Elk Diaphragm Calls

CiK01

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I have bought several different kinds of elk diaphragm calls and none of them fit the same.

Does Bugling Bull or Phelps have a size guide to which might fit like others?

Tony


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5MilesBack

"DADDY"
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Does Bugling Bull or Phelps have a size guide to which might fit like others?

It's interesting......I normally use Carlton's calls, so the 5/8" frame and I don't even have to think about it. They go in my mouth and good sounds immediately come out without even thinking about it. So I ordered some 5/8" Phelps calls and tried them. Laying one of those over or next to the Carlton's they look identical in size and shape, but I really struggle to get any sounds with them, let alone good sounds. But I tried Phelp's 1/2" frames, and they flow like the Carlton's 5/8".

I've never liked the sonic dome type calls or any of the ones with the raised metal piece, yet the Primos Mini-sonic domes work fine. I tried one of Carlton's new "Native" reeds this year, and I struggle to get sounds with it. Yet it looks identical to his old calls.

It's really hit and miss for me, so I stick with what I know works. I'm just afraid they're going to discontinue them because I like them so much.
 

ElkNut1

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Tony, in our APP & our DVD Mastering Elk Calls we cover that very subject in detail on how to know what reed to choose per individual. Bottom line, reeds come in 1/2" & 5/8" sizes. If you have a bigger than average pallet like 5miles then go with 5/8" -- If you have an average to smaller pallet go with a 1/2" reed. Too, choose a single reed, stay away from doubles & triples until you are comfortable with using a reed & producing decent cow & bull sounds, they are more user friendly! -- If you feel the need to trim a reed it's most likely you have too big of one, get the 1/2" -- Lots of reeds out there, most hunters prefer the Pallet Plate design.

How much experience do you have using mouth reeds?

ElkNut/Paul
 

colobow

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Rocky mtn elk calls don't give actual measurements but in the description they describe them as small, medium or large.

I bought one of each to get the right size.


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ElkNut1

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I deal with 1000's of reeds a year & have yet to see anything that wasn't a 1/2" or 5/8" -- This is the width of the frame not the frame & tape. The tape on varying models can slightly differ.

CiKOl -- what reed or reeds do you have at present, are they no more that a couple months old?

ElkNut/Paul
 
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CiK01

CiK01

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Rocky mtn elk calls don't give actual measurements but in the description they describe them as small, medium or large.

I bought one of each to get the right size.


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I guess that is my frustration with the whole thing. I don't want to buy 3 of them to end up throwing away $16 worth of elk calls that don't fit. Just seems there would be a better way or a higher demand for sizing information.
 

ElkNut1

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Do you have an average or smaller pallet or do you have a larger than average pallet? It's about as simple as that! -- You did not mention how long you've been using reeds? This is important. It will require aprox 4-6 weeks of 15 - 20 minutes a day practice before you start getting pretty good & having good control over a variety of your sounds. After that time frame there's still plenty of work needed in polishing things up! (grin) As I mentioned above, you really need to check out the info we provide, it's very detailed. It will show your reed positioning for specific sounds & tongue placement on your reed for specific sounds, so yes there is info out there you just haven't gotten it yet!

Above all, don't think you're going to buy a mouth reed & you are immediately going to produce elk sounds like bite & blow cow calls or bugles! Doesn't work that way. You will go through a few mouth reeds before you start getting decent with them. Once you get good you will find you can use about any reed out there but you will favor some over others because of fit & sound quality! -- I think you are fairly new to mouth reed use & expect much quicker results?

ElkNut/Paul
 
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CiK01

CiK01

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I actually believe I am alright at the bugle and cow sounds with the Raging Bull. I have been practicing off and on for two years.

My frustration isn't that I am new. My frustration is when I want to try another other than the Raging Bull, its a crap shoot in what I am getting....and I end up throwing them away because they don't fit my mouth right.
 

ElkNut1

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Fair enough! The Raging Bull is a 1/2" reed. Stay with 1/2" reeds! There are the Mellow Yellow, Mistress, Challenge, Closer, etc. These are 1/2" models. They are all pallet plate reeds like the Raging Bull. There are other brands out there that are similar that you may like better but you will only find out after trying them! For example I like the Mellow Yellow & Mistress, both are great single reed diaphragms. You need to make sure you have them in the right spot to begin with. Here's some info that may aid you!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


When using a Palate plate reed the part of the reed with the shed roof or dome goes up towards the palate & the latex faces towards front teeth, these type reeds are not intended to bend or shape to ones mouth, they are to be used as is. If non palate plate reed you'll generally notice a small bump on one side of the reed in the frame about center where vinyl covers top part of horseshoe. Most these reeds with this bump will face towards the palate not the tongue but quite possibly can work either way if a single reed. (this can vary from call maker to call maker) If double & triple reeds make sure the layering where you can see them stair step face up towards your palate not down for best results. These types of reeds can be shaped to ones mouth or at times slightly trimming of the vinyl tag for best fit & feel. Don't get carried away on the bending or you will have a saggy or lazy latex if bent in. If bent to your desired fit it may be necessary to pull apart the opening of the horseshoe open end to tighten latex to achieve like new condition.

Too, I like nibbling or chewing on nearly every reed I use when it's new before putting on my tongue & lifting into place. This softens the canvas vinyl like a wet T-shirt so it molds to your palate & dams all air from escaping as well as softens edges & corners so they aren't poking at your gums. Do not chew on the latex itself.

All this can take a minute or two depending on what's needed to soften material. The first time will take the longest & from there it's pretty easily done with continued use.

Before there's any bending, trimming or shaping on non palate reeds you must know where the reed goes! Here are a few points to consider. The reed is not clamped down by your back teeth or any teeth for that matter. Now allow the right & left corners of the vinyl tag to slightly rest against top inside front teeth. The very front of the latex or horseshoe opening should be in the proximity of the ridge or cleft of your palate, the mouth reed itself does not touch your front teeth so it's actually 3/4" or so from teeth, only the corners of the vinyl should be touching inside of top teeth or gum line. You can use center of tongue as contact point on latex for more subtle sounds as cow calling or smaller bull sounds. Tip of tongue, front or the back of tip portion can be used for louder bull sounds as lip bawls or long range location bugles.

ElkNut/Paul
 
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CiK01

CiK01

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The Raging Bull is a 1/2" reed. Stay with 1/2" reeds! There are the Mellow Yellow, Mistress, Challenge, Closer, etc. These are 1/2" models. They are all pallet plate reeds like the Raging Bull.

ElkNut/Paul

To help their consumers, I guess I just thought the manufacturers would list this type of information on the descriptions of each diaphragm they sell. This information you provided helps tremendously in the meantime. Thanks Paul.
 
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If you like the Bugling Bull, try the Mistress and move the call forward in your mouth just behind your teeth. Great call. The all star isn't bad either.
 
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CiK01

CiK01

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Found this on Elk101's website. Thought it might help someone out.

BuglingBull.jpg
 

ElkNut1

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The small & medium calls all have the 1/2" frame! The third row has 5/8" frames. If average to narrow palate, use 1/2" for best results-- If larger pallet use the 5/8" for best results.

ElkNut/Paul
 

ElkNut1

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Just adding this for clarification! The difference between the small & medium sizes even though they both have 1/2" metal frames is the Small's have the narrow plastic domes & the Mediums have the hair wider metal roof/pallet plate.

ElkNut/Paul
 
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CiK01

CiK01

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Trying to expand my mind....I bought 3 Phelps AMP calls and they are all bigger than the Raging Bull I am use to using. Great calls, but they just don’t fit right for me.

Can anybody recommend a call that fits similar to the Raging Bull but with a latex that lasts a little longer? I tend to wear those out quite fast.

Tony


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ElkNut1

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Tony, the Raging Bull has a 1/2" wide opening. What size opening are the Amps? They are 1/2" or 5/8" -- measure the opening that only exposes the latex. Too, the amps have a plastic rounded dome & the Raging Bull has the metal sorta shed roof pallet like a truss roof. Too, with wearing calls out in short order shows me you are being pretty aggressive with them mostly for Challenges & Lip Bawl Bugles. You will most likely wear about any reed down with that type of aggressive practice! With more controlled practice you will achieve reed management for total control of air, voice inflection & tongue pressure you will find a balance in those 3 & realize you can be aggressive without beating a reed up too bad which can last longer!

ElkNut/Paul

ElkNut/Paul
 
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I guess I need to buy an instructional DVD or something. I just bought my first elk call, for next year's elk hunt, and the only sounds I can make are high pitched. So far I sound more like a turkey than an elk. I bought the All Star.

Of all the YouTube videos I've watched, not a single one explains how the reed works. Maybe it's too simple a question.

Just my 2 cents and worth the price charged.
 
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CiK01

CiK01

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Tony, the Raging Bull has a 1/2" wide opening. What size opening are the Amps? They are 1/2" or 5/8" -- measure the opening that only exposes the latex. Too, the amps have a plastic rounded dome & the Raging Bull has the metal sorta shed roof pallet like a truss roof. Too, with wearing calls out in short order shows me you are being pretty aggressive with them mostly for Challenges & Lip Bawl Bugles. You will most likely wear about any reed down with that type of aggressive practice! With more controlled practice you will achieve reed management for total control of air, voice inflection & tongue pressure you will find a balance in those 3 & realize you can be aggressive without beating a reed up too bad which can last longer!

ElkNut/Paul

ElkNut/Paul

Roger that!

The AMPS are 5/8”. I am going to buy a dozen more Raging Bills and call it a day. :)

I will practice less aggressively. Win-win....sounds like it will make them last longer and make the wife happier. :)

Tony


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