And here it comes...

[Crippledsledge64]

I think one of my first posts was asking for help picking a unit. At the time, I was naive and didn't realize it was such a faux pas. I deleted that thread after being made aware of my mistake.

What would have been helpful is to be pointed in the direction of the CPW statistics for DAUs and GMUs to pick a unit, and the hunt atlas to further refine potential spots in a unit.

We can point newbs to the raw data sets and let them comb through it to pick their own spots without giving away the spots and knowledge we worked to acquire.

Colorado Parks & Wildlife -
Hunting Statistics

https://ndismaps.nrel.colostate.edu/indexM.html?app=HuntingAtlas

Same here, when you're starting out I don't think most realize what they're really asking. I think there's a difference between pointing a new guy in the right direction through pm's and raw data in a respectful way as opposed to bashing someone who has no clue and turning this place into a forum full of arrogant jerks. That said, those that use forums to just mine info and then check out ruins things for everyone.

 

[Beendare]

Oh man....great thread......Epic? I dunno, but funny for sure......some of you guys are hilarious....

 

[Southforkguy]

Yeh, there was this guy:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." -Socrates (469–399 B.C.)

SOCRATES!! Like bill & ted pronounce it lmao

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

It’s unfortunate all the way around, the same thing is happening on fishing forums. They are a place to learn, but giving specifics to people that have done zero work just ruins it for everyone, and won’t even really help the guys asking. If they don’t know how to hunt they’ll just blow everything out of there anyways.

It’s much different giving general helpful information like “This time of year elk are feeding on the greenest browse at higher elevations. They might not be bugling but find a food source and they’ll be around it.” A guy that has some experience can actually take that information, apply it, and be successful, without telling everyone and their brother “Unit 99 is on fire, definitely check it out!”

 

[bluetick78]

Funny comments on this thread! Great stuff. Seriously though, I remember talking to a game warden about 20 years ago near Salmon, Id. My dad was prying trying to get a location of some elk out of him, and the wardens response was timeless. He told my father that the Fish and Game could sell lots of tags because they counted on 10% of the hunters to kill 90% of the game that was harvested in any given season. Same with fishing. I'm sure we've all heard this anecdote before. Then he said "if someone ever invents a system to transmit the locations of the deer and elk to tons of other hunters, we are all in for lean times." I believe it has been invented, now it is up to each of us to be judicious with its use. There are those out there that will try to make money selling information about big game. I will, on occasion, help someone who is struggling. But in the end, the internet info will cause decline in big game herds by allowing hunters who would otherwise be unsuccessful to harvest animals on another's advice en masse. This will lead to a decline in non-resident and eventually resident opportunity. We've seen it in several Western states, and most others are discussing it. Just be careful what you ask for....

 

[cnelk]

Who da thunk that this thread woulda took off like this?
An eye opener for many I’m sure

There ain’t any secret elk hunting spots anymore.
But for damn sure don’t ask specifics on forums

For those that do ask, be it here or any Wildlife agency, just remember that the same info you get is being said to everyone that asks.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

For those that do ask, be it here or any Wildlife agency, just remember that the same info you get is being said to everyone that asks.

The one time I called a DWM and took his advice I was in for the most crowded hunting day I remember being on. That’s probably the last time I’ll be doing that. If anyone else follows Newberg’s content, I believe the same thing happened to him on his Arizona elk hunt with Jerry Pritchard. They can definitely be valuable resources and I have nothing but respect and appreciation for them. I just don’t prefer to ask them for specific spots because those spots tend to turn into pumpkin patches.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

I think people also need to realize the guys in the east ate saving all of their vacation time and money to spend 5 days out west. Things happened when i got out of school and i ended up living in the east but would give up everything except my marriage to live in the west, and that’s what it would take. So, you guys that live out west are out there all the time and some of us have to get all the info we can and make use of it because 5 days is all we get to spend out there every year. In 5 days it’s hard to learn a unit very well.

Now i understand there are things to ask and not to ask but if i have a question i pretty much don’t care who gets mad if i ask it. If it gets answered great, if not, am i any worse off, no one here will no who i am when i get out there.

As far as research goes, i have had terrible luck calling and talking to people. I had a friend from montana who was good friends with the biologist i got drawn for as a 3rd choice, when one big company told me i didnt need to put in for a third choice as i was sure to get of my first two. Tbe biologist told me not to go, too many people, very few elk, my first diy hunt by myself. Killed a 5x5 and saw 1 other pair of hunters in 10 days.

People are always looking for quick answers and im not saying its right but what does it hurt to really ask.

The following year that same service gave my name to someone who drew the tag, i gave him all the info i had. You never know when helping someone is gonna help you in-the. long run


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[Goodtimekiller]

I think people also need to realize the guys in the east ate saving all of their vacation time and money to spend 5 days out west. Things happened when i got out of school and i ended up living in the east but would give up everything except my marriage to live in the west, and that’s what it would take. So, you guys that live out west are out there all the time and some of us have to get all the info we can and make use of it because 5 days is all we get to spend out there every year. In 5 days it’s hard to learn a unit very well.

Now i understand there are things to ask and not to ask but if i have a question i pretty much don’t care who gets mad if i ask it. If it gets answered great, if not, am i any worse off, no one here will no who i am when i get out there.

As far as research goes, i have had terrible luck calling and talking to people. I had a friend from montana who was good friends with the biologist i got drawn for as a 3rd choice, when one big company told me i didnt need to put in for a third choice as i was sure to get of my first two. Tbe biologist told me not to go, too many people, very few elk, my first diy hunt by myself. Killed a 5x5 and saw 1 other pair of hunters in 10 days.

People are always looking for quick answers and im not saying its right but what does it hurt to really ask.

The following year that same service gave my name to someone who drew the tag, i gave him all the info i had. You never know when helping someone is gonna help you in-the. long run


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And i meant to say, i found out later, the biologist commonly hunted the area he specifically told me not to go to because it had few elk and lots of people.


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[wannakillabigbull]

im not saying its right but what does it hurt to really ask.

I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure this whole thread has been about what it actually does hurt to ask the wrong info in the wrong place. That’s been my understanding of this thread.

 

[KSP277]

And i meant to say, i found out later, the biologist commonly hunted the area he specifically told me not to go to because it had few elk and lots of people.


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I’m sure he just got the 2 confused!

 

[KSP277]

Where I live we had a pretty sweet state management area. Archery only, always has been. It’s had little pressure from locals and out of towners for years and always had good deer on it. Till about the late 2000s when face book went bazerk. Guy from Alabama came up shot a big white tail, put pics all over the internet. Next year 5 guys from Alabama kill a few deer over 150 in there. The 3rd year everybody with a bow and a drivers license in Alabama migrate to Kentucky. Then the leasing of all the neighboring private ground, then leasing anything in the county that’s available. Talk about a viscous cycle. It’s what broke me from rifle hunting in my own home county.

There’s 2 sides to all of it I know. Guys in Alabama come up and want to shoot a big whitetail I get that. Who doesn’t. Most are good guys and hard not to like. They’re there to hunt and not step on toes. And then you get a few flipperdicks that just came up to drive there Polaris around and shoot at everything with horns. And that makes you wanna cut tires on everything with outta state plates.

And it all started with a picture of a dead buck on facebook.

 

[huntstrong2850]

Unfortunately social media and forums like this one don’t just affect elk and mule deer hunting, it happened in my state gradually over the past 5-7 years for whitetails as well.
What used to be one of the best counties in the state to kill a 150-160 whitetail has turned into basket racks and 120’s because of posts. So being from the east myself and seeing the impact of it I get this thread a lot...
for those here from the east and those saying they saved their vacation for this 5/6/7 day elk or deer hunt then you should of saved for that scouting trip also. As I did and have done several times now. Fly out spend time in the Unit even if it’s 2 years prior to drawing. Having first hand knowledge often allows you to have better questions that get you some better help when you do draw that tag. As I’ve gotten here a lot was really good info because I’d done work prior to asking and not just drawn a tag to a unit I’d never seen before.
Lazy won’t get you help from the older guys but a trip or two with out tags to scout that’ll often get you a few people willing to throw you a bone and point you in a good direction. Which today is all you can ask for and should be grateful for it.


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[Goodtimekiller]

I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure this whole thread has been about what it actually does hurt to ask the wrong info in the wrong place. That’s been my understanding of this thread.

So people can bash him on a thread, but no one knows who he really is, if no one gives him information what has he really lost? But if someone happens to see a post and respond to help him out, by pm or on a thread, he has gained something. So, once again, what does it hurt? I guess the feelings of the people on this thread. I’m just guessing but if someone is going to post info on here about a spot, they are probably blabbing to lots of other people and the secret spot really isnt all that secret. Ive never asked for help by posting because i figure 75% of people wont help, 24% will give you bad info and 1% might or might not help, depending on the day. So ive called and scouted and talked to locals once i got there.

And i’m just saying, right or wrong, some people are going to ask because they figure they might get some help but if they don’t thats info they didnt have anyway.

So who wants to help me out in idaho this year?


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[KSP277]

Huntstrong I agree. I know come September I’m headed to a unit in Montana I’ve never stepped foot in. If I come home empty handed it won’t be from lack of trying. I can’t and won’t have opportunity to scout it prior to getting there. But it’s been one helluva an excuse to shoot my bow more, buy a little bit of gear, and get in better shape. Saved some coin and bought a good pack. Strapped 85 lb of concrete to it and take off on a walk about whenever I get the opportunity.

That being said I joined this forum about the time I started looking for a unit to try out but never asked about the unit bc regardless of what’s happened in that unit, or any other, since the begging of time is mostly irrelevant until your boots hit the ground. I’m sure places are historically better than others. But a week in the woods bow in hand is already a success in my book. Thanks to the internet and Montana F&W stats, I know there were some elk killed there last Year and currently it’s not on fire. So far so good.

 

[mproberts]

I think they already have all but said that...

"Another key aspect of successful hunters that fits within this box is that they seem to be connected. By connected, I mean that they tend to have a network of hunting contacts that they utilize to get information. Information is everything. I can recall a number of times when a tip from a hunting buddy or forum changed the course of my hunt. Reach out, ask questions and get connected." -gohunt

Honestly though I think one of the main reasons most people are on a forum like this is to become a better hunter and success is a measurement of that. The problem is that for some people (especially the east coast guy that is planning his first trip out west) it is hard to realize that learning the skills of western hunting is exponentially more important than being told where to go hunt by someone knowledgeable. I feel like those guys that ask about spots just don't know they are asking the wrong questions to be successful. There is soooo much information and solid recommendations on here about how to be a better western hunter and if people just focused on that they would be a lot better off anyways.

Just noticing a different trend...how long until eastmans and gohunt will recommend creating an account on RoK/OYOA/etc solely for the purpose of not having a recent join date when you make your first (or 6th) ever post 5 years later asking about unit such and such?

 

[Beendare]

Looks like Cnelk nailed it......4 threads right now in this section alone asking for advice......Nev,NM and CO

 

[amassi]

Looks like Cnelk nailed it......4 threads right now in this section alone asking for advice......Nev,NM and CO

This^^
I've never understood putting in for a tag with ZERO knowledge of a unit, or at least a general understanding of how to develop a pattern. No wonder it's getting so hard to win the lotto.
I've drawn tags I probably shouldn't have applied for, but once we had boots on the ground were able to figure it out.
I think by providing too much info, we may be robbing these new hunters of valuable "lessons learned"
I hope those posters devote gasoline and boot leather to the cause and report back, at least their threads will only add an additional 10,000 applicants next year.

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[codym]

This^^
I've never understood putting in for a tag with ZERO knowledge of a unit, or at least a general understanding of how to develop a pattern. No wonder it's getting so hard to win the lotto.
I've drawn tags I probably shouldn't have applied for, but once we had boots on the ground were able to figure it out.
I think by providing too much info, we may be robbing these new hunters of valuable "lessons learned"
I hope those posters devote gasoline and boot leather to the cause and report back, at least their threads will only add an additional 10,000 applicants next year.

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The best ones are " I didn't even know I put in for that unit, but since I did whats the trophy quality?"

 

[philos]

There is a policy. As in anything in life. If you don’t want to respond don’t but you don’t have to ridicule someone for asking. I think when someone asks and no one replies that tells them all they need to know. “Google it and find out”. My point is I don’t want this board to become like so many others and become hostile. This is generally a good group with very few whiners.

I realize it can be a bit annoying when someones asks questions that could be answered with a little research-but what is worse is when someone posts something to belittle or criticize the person for asking. If you don't like the post ignore it and move on. When you post something negative in response it only makes you look like a jackass.

EVERY single hunter had to start somewhere. There is a polite way to tell someone they need to do a little homework. I am headed to a few areas in Wyoming & Montana soon and plan to scout for 3-4 weeks. I will not tell folks anything terribly specific but I also will not ostracize anyone for asking.