Altitude question for fellow flat landers that have headed west

[Maverick940]

..... altitude exposure and the duration of that exposure are the most significant factors with regard to the potential for altitude illness ........ Sleeping at or above 10K for a few days at a time is where things start to get serious.

For sure.

 

[ATX762]

Just make sure yer differentiating altitude sickness from symptoms of altitude. Coming from sea level, for me, proper altitude sickness doesn't kick in until 15k-16k feet. But like everyone else, 5K seems to be where you really notice stuff. At 10K expect to be moving at 1/3 to 1/4 speed, maxing your heart rate on easy stuff, like walking up short steep hills.

Fitness does matter but acclimation is crucial, even day 3 you'll be twice as functional as day 1. Get there early even if it's just to sleep, eat fast food, mess around, etc. Get there early and pack your stuff in a hotel instead of at home. If that makes sense. Each day actually does sort of count, especially the first few days.

Also it's completely genetic. Coming from sea level with no acclimation, I'll get proper altitude sickness, puking, crapping myself, feeling just beat to total shite, at like 15k if I haven't acclimated, but I have friends who don't get altitude sick until like 18-19k (i.e. very high in the Andes) even coming right from sea level. I am not sure I've met anyone who got actual altitude sickness at 10K but I'm sure it exists.

Truthfully I would just not worry about it. Take the meds but I doubt you'll need them. Expect to move at 1/3 speed for several days and to not sleep well the first night.

 

[ColeyG]

The medical world recognizes 3 forms of altitude illness:

1. Acute Mountain Sickness, AMS
2. High Altitude Pulmonary Edema, HAPE
3. High Altitude Cerebral Edema, HACE

Informally AMS is often broken down as mild, moderate, and severe. Once your brain starts to swell and you show signs of impaired motor function and changes in your mental status/level of conciousness, you have HACE.

When your lungs begin to fill with fluid, you have HAPE.

The symptoms of the progression of AMS have been described well here. Headache, nausea, dizziness, vomiting, fatigue, malaise, etc. Being able to recognize when AMS progresses to HAPE or HACE is pretty important. If you have hung around at altitude long enough to have to worry about that, you’ve already screwed up.

Nearly anyone who resides at elevations less than 5k will experience, at a minimum, mild AMS symptoms for their first day or two at 10k. As has been demonstrated, it can get worse from there.

Altitude illness, in as simple of terms as I can muster, results from going too high too quickly. That’s really it. In my opinion a conservative approach is always the best bet. I’ve seen firsthand, too many times to count, the unfortunate consequences of pushing too high too fast.

 

[Maverick940]

The medical world recognizes 3 forms of altitude illness:

1. Acute Mountain Sickness, AMS
2. High Altitude Pulmonary Edema, HAPE
3. High Altitude Cerebral Edema, HACE

Being able to recognize when AMS progresses to HAPE or HACE is pretty important. If you have hung around at altitude long enough to have to worry about that, you’ve already screwed up.

Altitude illness, in as simple of terms as I can muster, results from going too high too quickly.

Precisely. No one is immume, no matter your genetic propensity or physical condition or age, or whatever. As mentioned a million times over, acclimation is the only realistic prevention method or proactive medical remedy when exerting the human body at elevations above 5,000 feet. When you're at or above10,000 feet and staying at or above 10,000 feet for a period of days or weeks, you better be acclimated for it.

 

[PAhunter58]

Just want to say, I really appreciate all the feedback and info from posting my original question for this thread. Sounds like we have the full gambit of those that do not experience symptoms to ones that do. And even the guys that won't admit it. Safe to say that acclimation is the best preventive strategy. For all you veterans of hunting at all elevations, thank you for your input. I'm sure allot of my fellow novices of mountain hunting really appreciate all the information. Thanks and hopefully everyone has a great and safe fall hunting season.

 

[MallardSX2]

I had a friend get so sick in 2016 that he went back home to PA. He made it exactly 2 nights on the mountain. Then I had to take him to the ER in Steamboat. He thought he was having a heart attack. He could not get his heart rate down.

 

[pbcarch]

Wow...Pahunter, thanks for doing this post. It has really opened my eyes up to how serious this is.
Ok so for you more experienced guys (and I know this is general as we are all different):

1) what would you say is the suggested amount of time to start to acclimate yourself on day one? One night of sleeping at base?
We are flying out then driving to area, base is around 5500 to 6000. Some of the areas I have scoped out are 7500 to 9000 for hunting

2) would it be better to always set our camp in lower areas then hike up to start hunting for the day?
Initially thought of setting camp high but my has changed a bit.

3) Start taking Diomox before we get there as a preventive measure or just have it as back up? I know I will of course be discussing this with my doctor but curious to hear what you experienced

4) I am beginning to get the feeling that unless you live out west everyday at these elevations.....we all get some form of altitude sickness, be it minor to major, until our bodies acclimate.

I am seeing the real problem is us guys from the east ( or other lower areas) are just on a time crunch thus dont want to waste time sitting around till our body adjusts. Keep in mind most sport teams will go out days in advance and train at their away venue days in advance for big events

Paul



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[Laelkhunter]

As stated in several replies, acclimation is probably the best medicine. I am fortunate to have the time to drive from New Orleans (sea level) to Chama (7850 feet), taking two days to drive. We spend the night in Amarillo, Tx (3500 feet), then continue on to Chama the next day.
I think those that don't have the time to drive, and have to fly are at somewhat of a disadvantage. They get on a plane at sea level, then several hours later they get off the plane in Denver at 6000 feet. Then they drive in a rental car up to their hunting camp/area, at an even higher altitude, and start exerting themselves on a hunt the next day. Their body doesn't have a chance to adjust.

 

[LostArra]

A lot of good stuff here.
Just to add. After speaking with an emergency room doctor in Leadville, Co (home of the Leadville 100) it is also very important to get plenty of salt intake. Runners, hikers and hunters who just drink water and eat fruit or sweet snacks can get hyponatremia which will put the brakes on any activity. This happened to one of my adult daughters on Mount Elbert. The evening ended with S&R on horseback getting her off the mountain and to the ER for sodium infusion. Pretzels and jerky were recommended by the ER doctor as good snacks on the mountain.

 

[OFFHNTN]

Wow...Pahunter, thanks for doing this post. It has really opened my eyes up to how serious this is.
Ok so for you more experienced guys (and I know this is general as we are all different):

1) what would you say is the suggested amount of time to start to acclimate yourself on day one? One night of sleeping at base?
We are flying out then driving to area, base is around 5500 to 6000. Some of the areas I have scoped out are 7500 to 9000 for hunting

2) would it be better to always set our camp in lower areas then hike up to start hunting for the day?
Initially thought of setting camp high but my has changed a bit.

3) Start taking Diomox before we get there as a preventive measure or just have it as back up? I know I will of course be discussing this with my doctor but curious to hear what you experienced

4) I am beginning to get the feeling that unless you live out west everyday at these elevations.....we all get some form of altitude sickness, be it minor to major, until our bodies acclimate.

I am seeing the real problem is us guys from the east ( or other lower areas) are just on a time crunch thus dont want to waste time sitting around till our body adjusts. Keep in mind most sport teams will go out days in advance and train at their away venue days in advance for big events

Paul



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It really depends on the individual.
1.) I live at 900' and usually don't feel anything till I get above 8,000. I don't think you will feel much at 5500-6000.
2.) I would not want to have a 2,000-3,500 foot climb every morning to get to the hunting area. I would have base camp higher, take it easy the first 2-3 days depending on how you feel.
3.) Start taking it a couple days before you leave, and through the hunt.
4.) I would agree. Like I said, I live at 900', start to feel it at 8k, and really notice it at 10k. I have driven right to camp at 10k, hunted up to 12k with only a slight headache for the first 2 days, usually by day 3 I am good to go. This is without Diamox.

 

[Maverick940]

I would not want to have a 2,000-3,500 foot climb every morning to get to the hunting area.

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.

 

[ColeyG]

1) what would you say is the suggested amount of time to start to acclimate yourself on day one? One night of sleeping at base?
We are flying out then driving to area, base is around 5500 to 6000. Some of the areas I have scoped out are 7500 to 9000 for hunting

I am assuming that your ideal situation would be to camp as close to the hunting area as possible in order to spend your time productively instead of hiking to and from your hunting spot each day? If that is the case, 7500 & 9000 are pretty moderate elevations. I'd say if you spend one while night and one whole day at the base before moving up and sleeping at 9K, you'd probably be fine. I have flown from sea level to a base camp at 7200' in AK dozens of times and have never had anyone on one of my trips suffer from even mild AMS on that program. Most notice a slight increase in HR and RR, but that is about it. 9K is a little different and worth taking a day or two down low before sleeping high I'd say.

2) would it be better to always set our camp in lower areas then hike up to start hunting for the day?
Initially thought of setting camp high but my has changed a bit.

Personally I'd want to camp as close to the hunting zone as possible rather than commute each day. At the moderate elevations of your target hunt, I don't there is much need for concern about sleeping as high as you want up to 9K after a day or two down low.

3) Start taking Diomox before we get there as a preventive measure or just have it as back up? I know I will of course be discussing this with my doctor but curious to hear what you experienced

I typically wouldn't recommend or think anyone would benefit much from Diamox below 10K, even that is a little low for most to start considering it. My preferred strategy is always to let my body run through it's natural cycles and avoid intervening with that process unless it is necessary. In other words, I use meds to treat conditions and symptoms as they arise rather than prophylactically.

4) I am beginning to get the feeling that unless you live out west everyday at these elevations.....we all get some form of altitude sickness, be it minor to major, until our bodies acclimate.

When sleeping above 10K, I would say it is more common than not that most feel a little "scuzzy" for at least a day. Certainly not all though. At or above 14K the question typically becomes how bad will I feel. Above 17K, pretty much everyone feels like dog crap for a few days if not their entire stay, and trying to avoid edema is the name of the game. Above 10K, every 1k of elevation gain is significant.

I am seeing the real problem is us guys from the east ( or other lower areas) are just on a time crunch thus don't want to waste time sitting around till our body adjusts. Keep in mind most sport teams will go out days in advance and train at their away venue days in advance for big events

Exactly. Going too high too fast. Patience is a virtue and an ounce of prevention is worth a ten pounds of cure in these environments.

Here is an interesting summary of how atmospheric pressure affects the availability of O2. Bear in mind that air is made of up 21% oxygen regardless of what elevation you are at. At higher elevations (lower atmospheric pressure) those O2 molecules are farther apart meaning we take in fewer with each breath.

At 7K, it feels like there is 23% less O2 than at sea level
At 10k, 31% less
At 14K, 41%
At 17K, 48%
At 20k, 54%

The predicted SpO2 (oxygen content of our blood) at these altitudes for properly acclimated folks is as follows:

At sea level, 97-100% SpO2 is normal.

At 5k, normal SpO2 is 92-93
At 7.5K, 92-93
At 10K, 89-91
At 15K, 86
At 20K, 76

So even after "properly" acclimatizing, our bodies are still making do with significantly less O2 in our blood stream than we are used to at our home elevation. This has obvious effects on things like physical and mental performance even in the best case scenario.

In a clinical situation, docs start freaking out when someones SpO2 dips into the mid-nineties. I have treated folks that, although still functioning to some degree, were quite sick with an SpO2 that had dipped into the mid-forties. These people typically make a full recovery within a day or two at lower elevations. Most medical professionals without experience at high altitude would say this is impossible. They have a term for a body with an SpO2 in the mid-forties...dead. The human body is a pretty remarkable machine.

 

[Mosby]

Got sick at altitude for the first time last summer on a scouting trip. It was horrible. Had to leave after 2 days. Like others I posted drinking lots of water(and electrolytes), taking advil and acclimating all are supposed to help, so I do all of the above and I am training harder this year to get in better shape. I am also going to get a prescription for diamox to have in camp. Outside of moving there, I am not sure there is much else you can do.

 

[ColeyG]

A personal hyperbaric chamber is only about $8,000

 

[HUNTNUT]

Diamox. Get a prescription from your MD and follow directions. Have not had a problem going from 1000ft to 11600 in 24 hrs. Always had headaches before. If you take it, don’t drink soft drinks. They will taste horrible.

 

[Disco14]

Thanks everyone for their input- very helpful for my upcoming CO hunt.

 

[Sled]

Also it's completely genetic. Coming from sea level with no acclimation, I'll get proper altitude sickness, puking, crapping myself, feeling just beat to total shite, at like 15k if I haven't acclimated, but I have friends who don't get altitude sick until like 18-19k (i.e. very high in the Andes) even coming right from sea level. I am not sure I've met anyone who got actual altitude sickness at 10K but I'm sure it exists.

i have seen 2 cases of HAPE develop over a 1 week period when sleeping at 8,000'. they were both recreating 2-3k above that and not likely taking very good care of themselves. i suspect one of those cases had a significant cold virus that also stressed the body further exacerbating the issue.

 

[Sodbuster]

Great thread.

 

[jdmaxwell]

When I was younger one year while snowboarding in Colorado, I developed bad case a HAPE.
Friends took me to ER. I had one lung completely full of fluid on chest ex ray. Dr. Told me lucky I came in. Stone cold face, he said I would only have survived for 5 more hours.
After day on 24 hr oxygen and discharged with oxygen I started to recoop.
Going on trip I was in very good physical shape.
Dr told me it usually affects young athletic non smoking males the worst. But that I could go again and may never affect me.

Well, I have OTC elk hunted Colorado high country the last 11 years in a row.
I get Diamox from my dr and take it. Drink tons of water
And get there 2 days before going up to High country.

I have had 0 problems since then.

 

[standard_lengthy]

I am from Wisconsin. I took diamox as prescribed and felt fine, although out of breath a lot. We were in unit 45 CO and slept at 12k. Perhaps I am of no help.


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