Altitude question for fellow flat landers that have headed west

[PAhunter58]

This question is for fellow NR that head west to hunt. What percentage do you or your partners ever experience any type of altitude sickness. A recent Gohunt article says that the norm is 25% of hunters from low elevations will have issues. I'm curious if that is in fact true? The article even said it doesn't matter how good in condition you are, it just depends on each specific person. Wonder what the opinions of those who have done it once or those that go out year after year?

 

[Maverick940]

This question is for fellow NR that head west to hunt. What percentage do you or your partners ever experience any type of altitude sickness. A recent Gohunt article says that the norm is 25% of hunters from low elevations will have issues. I'm curious if that is in fact true? The article even said it doesn't matter how good in condition you are, it just depends on each specific person. Wonder what the opinions of those who have done it once or those that go out year after year?

Acclimating is the key to success when it comes to HACE and HAPE. Conditioning is fairly irrelevant. It's all about acclimating.

 

[huntstrong2850]

This question is for fellow NR that head west to hunt. What percentage do you or your partners ever experience any type of altitude sickness. A recent Gohunt article says that the norm is 25% of hunters from low elevations will have issues. I'm curious if that is in fact true? The article even said it doesn't matter how good in condition you are, it just depends on each specific person. Wonder what the opinions of those who have done it once or those that go out year after year?

Me nor anyone I’ve been with has experienced it, we went our very first year from NC and WV to Utah and spent the first few days at 10,000ft looking at mountain goats.. but shortness of breath and not being able to move at the pace you can on the east are real concerns. Don’t say I can get from point A to point B on google earth in this amount of time.. by about day 3 you’ll be adjusted and more than ready to move at a better pace.. just take your first two days lightly and go at a good steady pace and you should be okay. The more often you the more you just know what to expect at first when you arrive. But if you do start experiencing altitude sickness don’t take it lightly...


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[deerhunter628]

This question is for fellow NR that head west to hunt. What percentage do you or your partners ever experience any type of altitude sickness. A recent Gohunt article says that the norm is 25% of hunters from low elevations will have issues. I'm curious if that is in fact true? The article even said it doesn't matter how good in condition you are, it just depends on each specific person. Wonder what the opinions of those who have done it once or those that go out year after year?

I have gone with 7 different eastern hunters and none of us have experienced altitude sickness. We camp at about 10,000 feet.

 

[browning2480]

I have never experienced it either. Just make sure you drink lots of water and take it easy the first couple of days. I have had people tell me that drinking water might not really help, but my experience is your body handles everything better when you are good and hydrated.

 

[erle1139]

Our group of 4 live at less than 100' of elevation on the Gulf coast. We usually stay one night in town at around 5500' then go to camp the next morning at around 10,000'. Other than a few light headaches and shortness of breath, nobody in our camp has ever had a problem. We take BC powders, drink lots of water, and try to take it slower the first couple of days. The biggest problems we've had is trying to catch our breath the first few days, but after that it isn't a big deal. Your body will say "go" but your lungs will say "no".

 

[sodaksooner]

My first year, spent the first night at over 10k feet right from 700. Had a slight headache and slept very restlessly. We had two guys in camp that did the same thing and they were down for a couple of days. Since then we usually spend the first night in someplace lower, Denver, Gunnison, wherever. We hydrate very well also. Have not had an issue on the 4 subsequent hunts.

 

[hflier]

Headache, restlessness during sleep. Catching breath during exertion. Last year I went to 5K day one, 8K day two and my first hunt day I shot my Elk at about 11K. Wasn't in to bad of shape for that. Had to stop a few times on the trail up to regain my air, but other than that it was good. I hydrated like crazy before and during. I also took WA Altitude Advantage also, not sure if that helped or not. I live at 600 ft.

 

[PAhunter58]

All good advice. Plan on doing most of what has been said. Staying at 5500FT and 7500FT the two days before heading into camp, which is at 9600FT. The hunt could take me up as high as 12k if there is not much snow cover. My doctor said he will prescribe Acetazolomide too. This is supposed to be the goto meds that will help prevent any issues. Thanks for your guys input.

 

[dangerousD]

Never been an issue for me and the half dozen guys I’ve hunted with in the last five years. Sometimes I will spend the night in Laramie on my way west and I think that helps the acclimation. After two days at 10k I’m good to go. Before that my sleep is a little restless and some light headedness if I bend over and stand up quickly. Usually pounding in tent stakes. Just have to slow down due to shortness of breath the first couple days. Even after that I can’t go full speed like at 500’ where I live but no other altitude related issues. I hydrate well on my drive west and minimize caffeine and stimulants.

 

[pbcarch]

For you guys that did take that prescription med.....it’s says it is a diuretic. Did you experience any side affects?

Does the med just help in preventing altitude sickness in that you still need to acclimate slowly?

Seems like the theme here is to spend first night at base entry point then hike up to camp the next day.

One other thought....we are flying into Boise then have 3.5 hour drive to our unit. You think that drive helps to acclimate at all.

Just looking to spend every second we can chasing elk

Paul


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[Johnson27]

I made 2 trips to Colorado last year.

The first trip I only spent 12 hours± in Denver and went straight to 10,500'. I got altitude sickness so bad I had to get lower for 2 days. I only went back to 8500-9000' as I was hunting solo.

The 2nd trip I spent 2.5 days in Denver and then went to 10,500' with only a slight headache that time.

Personally, I need acclimation time coming from an area under 600' in elevation.

 

[Maverick940]

I made 2 trips to Colorado last year.

The first trip I only spent 12 hours± in Denver and went straight to 10,500'. I got altitude sickness so bad I had to get lower for 2 days. I only went back to 8500-9000' as I was hunting solo.

The 2nd trip I spent 2.5 days in Denver and then went to 10,500' with only a slight headache that time.

Personally, I need acclimation time coming from an area under 600' in elevation.

Smart move.

 

[SoDakGuy]

I'm also a flat lander and have been high in the mountains a lot, only hunted them once though and I've never had to much of an issue nor did any of my buddies. I carry aspirin with me and was taking one a day to thin the blood a little and drank lots off water which is KEY..but had 0 problems

 

[atenjones]

Woman says Mountain Rescue Aspen helped save her after stricken by HACE | AspenTimes.com

This was a friend of a friend of mine. Scary stuff for sure. Regardless of whether you think you’ll be affected, make sure you are aware of any symptoms and have a plan.


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[FlyGuy]

For you guys that did take that prescription med.....it’s says it is a diuretic. Did you experience any side affects?

Does the med just help in preventing altitude sickness in that you still need to acclimate slowly?

Seems like the theme here is to spend first night at base entry point then hike up to camp the next day.

One other thought....we are flying into Boise then have 3.5 hour drive to our unit. You think that drive helps to acclimate at all.

Just looking to spend every second we can chasing elk

Paul


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While I haven't had any serious trouble with Altitude sickness, it has affected me in the past. These were business trips, not hunting trips. It sucks. It feels like a bad hangover or sea sickness. Pounding headache and nausea. B/c of that history, I got the Rx for Diamox. I've used it for the past two years (3 trips) and I plan to do it again in September.

i have not noticed any diuretic type of symptoms. But I do experience a few other minor side effects, both of which are not listed per the drug but I've had them very consistently :

The first one is that it will make any carbonated drink taste awful. Like when the soda drink machine has a bad mix going on and needs adjusting. I quit drinking Coke Zeros a few months back, but in years past I was completely addicted to them. It sucked b/c on the long drive to the hunt I really wanted to savor a number of them before going into the wilderness, but I just couldn't choke them down. HaHa. I think this has something to do with the way the meds help your body to process nitrogen quicker or something like that. Or, maybe that is completely wrong. Maybe a dr on here can speak up, but regardless just know that for the 3 days you take the meds you will not like any carbonated drinks.

The second effect I noticed was that I didn't seem to sleep very deeply. its hard to explain, but it was like i never got out of stage 1 or 2 sleep. I was probably dreaming like normal, but it felt like I was a lot more aware of my dreams and more in control of decisions made in them. That probably doesn't make sense, but the best I can describe it. There were two pills per day, and remembering to take the second one in the afternoon, vs right before bed, helped a lot. Surprisingly, I did not feel extremely tired during the day even though I felt I wasn't sleeping well.

The good part is that I have not had any issue with altitude whatsoever since taking it. In fact, I can go super hard on day 1 right out of the gate and I haven't needed any time to "take it easy" at the start. The last 3 trips I have done 11, 10, & 9.5 hard miles on the first day out with no ill effects.

 

[johnhenry]

I live at 6000ft here in Colorado. I feel altitude at 11,000ft - a bit less oxygen. At 12,000 I get a tiny bit lightheaded and am definetly short of breath. At 13,000 I have to go real slow and I get sick above 13,500 everytime. Its all relative. 6000 estra ft is 6000 extra ft.
But if I go for multiple hikes or backcountry skis at 10,500 for a month then 12,500 becomes a piece of cake. Acclimation!

 

[ColeyG]

Most people that live at or near sea level will start to feel some of the effects of lower atmospheric pressure (high altitude) at about 5000 feet. This typically manifests as slightly elevated heart rate and respiratory rates as compared to your normal rates at lower elevations.

Altitude illness isn't really a concern until you are at or above 8000-feet, and even at that elevation, cases of Acute Mountain Sickness (AMS) are extremely rare.

At or above 10k, AMS becomes more common and could progress to HAPE or HACE.

There is some good experience-based feedback in the replies above. I'll try to offer a little more based on 20-ish years of walking around in the high mountains including eleven years leading trips on Denali at 20,310'. I've had the chance to see the effects of truly high altitude on thousands of people and there are definitely a few simple things you can do to help set yourself up for success with regard to adequate acclimatization.

As has been mentioned above, start slow. If you can spend a night or two an "intermediate" elevation on your way to the high country, this will allow your body to begin the compensatory process. AMS and the edemas (HAPE and HACE) are caused by a lack of oxygen in your blood and adequate perfusion. As you spend time at altitude, your body builds more red blood cells, thus increasing it's carrying capacity for oxygen leading to better perfusion and hopefully staving off illness. The altitude at which you sleep is more significant that the altitude that you hike to on any given day. The tried and true adage in the mountaineering world is "climb high sleep low."

If your target "high camp" is at 10K or close to it, spend a night at 5K and/or 7.5K and try to be somewhat active during these days. This is pretty conservative as plenty of people just blast right up and do fine, but why not take the time if you have it. I have definitely seen a number of folks go from at or near sea-level to sleeping at 10K and get sick. This is usually AMS that resolves in a day or two, but I'd rather spend those two days lower down acclimatizing rather than up high feeling like crap while trying to go hunting. I feel like I have seen this scenario play out a number of times, including having experienced it personally. A lowlander goes from at or near sea-level to 10K on day 1 and sleeps. The next day they hike around at slightly higher elevations (12-13K), get tired and dehydrated, and sleep at 10k or higher if they have moved up to a higher camp on day 2. On day 3, AMS comes knocking and rocks your world.

Altitude is the great equalizer as had been said above. Previous experience at altitude and/or physical fitness matter very little with regard to how well you will acclimatize. Every exposure is different and your body may or may not succed in compensating. That having been said, the more times you go through an acclimatization process, the more you will become familiar with how your body adapts which will allow you to keep better tabs on how you are doing and hopefully how to address problems before they arise.

Hydration and fatigue both play a role in how well you acclimatize. If you are tired and dehydrated it is a lot harder for your body to do what it needs to do, ramp up compensatory mechanisms. Stay active for your first few days, but don't run yourself into the ground too early and you will set the stage for a successful acclimatization process.

Recognize the signs and symptoms of AMS early. If you have a headache, high level of perceived fatigue, malaise, etc. go down ASAP. Dropping out for a day or two and coming back up is the best fix for AMS. Hanging at a given altitude hoping and trying to feel better and/or going higher is what can lead AMS to HAPE/HACE. The edemas are extremely rare for people sleeping below 14K, but it can happen. Severe AMS is probably the most significant concern and a bad bout of that can definitely be a show stopper.

Regarding prescription drugs, Diamox (acetazolamide) is a great drug, but it does have some side effects that are a serious concerns for people engaged in any sort of high output activity like climbing, mountain hunting etc. In a greatly simplified nutshell, Diamox makes you breathe more. As such, it aids the acclimatization process by staving off AMS symptoms while your body compensates. as has been mentioned, it is a diuretic which is a big concern re: hydration and rest (getting up to pee all night), both of which are important for an acclimatizing body. The dose that will likely be recommended by the doc is one 500 tablet twice a day, which is a huge dose. Lots of studies in the mountaineering world have demonstrated that half or even a quarter of a tablet one time a day provides essentially the same benefit as the full course with greatly reduced side effects.

My personal philosophy re: drugs is that I use them to treat symptoms as they occur rather than prophylactically. Having a bit of Diamox along in case you start feeling like crap on your first night at higher altitude is not a bad idea. It can be very helpful to ease symptoms and facilitate your immediate descent.

Dexamethasone and and Nifedipine are life saving interventions for HACE and HAPE respectively. Again these are used to treat symptoms and to facilitate immediate descent. These things should be considered in med kits for those planning to spend extended times at altitudes above 14K.

For trips that base at around 10-12K and top out at 14K, I typically don't take any altitude meds along other than vitamin I aka ibuprofen.

So in summary and in the context of what I would call a moderate elevation mountain hunt, I'd recommend the following:

1) Spend a day or two at intermediate elevations before you sleep at your higher elevation camp. If you plan to go up from there. Don't sleep more than 1000 feet higher per day, that is don't sleep at 12K until you've spent at least two nights at 10k, etc.
2) Remain moderately active for your few few days as you gain elevation and avoid any monster days aka excessive fatigue and dehydration for your first couple of days.
3) If you start to get sick, lose 2-3K ASAP, spend another day or two, and come back up when you feel better.
4) Be honest with yourself and your partner(s) about how you are all feeling. All of the illnesses described above start as relatively slow progressions which are easily solved early on. A daily self/team assessment and ongoing communication is key to maintaining a good group dynamic.

Good luck and enjoy the high country!

 

[Whitty]

Great info above!

 

[Scoony]

I do know that at 12000 ft I get extremely short breathed. Found that out going over Independence Pass and stopping to take pictures. Did not get as far from the car as I had wanted. 100 yards seems to be far enough, but I had gone a few years without exercising. That was 2012, and since then been working out lifting and running. Past two years we have been up close to 9000 ft in Idaho and I really didn't seem to notice any effects.

This year we will be hunting at 10,000-12,000 ft. in SW Colorado. I have read that swimming laps helps with breathing at higher altitudes and have added swimming to my workout schedule. I also plan on getting the prescriptions for high altitude in case I need it.