Altitude question for fellow flat landers that have headed west

[CX5Ranch]

Don't over do it the first day or two. If you feel a headache coming on sit it out.

I can get a headache pretty quick while setting up camp on day one. I'm rushing around and exerting myself. After a short break I'm ok. By day 3 I feel like a gazelle

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[diyguy]

Has anyone noticed a correlation between seasickness and altitude sickness? I personally get very sea sick no matter what I do.


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[Maverick940]

Has anyone noticed a correlation between seasickness and altitude sickness? I personally get very sea sick no matter what I do.


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There's no correlation. Physiologically, each illness is caused by different circumstances and each effects the human body in very different ways. One is potentially fatal, while the other presents little if any fatal consequence.

 

[Eden]

Very informative thread for an East coaster. Thanks

 

[diyguy]

There's no correlation. Physiologically, each illness is caused by different circumstances and each effects the human body in very different ways. One is potentially fatal, while the other presents little if any fatal consequence.

Thank you for the reply, I’m for sure a flatlander and so is my medical expertise!


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[Sled]

I see AMS cases several times a week throughout the summer and winter. ColeyG has solid advice.

 

[RosinBag]

I get headaches and a little nauseous if I don’t acclimate. I went from 0 to 9500 last week and was sick like that for two days. It doesn’t bother me much if I would have stayed in town nearby the first day, but I went straight to the top and felt bad. I have had many times so it doesn’t get into my head. I take some pain meds and Advil PM and go.

 

[Violent Hippie]

This has been covered previously on Rokslide ( search altitude ) as well. Of course acclimating slowly is the safest way BUT in my personal experience it depends on the individual person. I've personally gone from the CA beach at 0 ft elevation to 14000 ft in the same day several times with some mild AMS ( acute mountain sickness) symptoms such as feeling light headed and not being able to sleep but never had serious symptoms such as shortness of breath or severe headache etc. On some of the trips I've done I have been with guys who could smoke me on beach runs but I left in the dust in the higher elevations due to them being crushed and almost inoperable from altitude. Everyone handles it different. As far as questions about taking meds for handling altitude such as diamox etc... Its not the Himalaya . If you need meds to go on a hunt at 10k then you probably shouldn't be there.

 

[TexasCub]

I don’t know how a flat lander can come here and hit the mountains running at 10,000 for a hunt, it took me a while living at 7000 here in town to get adjusted in the mountains at 9,10 and 11 k, my lungs really had trouble with it. I was breathing so heavy after just a little hiking. Never realized what kind of affect it would have on me. A buddy tried to climb a 14’r last week, got to 13,000 and literally blacked out. He came to a short while later and realized he had smacked his head when he fainted. Shits no joke at the higher altitudes.

 

[bwlacy]

Coming from Michigan at near sea level. Last trip out we camped by the truck on day1 at about 8500. Then headed up the mountain on day2 and camped around 11,000. Of course I was out of breath and moving about 1/2 speed. I didn't feel too bad, but couldn't sleep well for the first few days. I'll be taking a sleep aid this year. I think we'll have to do the same thing this year and spend a day around 8500 before heading up. Feels really bad when you are on a hiking trail getting passed by little old ladies as your sucking for air But I don't see anyway around it.

You guys know your body. If it doesn't feel right and you are noticing symptoms slow down, drop down in altitude, what ever it takes. You can't just power through it.

 

[Bearshirt]

A young guy from Michigan died a few years ago in Wyoming. They were camped between 9-10k. It does happen at lower altitudes.

I always spend first few days camping at 8k then hunt up to 9kish. I drink lots of water weeks before and on trip out to get real hydrated before I get there. I never had trouble other then a headache on the first day. First night have trouble sleeping as well. But some of that could be from excitment The conditioning makes recovery faster when I get to higher elevations. Just take lots of short breaks to catch my breath and drink lots of water. If your urine is dark yellow you are not hydrated, drink more water. I think most people dont drink enough water. It can lead to constipation too And worse.

Man, 30, dies of altitude sickness hunting in Wyoming mountains | MLive.com

 

[rayporter]

it never bothered my pard but I had trouble sleeping,
recently it has got so bad that I have to quit going.

 

[PAhunter58]

This has been covered previously on Rokslide ( search altitude ) as well. Of course acclimating slowly is the safest way BUT in my personal experience it depends on the individual person. I've personally gone from the CA beach at 0 ft elevation to 14000 ft in the same day several times with some mild AMS ( acute mountain sickness) symptoms such as feeling light headed and not being able to sleep but never had serious symptoms such as shortness of breath or severe headache etc. On some of the trips I've done I have been with guys who could smoke me on beach runs but I left in the dust in the higher elevations due to them being crushed and almost inoperable from altitude. Everyone handles it different. As far as questions about taking meds for handling altitude such as diamox etc... Its not the Himalaya . If you need meds to go on a hunt at 10k then you probably shouldn't be there.

The comment about needing meds or shouldn't go, is missing the point. If I acclimate and hydrate, a $15 prescription from a PC for Diamox is just an added insurance policy for a flat lander. Anyone who's travelling 30 hours from the east to experience the western hunt should use any tool possible to enjoy the hunt without any issues. For me, I plan on going all out, John Wayne for 7 days to get the most of my hunt. Whether you're below 10,000 or up near 13k, why not make the odds better you'll have a great experience.

 

[jray5740]

FWIW.....I used to be a professional baseball player, and watching other teams come into high altitude areas like Colorado really effected them. Most of these guys are pretty in shape and it hit them hard at times. Just something to think about in terms of fitness vs altitude. Hunting is nothing like baseball but the theory of exercise in general at high altitudes applies.

 

[Backyard]

I come from 720', and hunt around 10k'. I had a slight problem 1 time in 20 yrs of going out. I've found that if I start pre-hydrating a couple days prior to leaving and stay hydrated the entire trip that I'm fine. (a couple aspirin each day doesnt hurt either) I also take it real easy the first couple days, especially the first day, just setting up or getting things ready to pack in. Then I pack in the next day if Im bivying. Works well for me.

Good luck, and have fun this year!

 

[mproberts]

Altitude is the great equalizer as had been said above. Previous experience at altitude and/or physical fitness matter very little with regard to how well you will acclimatize. Every exposure is different and your body may or may not succed in compensating. That having been said, the more times you go through an acclimatization process, the more you will become familiar with how your body adapts which will allow you to keep better tabs on how you are doing and hopefully how to address problems before they arise.

100% this! I'm young and in excellent shape and have done lots of 14k+ trips, but it really is different every time. I have never had an issue in dozens of hard fast summits, but I went into a hunt a few years back in Colorado and had it terribly the first night. Just non-stop dizziness, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain all night long. I spent the day before the hunt at 9k ft and started the hunt at 9k going up fast to 12k and then camping the night at 11k. I showed no signs the first day while hiking and was forcing water in despite not wanting it, I woke up the first night in all kinds of pain. Luckily it slowly went away over the next day, but I can say that it really is different every time. I'm much more aware of it now after that experience but I wouldn't discount it happening to you because of past positive experiences at altitude.

 

[Bomberodevil]

I live in Phoenix (about 1300) and hunt the mountains outside of Flagstaff (8000-9000). If I can, I try to camp and sleep no higher than 7500, even if I’m hunting 1500-2000 higher. That works the best for me when I can pull it off.

 

[ColeyG]

I think there is a slight correlation between a high level of physical fitness and acclimatization and that correlation is this, the better shape you are in, the less stress there will be on your body which will allow it to focus on acclimatizing rather than healing and recovering from the days activities. That having been said, most of the dozens of patients I have evacuated with serious altitude illness could be considered extremely fit at the time of their climb. Being in good shape has little to do with how well your body can and will adapt to altitude, but it doesn't hurt.

A lack of or restless sleep is more common that not at altitude, especially for your first night or two at a higher elevation. Our autonomic respiratory rates are programmed for our oxygen needs at whatever elevation your body is used to sleeping at. During the day, our need for oxygen increases and decreases based our activity level and we breath accordingly. While you may be shorter of breath than your are used to during a given activity, your body is still ramping up your RR to get the O2 you need during the day. At night it is different though as we go into auto-pilot. Your body wants to breathe as though you are still at sea level even though you may be at 10K. This results in periodic breathing also called sleep apnea and/or Cheyne-Stokes syndrome. Without getting too technical, your autonomic breathing isn't adequate and you wake up a lot. Diamox helps curb this significantly.

One major word of caution regarding sleep aids, many common sleep aids and drugs that include PM in the title include ingredients that are RESPIRATORY DEPRESSANTS! Taking sleep aids to combat the effects of altitude can actually compound the problem by suppressing your respiratory drive and further contributing to the source of the problem, a lack of O2 in your bloodstream. These sleep aids do the exact opposite of Diamox and what your body is trying to do, ramp up up your RR. I have seen this play out dozens of times. Folks with moderate AMS symptoms take a sleep aid to help them get rested and feel better and wake up with full blown AMS or edema. No bueno.

If you plan on taking a sleep aid at altitude, talk to your doc and make sure your drug of choice doesn't contain a respiratory depressant.

More bad news, alcohol is a very significant respiratory depressant.

 

[Dwnorton1]

Diamox is awesome, at least in my case, no headaches, tiredness, etc. tried it out last week scouting, plan on using again in Sept. However I backed off dosage rate for what I read in mountaineering site. You really have to stay on your hydration, but need to anyway as that is major headache cause anyway

That being said, it worked partially for my son, stopped headaches, but everytime we went much above 11000 he would get nauseated. This is even after few days of moving up mountain, then 2 days at 10000. He is in way better shape than I but just affects him differently than it does me.

I highly recommend everyone that intends to hunt at higher elevations to understand fully what symptoms of altitude are. I suspect that some members are not being honest with group if they say they are fine. Possible but statistics say otherwise. Either people don't want to admit it or don't recognize symptoms either way could result in a bad day.

 

[ColeyG]

Somewhere earlier in the thread someone mentioned having climbed a 14'er in a pretty short amount of time starting from a relatively low elevation without any complications. The Colorado 14'ers, Mount Rainier, and Mount Whitney etc. are great examples of how altitude exposure and the duration of that exposure are the most significant factors with regard to the potential for altitude illness.

Thousands of people that live at or near sea-level climb 14,000-foot peaks in 2-3 day itineraries without getting super sick. How is this possible when people get sick and die at elevations as low as 10K? The answer is pretty simple really though perhaps not intuitive. 2-3 highly active days at 10-14k isn't usually long enough to get really sick. Most if not all of these folks suffer from what could be considered moderate AMS, but because they move up and down so quickly they don't have time to develop full blown AMS or edema. Most would report feeling like crap, breathing hard, moving slowly, etc. but only one or two nights at a moderate elevation usually isn't enough to get totally blown up. Many people count this as "successful acclimatization" which is a dangerous misnomer or perhaps more accurately a non-event feedback loop.

Sleeping at or above 10K for a few days at a time is where things start to get serious.