a medium

 

[Kotaman]

MT_Wyatt

I'm the wrong person to ask, I hardly use the pit zips I have on the Jetstream or Kryptek Bora. I get hot very easy being a fat kid, Hell even when I was in great shape I run hot. So I will take the whole jacket off or like most days just start off in baselayers.

In reviewing the Bora I did use the pit zips while on several long hikes and there is no doubt they work.

But to your question. I think its cost and weight. Kenton can probably tell you exactly why they didn't use pit zips.


The reason I don't like wearing a softshells is the bulkiness. I always think, why the hell don't I just wear a puffy?? And that's the reason I like the Catalyst it feels very thin while wearing it, yet very warm. Hope that makes sense.

--


Speaking as "another fat kid", I run hot as well and either have the jacket on or off. The only time I use pit zips is on Rain Gear. I can't say I've ever used the pit zips on a soft shell, so for me the weight savings is worth it to NOT have pit zips on a softshell. My "go to" piece lately in lieu of a softshell has been the Sitka Kelvin Active. Best of all worlds for me. It's light, it breaths, its packable. Is there a similar product coming in FL?

--

 

[First Lite]

Pit zips or not. Great question. We go round and round on this. Pretty much all the high end hunting brands use YKK zippers. Their quality, consistency, and selection is hard to beat. That being said, all zippers, even the best, have inherent problems. They are heavier, louder and have many more moving parts than the fabric they replace. The version of the catalyst that is being tested is about the 5th incarnation of that piece. We started testing it in the fall of 2016. What we found was that after removing the laminate the breathability increased so much that for the very few times a tester wanted them it didn't warrant putting them into production on that piece. I think many people will be surprised by how breathable and windproof this fabric is. That being said comments are truly appreciated. KC

No new solids for this summer. Interested in what solids people would like to see. We really like to use solids which can be used in the field.

 

[josh4839]

You make a very good point, this is one thing I have learned running a small outdoor business is you can not make every customer happy. I am sure it's even more of a challenge with larger businesses such as First Lite. I can however attest to their passion for listening to their customers input and concerns and adjusting their line accordingly. I started the First Lite Trader page on Facebook just because I love First Lite and wanted to sell/trade/discuss all things FL. Overnight it exploded and became a huge outlet that many of the key employees from First Lite frequented and paid close attention to our input. Heck the Catalyst Series alone is eerily what I have been talking about all last year. However you can not please everyone. I think it boils down to listening to the majority of your customers wishes, staying true to your companies passions and platform that it was built off of and what your brand mainly focuses on. At the end of the day I have no complaints with First Lite. I don't think they get nearly the credit they deserve for how far and how fast they have risen to be a pinnacle part in both performance wear and conservation.

Maybe one day we may see zip off base layers and I hope it serves those well who wish for it but I personally have never thought that is something I need. I have spent a great deal of my life doing mountaineering. High exertion climbs in varying temps ranging from 10-15k ft. I think once you fully grasp the science of layering you can mitigate most of your moisture/heat build up whilst leaving the base layer on. Heck my Mt Rainer climb in June will be rocking 100% First Lite base layers. Pretty much already sold all my Arcteryx and Patagonia merino wool. First Lite in my opinion is not only the best hunting brand merino but it has served me better than all my mountaineering brands as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

where can I find this page on Fb? very new to the whole hunting game only been in it for about 3 years now and started out with low end hunting gear just to get me started,now I'm hook and ready to update on my garments. I've learned what I need and don't to a point. Mainly I've only done whitetail, but moving forward to do a backcountry hunt. I came across FL and been watching it and what's said about it. I've tried the little odds and ends of some of their products and fell in love with making them my garment supplier. I just about to go balls out, than they had to make there announcement about the new 2018 line. Stop me in my tracks to spend in the new directions.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisS]

Interested in what solids people would like to see. We really like to use solids which can be used in the field.

While I liked the loden-ish conifer color, especially for the obsidians, it didn't quite match the photographs in the catalog, though. I liked that color. Thought the pine was too bright, but I still wear it. I would think most would like a stone gray - it seems like something missing from the lineup.

 

[NDGuy]

While I liked the loden-ish conifer color, especially for the obsidians, it didn't quite match the photographs in the catalog, though. I liked that color. Thought the pine was too bright, but I still wear it. I would think most would like a stone gray - it seems like something missing from the lineup.

Stone gray would be good, as would the "mud" color like the Prana Zion pants come in.

 

[Mz71]

Corrugate Jacket added to the line. Can't wait to buy this for brush busting.

Corrugate Jacket - YouTube

 

[dplantz]

Same material and feel as pants I assume? Any improvements to combat the "pilling" of the face fabric and quick degredation of dwr that I get with corrugate pants? Don't get me wrong, love my corrugate pants, but see those two issues as room for improvement.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[NDGuy]

Corrugate Jacket added to the line. Can't wait to buy this for brush busting.

Corrugate Jacket - YouTube

Sigh just when I thought I had everything I need in their line...2018 kicks the door in to my wallet

 

[Mz71]

So far I will be buying the hooded halstead, corrugate jacket, and the new chama hoodie. I hate the fit on the current chama, my solid chamas feel like i'm wearing a tent and my fusion chama's are short and wide. Hoping that is fixed with the new MerinoX.

 

[ChanceinMN]

Solids

Pit zips or not. Great question. We go round and round on this. Pretty much all the high end hunting brands use YKK zippers. Their quality, consistency, and selection is hard to beat. That being said, all zippers, even the best, have inherent problems. They are heavier, louder and have many more moving parts than the fabric they replace. The version of the catalyst that is being tested is about the 5th incarnation of that piece. We started testing it in the fall of 2016. What we found was that after removing the laminate the breathability increased so much that for the very few times a tester wanted them it didn't warrant putting them into production on that piece. I think many people will be surprised by how breathable and windproof this fabric is. That being said comments are truly appreciated. KC

No new solids for this summer. Interested in what solids people would like to see. We really like to use solids which can be used in the field.

The solids First Lite has right now are perfect. When you start adding different solid colors it has the potential to end up like KUIU's solid line. Some look great and some of their mixed solid colors look disastrous. Maybe adding a grayish would be nice, but personally, black and conifer are awesome.

With that said I can't wait to get my hands on a Catalyst jacket in conifer.

 

[Hall256]

No new solids for this summer. Interested in what solids people would like to see. We really like to use solids which can be used in the field.

If you could do a darker brown (guess a few shades darker than the FDE) that would be great for the Chamberlin.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[mtnkid85]

Real interested in the new down puffy! At 25oz its substantially heavier than my ~18oz Feathered Friends hooded Helios though. What is the down fill weight? Sorry, my question wasn't clear. How many oz of fill is what I am wondering about.

the chamberlain has about 330g/11oz of fill for a medium

Yea, wow this guy is going to be a heater! The feathered friends Helios has ~8oz of fill and that thing is WARM! Thanks guys I’m stoked on the new items.