Can someone with no tag carry my spare rifle?

[sndmn11]

In Colorado there is absolutely no law about possessing any legally possessed firearm on public land outside of any laws a municipal city may have. He can carry around your entire arsenal if he wishes.

 

[mcr-85]

Exactly, funny how many will role on their own 2nd rights. IMO only, the warden would have to catch a non license holder in the act of shooting an animal to successfully prosecute. Otherwise if questioned "why are you carrying a rifle?", "I'm scared of bears/ dopers/ the dark, non of your damn business would all be acceptable answers, at least that's how it works in free states.

I completely agree with you.

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[tt_johnsclist]

In Colorado there is absolutely no law about possessing any legally possessed firearm on public land outside of any laws a municipal city may have. He can carry around your entire arsenal if he wishes.

You are absolutely correct, except in this case it is the fact that he is “hunting” not simply carrying a firearm. At least that is how it was explained to me when I was ticketed for carrying game calls in a very similar situation. I can legally carry game calls in the woods anytime I like but it all changes when I tag along on a hunt.


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

In Colorado there is absolutely no law about possessing any legally possessed firearm on public land outside of any laws a municipal city may have. He can carry around your entire arsenal if he wishes.

There is if you're hunting and now you're into arguing whether being on a hunt counts as hunting... I would suggest if you dispense that advice you might want to do so with a caveat. If you cross a warden best case you're looking at a hassle, more than likely a ticket and you'll be paying a lawyer to defend the position you are taking. Do you honestly think otherwise IF you're on a hunt which is what is being discussed? Edit: when I say do you think otherwise I'm asking about what you view the likely outcome to be, not whether you agree with the likely outcome.

 

[LWC]

You are absolutely correct, except in this case it is the fact that he is “hunting” not simply carrying a firearm. At least that is how it was explained to me when I was ticketed for carrying game calls in a very similar situation. I can legally carry game calls in the woods anytime I like but it all changes when I tag along on a hunt.


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This is odd to me. You said it happened in Canada? Must be a Canadian thing.

People without elk (duck, turkey, etc..) tags carry their own calls and call elk for their partners with tags all the time. Nothing illegal there. If it were, guides would be illegal too.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

Assuming you are going to Colorado, can your buddy pick up a bear tag? That would solve the quandry, justify the extra gun, and might make for an exciting bonus critter should you stumble across one.

As it sits, hauling a spare rifle seems like more of a pain in the ass than it is worth.

 

[204guy]

Hopefully no ones vehicle is capable of going over the speed limit. You COULD speed, so a cop should be able to pull you over and write you a ticket for intent to speed.

 

[tt_johnsclist]

This is odd to me. You said it happened in Canada? Must be a Canadian thing.

People without elk (duck, turkey, etc..) tags carry their own calls and call elk for their partners with tags all the time. Nothing illegal there. If it were, guides would be illegal too.

Oh I agree with you, it still seems odd to me to this day. Regardless, that’s what happened and I thought I’d pass it along to the OP.

I don’t know the Colorado laws myself, but anywhere I’ve hunted guides and calling partners all need to hold a legal hunting license to do so, thought not necessarily a tag.


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[tt_johnsclist]

Hopefully no ones vehicle is capable of going over the speed limit. You COULD speed, so a cop should be able to pull you over and write you a ticket for intent to speed.

I hear you, but in the OP’s case you are hanging out with known street racers on a backroad at 2am and driving your buddies “backup” Mitsubishi. Even if you didn’t speed you got some explaining to do - at least based on my experience!


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[KSP277]

Exactly, funny how many will role on their own 2nd rights. IMO only, the warden would have to catch a non license holder in the act of shooting an animal to successfully prosecute. Otherwise if questioned "why are you carrying a rifle?", "I'm scared of bears/ dopers/ the dark, non of your damn business would all be acceptable answers, at least that's how it works in free states.

Make sure you lead off with “none of your damn business “ tho. Let him know you wanna get those formalities out of the way. Should probably film it for YouTube also so everybody knows you ain’t takin no shit from the man.

 

[LWC]

I don’t know the Colorado laws myself, but anywhere I’ve hunted guides and calling partners all need to hold a legal hunting license to do so, thought not necessarily a tag.

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Anybody else want to weigh in on this? I never knew a caller needed a license or a tag. I always thought it was just the shooter, but I've sure been wrong before.

 

[sndmn11]

There is if you're hunting and now you're into arguing whether being on a hunt counts as hunting... I would suggest if you dispense that advice you might want to do so with a caveat. If you cross a warden best case you're looking at a hassle, more than likely a ticket and you'll be paying a lawyer to defend the position you are taking. Do you honestly think otherwise IF you're on a hunt which is what is being discussed? Edit: when I say do you think otherwise I'm asking about what you view the likely outcome to be, not whether you agree with the likely outcome.

I hear your point. I has a small town police officer for a handful of years, and we covered a lot of calls for the county and for CPW. Any of those folks who i know and have worked with, I can genuinely say that they would not give any citation for what was described. My position is that a Law Enforcement Officer cannot make up a statute on a whim. There is no statute in the Colorado Revised Statutes, in the Criminal Code (Title 18) or Wildlife Code (Title 33) that prohibits possession of a firearm during a season. It just does not exist. Just like a Trooper cannot ticket someone for driving too slow...a statute like that does not exist.

33-6-109 seems to be the most applicable, possession is evidence, but vaguely uses the word "hunt". I personally do not know any LEO who would believe that probable cause is met by a person simply possessing a firearm during a season. Some other obvious, overt, and articulable observations need to be present, AND not stomped on by the words of the subject.... "I am carrying my friend's rifle". If this were not the case, where does the line get drawn? If you take your child hunting and their hands get too cold to hold the rifle so you carry it, does simply holding it while gloves are put on make you a violator? Carrying it 10 yards? 100yards? 1 mile? None do, you are merely possessing something, and not going through the process or act of hunting.

Just because a person has a keg in their car, doesn't mean that they are DUI, the act is the illegal part.

 

[cnelk]

Why not send in your question and get the answer from the CPW? Colorado Parks & Wildlife -
Ask CPW
You'll get an answer back in a couple of days

Let us know what they say

 

[204guy]

Make sure you lead off with “none of your damn business “ tho. Let him know you wanna get those formalities out of the way. Should probably film it for YouTube also so everybody knows you ain’t takin no shit from the man. ��

I don't think I would lead off with that or "this is my buddy's extra hunting rifle". The point is still valid. Do you guys in CO immediately throw your rifle in the bushes after you shoot an animal? Or do you just unload it and remove the bolt? Technically once your tag is filled you are no longer a licensed legal hunter and apparently should not be in the field with a firearm capable of killing a big game animal. Allright I'll jump off my soapbox.

Anybody else want to weigh in on this? I never knew a caller needed a license or a tag. I always thought it was just the shooter, but I've sure been wrong before.

It was in Ontario Canada hardly applicable to CO. Unless Colorado has a law (not rule) that states you must posses a hunting license or similar to assist a hunter.

-One last thought. I think it was on Rinella's podcast that they were in CO and encountered a very sketchy guy out in the National Forest "hunting" that left them feeling very unnerved about the whole situation. Are you guys telling me that the camera man couldn't posses a firearm for any reason unless he was a licensed hunter himself? I realize that's a cherry picked situation but still one that occurred.

 

[GotDraw?]

You are asking OPINIONS from the members here.

It will not be you that needs facts, it will be your buddy that needs facts if shit goes wrong with a LEO. I hope he's comfortable stammering and pointing to conjecture and speculation on RokSlide for his defense.

I'd say you owe it to your buddy to invest 15 minutes of your time to call Colorado Park and Wildlife and get factual ANSWERS.


JL

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Just because a person has a keg in their car, doesn't mean that they are DUI, the act is the illegal part.

Its not always that simple in the eyes of the law, you should be all to familiar with "possession with the intent to distribute" being merely a quantity of a drug w/o any act whatsoever right?

If you are on an hunt you're in an act and now its up to the CPW officer to make the judgment call whether that act is hunting or not and I don't want be in a gray area that someone else gets to decide on and gets expensive for me after they make that decision (fines or lawyer fees). It doesn't matter if a lawyer proves me innocent in the end, the state isn't paying me back for the lawyer... Thus if I was packing out a buddies rifle w/o a tag I'd give him the bolt to ensure there is no credible accusation. My kids aren't quite hunting age but if I don't have a tag when I take them out and I need to carry the gun I'll likely do exactly this. I don't want any credible accusation I'm out hunting on a youth tag or such. Call it cautious if you want but I don't like my fate decided by someone else's interpretation.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Just a thought like Gunner said if it's Colorado your buddy could buy a small game license, which are only $56 for NRs and under Chapter W-3 Article 1 #303 you are legally allowed to use "Any rifle or handgun" for hunting of small game mammals or furbearers. There are plenty of seasons that would be legally open then that you could fall under.

Except during big game seasons west of I25, the regulations explicitly state nothing over .23cal for small game hunting unless you have an unfilled big game tag.

 

[Jbehredt]

Hopefully no ones vehicle is capable of going over the speed limit. You COULD speed, so a cop should be able to pull you over and write you a ticket for intent to speed.

They can write you a ticket for rapidly accelerating and backing off right before you exceed the posted limit. “Excessive display of power” as it was written Kind of like getting dressed in camo, grabbing a gun then walking a round in the woods during hunting season but never actually shooting anything....

 

[mproberts]

This is solid advice! I've learned this lesson the hard way. I spent a ton on lawyer fees and private investigator fees to prove something I was 100% innocent of. Yes I ended up being right, but I definitely still lost in the end. I would have much rather spent that money on a reallllly nice sheep hunt or two!! Email CPW and save their response for later use...

Its not always that simple in the eyes of the law, you should be all to familiar with "possession with the intent to distribute" being merely a quantity of a drug w/o any act whatsoever right?

If you are on an hunt you're in an act and now its up to the CPW officer to make the judgment call whether that act is hunting or not and I don't want be in a gray area that someone else gets to decide on and gets expensive for me after they make that decision (fines or lawyer fees). It doesn't matter if a lawyer proves me innocent in the end, the state isn't paying me back for the lawyer... Thus if I was packing out a buddies rifle w/o a tag I'd give him the bolt to ensure there is no credible accusation. My kids aren't quite hunting age but if I don't have a tag when I take them out and I need to carry the gun I'll likely do exactly this. I don't want any credible accusation I'm out hunting on a youth tag or such. Call it cautious if you want but I don't like my fate decided by someone else's interpretation.

 

[sndmn11]

Its not always that simple in the eyes of the law, you should be all to familiar with "possession with the intent to distribute" being merely a quantity of a drug w/o any act whatsoever right?

If you are on an hunt you're in an act and now its up to the CPW officer to make the judgment call whether that act is hunting or not and I don't want be in a gray area that someone else gets to decide on and gets expensive for me after they make that decision (fines or lawyer fees). It doesn't matter if a lawyer proves me innocent in the end, the state isn't paying me back for the lawyer... Thus if I was packing out a buddies rifle w/o a tag I'd give him the bolt to ensure there is no credible accusation. My kids aren't quite hunting age but if I don't have a tag when I take them out and I need to carry the gun I'll likely do exactly this. I don't want any credible accusation I'm out hunting on a youth tag or such. Call it cautious if you want but I don't like my fate decided by someone else's interpretation.

That is a really good idea to take the bolt out...but what it displays is a lack of intent.. Again, the act is the issue or non-issue, not the object. I once charged a woman with Possession of Burglary Tools (18-4-205) for a SWEATSHIRT, she was successfully convicted of that among other related charges. She wrapped the sweatshirt around her elbow and shattered a window to gain entry into a residence for the purpose of breaking her ex's tvs, computers, doors, etc. That surely doesn't mean all sweatshirts are now illegal burglary tools, nor are the screwdrivers, pry bars, etc. in your garage, nor are the bump keys or slim jims a lock smith has....Actions are the deciding factor as actions can help decipher intent. Intent is valuable here because if they are gameless, what prima facia evidence is there of hunting? I still think it is a very very long shot to get any trouble from carrying around a firearm during the hunting season. I will stand by that act not being close to being illegal, and would love to see a statute saying otherwise or case law applying a crime to that act.