Who's elk is this?

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

This reminds me of the old question; If a man jumps off a 50 story building and on the way down he is shot through the heart by someone on the 40th floor is the shooter guilty of murder since the man was about to die anyhow ?

People are going to be people, 90% of them are reasonable and 8% are not, that leaves 2% that are nut bags that should be locked up for their own good or that of societies...point is I ain't gonna die over it and I ain't gonna hurt anyone over it.

Percentages are estimates and ACME Inc claims no responsibility for the veracity of these assertions whether real or imagined.

Ethically speaking we need to know how far the shot was on the moving target to cast judgement.

 

[BullElk]

in my opinion the bull belongs to hunter number 1. I'm pretty sure hunter 2 knows that as well. not too sure how he could sleep at night knowing he took someone else's bull and also ditched the arrow. if the arrow wasn't hidden I might have a different opinion on the matter.

this story is very similar to the 406" bull shot in Idaho a few years ago.

 

[dotman]

I have to agree the bull belongs to hunter 1 but man this is strange. If I was hunter 2 I would have probably shot the bull as well since it was a nice bull and wounded. I would have cut it up as well but man I would have thought it weird what hunter 1 did. I would give it up to hunter 1 but request a backstrap.

So what does hunter 2 do about his tag? His has been punched, would a game warden reissue his tag?

 

[Swede]

Based on what I read in a law library years ago, the rightful owner was the first shooter. He got a lethal arrow in the bull and was able to recover it. Anybody can shoot a dying bull, but the right thing to do in this case is give it up to the original shooter.

 

[elkyinzer]

Happens quite a bit out East here where our hunter densities are about 1,000x what they are in the West. I personally know a few people that have been involved in this situation and nearly was involved in one myself once.

There's a lot of gray area, and it becomes quite emotional in sorting it out sometimes. It doesn't say where first shooter hits but it certainly doesn't sound like it was in the boilerhouse. Typical consensus is the killing shot is the trump card, but it's a total douchebag move not to give up the animal if the other guys shot was lethal and the animal was dead on its feet.

 

[robie]

This is a one sided story. Just like most journalism today.

Nothing sounds right about the story and I find it hard to believe the 1st hunters version. Show me a picture of both shots and a picture of where the arrow was. I also want to see the blood trail.

A gut shot can be a mortal wound if given enough time. If he hit it in the heart or a double lung shot he would have just followed the elk after a 30 minute wait.

If anyone was in the 2nd shooters position you would shoot the elk. If I saw an arrow sticking out of it I would feel terrible for the animal and if I didn't I would have no clue that the elk had been shot unless a pile of blood was running down the side. We are all examining this like we have 10 minutes to decide to shot an elk or not.

Most cases with a bow you have a small window and you take your shot.

 

[LandYacht]

I don’t understand leaving after you’ve shot. I understand letting a bull have some time, but to just leave the area totally is something I’ve never thought to do. The only time I’ve ever left an animal after a shot was when it was too dark to see and it’s been getting bumped by me out of its death beds. I suppose if I hunted places that I could go to town and pick people up and be back in an hour that may be different, but a half hour one way usually gets me closer to where I parked.

Part of me wonders if the arrow didn’t fall out of the elk and into that bush as it ran to its death, because I can’t imagine even trying to act like any animal was mine had I taken an arrow out that had been a lethal shot. I’d take pictures to show where the arrow was prior to taking it out too.

It would be interesting to hear the other side of this story. The first shooters side really doesn’t add up and maybe the picture would be more complete with the second perspective.

I really wouldn’t be too invested in a bull that I recovered if I discovered that someone else had already put a killing shot on it.


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[BullElk]

I don’t understand leaving after you’ve shot. I understand letting a bull have some time, but to just leave the area totally is something I’ve never thought to do. The only time I’ve ever left an animal after a shot was when it was too dark to see and it’s been getting bumped by me out of its death beds. I suppose if I hunted places that I could go to town and pick people up and be back in an hour that may be different, but a half hour one way usually gets me closer to where I parked.

Part of me wonders if the arrow didn’t fall out of the elk and into that bush as it ran to its death, because I can’t imagine even trying to act like any animal was mine had I taken an arrow out that had been a lethal shot. I’d take pictures to show where the arrow was prior to taking it out too.

It would be interesting to hear the other side of this story. The first shooters side really doesn’t add up and maybe the picture would be more complete with the second perspective.

I really wouldn’t be too invested in a bull that I recovered if I discovered that someone else had already put a killing shot on it.


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I hear you and agree with mostly everything. I think the difference here is that he shot this bull on his private property. he went to get his family etc and give the bull time. the story doesn't really sound too shady if you sit back and look at it. id like to hear the other side though.

 

[LandYacht]

I hear you and agree with mostly everything. I think the difference here is that he shot this bull on his private property. he went to get his family etc and give the bull time. the story doesn't really sound too shady if you sit back and look at it. id like to hear the other side though.

I can see that, but I thought they’d left and went onto BLM and that’s where they shot the club bull.

I don’t think the story is shady, just much different from how I would have acted after the shot. Not saying my way is right either.


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[WesternBounty]

We always hope people will do the right thing, but today more than ever people just don't.

I hope this never personally happens to me, although hunting public land it has crossed my mind as a terrible nightmare.

I'm with you Robby, if I know for a fact that animal didn't die because of my shot- the person I am I wouldn't claim that animal.

 

[Swede]

It is entirely possible the local newspaper is biased, but all we can go on is what we read here. There is no plaintiff and defendant giving their testimony.
The point was made by the game warden, that the first shooter basically forfeited his right to the bull by walking away and abandoning it. I don't agree. Did I abandon my personal property when I left a trail camera up in the forest? How about my tree stand or even my tent? If the first shooter had a killing shot in the bull, and he would have recovered it, it is his. As I understood the story, the answer to both of these is yes. If we change the story we can make it a no, but that is not what we have here to go on.

 

[Rich M]

I've only had something like this happen once - my first deer. Shot it, blood everywhere in snow, immediately trailing it - deer gets up and runs into hunting partner who shoots deer too - thru spine. 3rd member of our 4 member party shows up and declares an even split of the deer between the 2 shooters. Then comes back to me a week or so later - he had hunted the area again and seen the blood trail - told me it should have been mine due to the amount of blood. Had it not been 2 15 year old kids shooting their first deer, I'm sure an older fellow would have shaken the younger fellows hand and congratulated him on his first deer - either side of the story. It was a very disappointing way to get my first deer.

All that being said - The first guy messed up and the second guy did what anyone would have done. If the second guy waited an hour and backtracked the blood trail trying to find the other hunter - found no-one, then notched his tag and started the butchering process - IMO it's his.

 

[Molon Labe]

Facts of the story that are important if indeed they are facts:
The bull was 100yds from shot. They were back within 1hr. His arrow was stashed in a bush.
There were 6 guys on the kill!

Something does not add up.

So when have you ever been on an elk hunt with 6 guys and you shot a bull and were able to get all 6 guys to the kill within an hour of you letting the arrow fly in an area with "spotty" cell phone coverage...

So they were able to get everyone to the elk...take pictures etc...tell the story...punch tag...start taking the animal apart in under an hour?
Absolutely no way. Every kill I have been on of a "trophy" animal...we spend time admiring the animal, take pictures, tell the story to the guys just arriving. That is after letting the animal expire...
These guys were in a hurry to get this thing taken down and out of the area.

Here is what I think happened:
First hunter double lungs bull (based off description of hit) backs out to get family to help since bull is dead. Very logical because...close to their private land...they have two bulls hit and there is no way they are packing them out between the two of them if it is getting warm out.

Then two of the six hunters (most guys hunt in pairs not group of 6) see the bull possibly walking or maybe bedded down...this would have to be within minutes of the other guy hitting the bull.
Shoot the bull...if indeed they did shoot it when it was still alive.
See that it has an arrow jammed through ribcage and fresh blood still pumping out...realize that someone is going to be here shortly to get this bull. Plus seeing the other bull run off with an arrow in its shoulder they knew there were hunters close. Immediately get the rest of your friends over because there is going to be a fight over this thing.
Pull 1st shooters arrow out and tuck it into a bush to hide it.

The second group of hunters acted pretty shady on this thing and they are the ones that are going to have to live with stealing another guys bull. These guys are obviously not outdoorsmen or sportsmen in any regard. This will be in the back of their minds for the rest of their lives. They have to live with it and that is their punishment. Every bit of burger they take from that bull will remind them. Every time that guy looks at the skull it will remind him.

What they should have done is asked the warden to reissue tag to the guy that burned his tag...then he could keep hunting.

My uncle had a whitetail "stolen" by a neighbor back in 1982. He double lunged it with a rifle. Ran across the road 100yds. Neighbor shot. Neighbor ran down to the buck and tagged it with their "party tag" back then you got 1 doe tag for every 4 guys. He kept the buck for 25yrs. Uncle and him were talking back in 2007 at the grocery store neighbor said "you know what...im going to give you your buck back" dropped it off at my uncles house a day later. It weighed on him for those 25yrs we think.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Is it a fact they were back in an hour?

Honestly I have a hard time imagining that even if a short drive to town. You still gotta walk out, drive to town, folks need to get ready, drive back, and hike in. I'm just suspicious on the hour timeline claimed to be honest and wouldn't consider it a fact unless proven to be so not just claimed by one of the frustrated people in the incident without any rebuttal available from the other side.

 

[Piscatory_4]

No game animal is worth dieing over, if the second hunters want to fight for it let them have it. If I was the second shooter and found the arrow in it I would have waited for someone to show up and then offered to help them get it out if they were receptive. If nobody showed up for a while I would have opened up the carcass to cool it then tag it as my own. If the first shooter then showed up...IDK what should happen-time to call a game warden to sort out the outcome. First shooter gets animal and second shooter gets a new tag or the second shooter gets the animal and first shooter gets to keep hunting. Game warden becomes the 3rd party arbitrator and his decision is binding.

 

[missjordan]

The whole situation is very unfortunate but the first party in my opinion should of waited for the animal to expire, dressed it out, and properly tagged it before going to get help. At least if the second group of hunters wanted to steal still it the game wardens would of probably favored the first group more. I️ personally wouldn’t of left the bull until I knew for sure where it died. I’m not saying they needed to push it either, but they should of kept tabs on it until it expired


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[elkstabber]

From reading the story it sounds like Grimsrud (the first shooter) is a younger, newer hunter. He also lived very close by and knew that particular bull. This makes it completely understandable why he would leave the bull and err on the side of caution.

The second party allegedly shot the bull also. They clearly covered up the fact that a lethal arrow was in the bull. Maybe they looked around for the original shooter and maybe they didn't. The hidden arrow makes it seem like they probably didn't try to find the original shooter and were probably trying to get out with the meat as fast as possible.

The Game Warden did the right thing. The second party was required by law in MT to tag the elk before any cutting. Since they tagged the bull it legally became their possession. The Game Warden couldn't have handled this any other way. The Game Warden is bound by the law.

Legally, this played out the way that it should have. Ethically, it sounds like the greedy group of six simply bullied the young hunter out of his trophy, and I hope the hunting gods make all of their shots miss.

 

[AGPank]

Had something like this happen with what wouldn’t have been my first whitetail. I had a small buck walk right to my blind. I took a 8 yard shot between the front shoulders. Arrow exited behind front shoulder. I watched buck run off. I waited 45 minutes to trail buck. I followed blood for several hundred yards and the blood disappeared (slow tracking over another hour or so). I searched the area until dark and didn’t find the buck. On my way back to the truck I came across hunters who had my buck loaded on their game cart. (Same rack same unique shot placement). There were three hunters, I mentioned tracking a buck I couldn’t find. They said they shot it.

I was partially relieved the buck didn’t go to waste. Not sure if I couldn’t find it because the got to it first or if I ever would have found it. I wasn’t going to start an argument with 3 hunters.


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[Scoony]

Yes, facts do matter, but there seems to be a lot of assumptions being made towards both sides. I think that generally, the person that puts the animal down and takes possession, owns the animal. Everyone has different opinions and arguments on ethics and morals can be made on both sides.

A few years ago, I came across a pair of hunters looking around at the ground. Walked up to see what was going on. They had shot a 10 point and could not find blood. I helped search for a little while but we never found any blood. The next weekend, I was back in that area and jumped a buck and was able to get him to stop with a whistle, took the shot and down he went. When I walked up to him, he was a 10 point with the front left leg hanging on by a thread with a wound that looks a week old. I killed that buck and took possession so it was mine. I did see their truck and left a note as I was leaving to let them know what happened. Hope they didn't think I was an ass.

 

[DEHusker]

The 2 buddies’ story is full of red flags. Laying your bow down while chasing or following a wounded animal? Plus, The whole account of a conversation to shoot a bull while the bull was at 14 yards is bogus too.

I’ve heard variations of this story a few times through the years. I still can’t believe people act this way with regard to the taking of an animal. It only illustrates how cutthroat hunting as become. Stupid.