Thermal changes, how to benefit?

[Airborne1]

I am still relatively a green horn when it comes to elk hunting with only 2 western archery trips under my belt. I was laying in bed wondering how to use to my advantage/or avoid getting busted due to thermal changing in morning and evening. Correct me if I am wrong, but in the morning the air rises up draws and in the evening the air sinks.....What do you guys do to avoid being busted or use it to your advantage? Any input is greatly appreciated!!

 

[cnelk]

You're wrong

Cooler air DROPS in mornings and evenings.

 

[Airborne1]

Thank you!

 

[cnelk]

More info for you:

Thermals should not be confused with Wind.
Thermals are driven mostly by the heating/cooling of the earth surface

Thermals are very gentle movements of the air, sometimes almost imperceptible.
Cold air sinking below the rising thermal causes a downdraft.
That's why you can feel thermals in your face in one spot, then feel it on your neck in another.

Typically the thermals move DOWNSLOPE in the mornings until the air heats. When the air heats up, it mixes.
After the air heats up and stabilizes, the thermals will be UPSLOPE during the day.
Later in the day, as the air starts to cool, the thermals will mix again and then just before dark, they will be predominately
DOWNSLOPE again

Thermals are weather dependent. You wont have any consistent thermals if a weather front is moving thru.

Slope direction definitely has an impact. The sun or prevailing wind will warm one side or mix it before the other.

Here's some more info regarding thermals...
Downslope wind—

1. A wind directed down a slope, often used to describe winds produced by processes larger in scale than the slope. Because this flow produces subsidence, downslope winds experience warming, drying, increasing stability, and clearing if clouds are present.

2. Flow directed down a mountain slope and driven by cooling at the earth's surface: a component of the mountain–valley or mountain–plains wind systems; same as katabatic wind.

The many synonyms for downslope flow are sometimes used interchangeably, and this gives rise to ambiguity and confusion. Downslope can be used generically to denote any wind flow blowing down a slope, or it is used specifically for katabatic flows on any scale, such as the nocturnal slope-wind component of mountain–valley wind systems or mountain–plains wind systems.

See katabatic wind, gravity wind, drainage wind, fall wind, bora, foehn, chinook.

 

[ElkNut1]

Yep, air down in morns & evenings & swirling midday but can hold up from time to time depending on weather. Bottom line, carry a wind-checker in your hand & don't argue with it when faced with an elk encounter or nearing bedding areas. You want to avoid detection from any & all elk or other critters!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[Airborne1]

Thank you guys for the help.

 

[Coveyleader]

Think of it this way, in general.

1. When you get up in the AM, and hike or drive to your spot, the thermals in GENERAL will be going down slope. As stated above, for how long is the question. If there are any storms, fronts, etc in place, it will mess the thermals up as the wind is overtaking the thermals which will cause unstable winds.

2. When you drive or go to your spot in the evening, it's a good chance the thermals will be coming up slope because everything hasn't cooled off yet. Then, about 2 or so hours before dark, as the shadows overtake some of the draws, valleys, etc. in GENERAL, the thermals will kick in and once again and go down slope. The trick in the evening is you may have to wait longer for the winds to settle before the thermals take over.

3. In general, the darker the slope, draw, drainage (the longer it takes the sun to hit it) the longer you have in the AM to hunt on a steady thermal, and possibly the same in the evening, where you can start working the drainage earlier.

4. Areas above timberline are a totally different beast, and can really be tough as the wind is overtaking the thermals all the time. In my experience, above timberline, or right at it are the hardest areas to hunt due to swirling winds.

5. Sometimes, you will find if a slope is facing the East into a large valley, the thermals will be coming up hard in the AM on the top, but change as you drop down into the shadows.

So, early AM you normally have a couple hours of good steady thermals going down, and again in the evening, 1.5 to 2 hours before dark, thermals going down slope. The rest of the day, well, it can be tricky.

 

[geriggs]

Ill be honest with you....ive give up on predicting thermals. I just use my wind checker A LOT!!! I hunt in a bowl and the wind has screwed us a few times and a few times its worked out. Everytime i think i know what the thermals will do I am wrong....lol. At least where i hunt. And it may be wind as opposed to thermals but in the end its the same thing......which way is the wind blowing.

 

[ElkNut1]

Stay out of the bowl, call the elk out of it from the perimeter. It's much safer & effective this way!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[mathews8pt]

Get some milkweed(i take the seed off) and head out to some hills in the morning and evenings. Toss it in shade and watch what it does as it drifts off. Try it again where the sun is warming some of the ground. Try it close to water and see how it affects it.

There are so many factors that affect wind and thermals that its impossible to predict what will happen in certain areas, but you will learn what area's are more consistent and easier to predict thermals in.

Example. Around 8:30 on a east facing mountain side with mostly timber. As we were climbing to follow elk up(we were to slow) i was throwing milkweed to check the wind. In one spot there was a small 20 yard opening in the trees where the sun was hitting the bare ground. I threw a piece of milkweed at the edge of it(still in the shade) and watched it drift down, wrap around to the point of the opening, then quickly rise back up into the opening and up towards the tops of the trees. That is the reason i use milkweed over powder. Powder would never show that kind of thermal effect. Its not going to be much different in a strong wind but those light wind scenarios will be much better thought out if you check it with something that you can see for more then just a second.

As far as hunting and learning how it acts in your area, the best advise i can give is to check the wind ALL THE TIME!! Not just when your on an animal and things are happening fast. Thats a poor time to try and learn what the thermals or wind is doing in a given terrain. Good luck!!

 

[IdahoElk]

You can get extra time in the mornings before the thermals swirl if you're hunting up ravines with creeks in the bottom.

 

[geriggs]

Appreciate the tip

We have done that too and had ok success but we usually hunt early in the season and they are hit and miss with calling. and the "bowl area" has all the cover its safe for them...and cool. Its a constant battle with the wind. This year however we are hitting it a little later so maybe we will have some more vocalization. Thanks

Stay out of the bowl, call the elk out of it from the perimeter. It's much safer & effective this way!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[ElkNut1]

When trying to call elk your way even inside a 1/2 mile (closer is better) you must give the bulls a reason to come over to you especially during early season, this can also apply to more vocal times. Keep in mind elk are herd animals so you know there are multiple elk in the bowl not just one when they're there, this means there's cows around there too so they have the real mccoy there but no breeding is going on during those quiet days. This being the case cow calls & a bugle here & there won't cut it. There's no real reason for elk to leave the seclusion of the bowl because you can imitate a few elk sounds. Give them a reason to check you out, you do this by imitating rutting/breeding activity in their midst!

Bulls will use a small selection of sounds along with raking & light hoof stomping as they Display for a cow in or nearing estrus, real elk are well aware of this! Slow Play the Breeding Sequence & you will have visitors! Patience is a virtue here as bulls can show in a few minutes or 40 minutes, key is to be specific in your sounds of use that paints a mental picture in those bulls minds eye! If a bull responds even once to your sequence you bet your home they will come. If more info is needed to execute this tactic let me know!

p.s. nice thing about the tactic is rarely do cows show up first, it's tailored for pulling bulls in!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[Airborne1]

Paul, I would absolutely love some more information on that tactic!! This thread has been very helpful and full of information so far, thank you all for the replies.

 

[ElkNut1]

No problem guys, here you go!

In your situation Slow Play a Breeding Sequence! It will take from 10 min to 30 min to run its course. The odds of calling the bull in you know is there are extremely high even without him bugling! Choose a good tight setup where the bulls approach is in your range before he can see source of your sequence. Having good cover & wind in your favor is important!


You will imitate one cow & one bull, no more! I like to get about 200 yards or closer if possible but no closer than a 150yds is necessary, heck I've pulled them from a 1/2 mile away up & down mountains. Start with some light raking tree branches/brush, now add light hoof stomps & rustle what's ever on the ground such as rocks - sticks to add realism for 30 to 60 seconds. Stop raking/rustling & now add 2-3 voice pants & several glunks, give the pants through your bugle tube, this shows excitement over his present situation as he Displays, you will have any bulls attention now. Wait 15 seconds or so & add 2 soft mews & one single whiny mew, this mew will be much more abrasive & last 1-2 seconds longer than the soft mews, don't over do the cow calling, no need, it's the bulls actions that tells the story.--- Start Displaying/Raking again for 30 - 60 seconds or so. Give several bull pants & 2-3 glunks with your voice or grunt tube again with low guttural growls with throat/voice inflection, all this is for the cow. Repeat this for 15-30 minutes with a short pause in-between!



You have set the scene you are Displaying for a cow coming into estrus! This kicks butt on those lethargic bed bugles & beyond. As the encounter comes to light you may need to get creative in your sounds if your target bull turns vocal. Listen & watch closely for a silent approach from the bull.



If a bull bugles during anytime of your setup note what he's bugling, is it your cow call/raking-pants & is he cutting the distance. If he bugles your setup be ready to respond with a moderate challenge to stay away but keep raking & give those soft pants showing your excitement building for the cow, this will set the hook. After a few seconds & the real bulls anticipation growing give 3-4 Contact Buzzes, this asks the real bull to come on over, in nearly every case he responds with a short come over here bugle to the cow (round-up bugle) it has less less intensity/emotion than a challenge bugle. When he calls the cow his way you now escalate your challenge bugle to a 7-8 in a 1-to 10 scale with 10 being the highest. Get ready with an arrow nocked. Showing this defensive action for the cow on your part tells him you definitely have a hot cow. When done right the bull comes in on a string, rare is the case will he come in down-wind or behind you.


ElkNut/Paul

 

[idahohikker]

You guys need the elk nut app. Lots of good sounds and tips and the insight into ElkNut's experience is invaluable. We're lucky for him sharing what he's learned from hunting elk so much.

 

[Airborne1]

I will have to look into that app. Not gonna lie I dont know what a glunk sounds like, so I got somethings to learn.

 

[ElkNut1]

A Glunk, is a cool sound bulls make when in the presence of cows especially heard when cows are in estrus! Listen closely to the variety of them here in this sound clip, it's also in the APP along with a full explanation of its use & tips to use it as hunters as well as how to make this sound!
Glunking

ElkNut/Paul

 

[sandhillhunter]

I will have to look into that app. Not gonna lie I dont know what a glunk sounds like, so I got somethings to learn.

Best $5 spent to prepare for the hunt!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Airborne1]

Best $5 spent to prepare for the hunt!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks like it's $10 now.