308 copper bullet experience (or other moderate speed cartridges)

[RCB]

I'm strongly considering copper bullets in my .308 for antelope, deer, elk. I like the idea of not risking lead ingestion, and helping out the environment is a nice bonus. This is my first year hunting so I have no experience or prejudice regarding any bullet.

I'd love to hear some first-hand experience on elk with copper bullets in .308 - or other cartridges of comparable velocity. I ask because evidently copper bullets perform best at high velocities (lower ranges are variously quoted at 1800, 2000, even 2200 fps), but the 308 is not a particularly fast cartridge. With 165 grain bullets in copper (what I usually shoot), I'll probably be at ~2100 fps at 300 yards from 22 inch barrel (I'm looking at Federal Trophy Copper - my gun seems to like Federal premium ammo). I'm wondering if I should be worried, if I should step down to 150 gr, etc.

So: for those of you who have shot elk with copper in moderate-speed cartridges - how did it go? Thoughts about performance compared to lead? Any reason to be concerned about 165 grain? Any "never-again" experience?

Do point me to another thread if this question has already been answered.

 

[6mm Remington]

If it were me I would use a 150 gr. copper bullet in your 308 such as the 150 gr. Nosler E-tip. This would help keep your speeds up a bit and because these types of bullets typically retain a lot more percentage of their weight, they penetrate like nobodies business and perform like they were a heavier bullet to begin with. I have not yet used any E-tips in my 30-06 but am considering trying them out. That being said in my son's one 6mm Remington I load a 90 gr. Nosler E-tip in this cartridge. It shoots fast and flat and he has taken several antelope, a nice mule deer buck, and a large cow elk at 350 yards with one shot using this load. Now how is this for performance. He hit her tight against her right shoulder the bullet exited out the center of her left shoulder!! She went about 20 yards and tipped over! I'm sold on the performance of the E-tips on game.

I'm a big Nosler fan and that is all I load in my rifles. That being said in addition to using the Partitions, Accubonds, and E-tips on game animals I have done tests shooting all three of these bullets into gallon water jugs lined up at various distances so that I can measure expansion, weight retention, and penetration. I have been very impressed with all three of these different Nosler bullets. I have shot these into the jugs at 25-100-200-300-400, and 500 yards. Besides being a whole heck of a lot of fun, it's excellent practice and certainly a confidence builder when a person can see how well a particular bullet does in his rifle.

I hope this helps.
David

 

[mcseal2]

I'm trying Nosler 180gr E tips out in my 300 win mag this year for a moose hunt. If they perform well I'll probably stick with them for elk too, they shoot really well. I have shot out to 600yds with groups I'm happy with. I'm curious to see the answers to your question. I have taken elk to 600yds with lead bullets and I'm curious what speed I need to draw the line at to keep enough velocity for good terminal performance. Nosler says they expand to 1800fps but I want some margin, I'm thinking 2000fps right now which I'd hit around 550yds.

I am trying the E tips just because I like exit wounds and I haven't always got them with Accubonds on the bigger stuff. The ones I recovered had mushroomed perfectly and retained 60% or more of their original weight, but they create such a big mushroom they don't always exit. The Partition seemed to shed more of it's front and exit more often. I have other rifles for smaller stuff I want exits on elk and larger game.

I'm trying the E tips because I've had good luck with Nosler and because they supposedly have a deeper cavity and expand a little more readily than some of the others. Also the BC is pretty good although Nosler BC's tend to be exaggerated a bit. I was consistently needing to click up 1 extra 1/3 MOA click at 330yds and 2 extra at 600yds past what the computer said I should using their BC and my velocity. I gathered data for a yardage turret for my scope and shot various ranges, now I just need to get it here and test it.

 

[mcseal2]

If it were me I would use a 150 gr. copper bullet in your 308 such as the 150 gr. Nosler E-tip. This would help keep your speeds up a bit and because these types of bullets typically retain a lot more percentage of their weight, they penetrate like nobodies business and perform like they were a heavier bullet to begin with. I have not yet used any E-tips in my 30-06 but am considering trying them out. That being said in my son's one 6mm Remington I load a 90 gr. Nosler E-tip in this cartridge. It shoots fast and flat and he has taken several antelope, a nice mule deer buck, and a large cow elk at 350 yards with one shot using this load. Now how is this for performance. He hit her tight against her right shoulder the bullet exited out the center of her left shoulder!! She went about 20 yards and tipped over! I'm sold on the performance of the E-tips on game.

I'm a big Nosler fan and that is all I load in my rifles. That being said in addition to using the Partitions, Accubonds, and E-tips on game animals I have done tests shooting all three of these bullets into gallon water jugs lined up at various distances so that I can measure expansion, weight retention, and penetration. I have been very impressed with all three of these different Nosler bullets. I have shot these into the jugs at 25-100-200-300-400, and 500 yards. Besides being a whole heck of a lot of fun, it's excellent practice and certainly a confidence builder when a person can see how well a particular bullet does in his rifle.

I hope this helps.
David

What velocity would you consider minimal for good expansion hunting with the E tips? Thanks.

 

[rileybassman]

For all copper, I would go 150 tops for a .308... maybe even 130s...

In my 06 I can get mid 3300s with 130s... I would think a well loaded .308 with 130s would be in the 3000-3100 range.

 

[RCB]

For all copper, I would go 150 tops for a .308... maybe even 130s...

In my 06 I can get mid 3300s with 130s... I would think a well loaded .308 with 130s would be in the 3000-3100 range.

Have you shot elk or deer with those loads? How have they performed?

 

[rileybassman]

Have you shot elk or deer with those loads? How have they performed?

Never have with a 130... with the 06' I use 168s primarily at 2950sh... been devastating on both deer and elk. Wife has killed deer with 150s in the mid 3000s with an 06' as well. Same story. Haven't recovered a bullet out of 3 elk, and maybe 6-8 deer between the two of us using copper bullets. This winter my elk was 200 yard, complete pass through, bang flop. Great bullets for sure.

All these copper bullets were Barnes fyi

Edit to add - with mono metal bullets, speed is your friend.

 

[rileybassman]

barnes load data shows some pretty good velocities for .308 and 130s... mid 3100s should be relatively easy
150s in the 2900-3000 range - that might be a good compromise honestly is the 150s.
https://www.barnesbullets.com/files/2017/07/308WinchesterForWeb.pdf

 

[RCB]

I don't reload, so will stick to factory rounds. Sounds like the answer is that I should see how 150 gr factory copper rounds shoot in my rifle. If they shoot well, probably prefer them to 165.

 

[rileybassman]

I don't reload, so will stick to factory rounds. Sounds like the answer is that I should see how 150 gr factory copper rounds shoot in my rifle. If they shoot well, probably prefer them to 165.

That's where I would start if I was you.

 

[Mr Drysdale]

I shoot 150 gr Barnes TTSX in my 308 A-Bolt. I don’t know how fast they are shooting but I have killed several Whitetails DRT.

 

[belly-deep]

I agree with what others have said. 150 grains.

I killed one buck with a 150 GMX out of a .308. Worked very well.

In addition to impact velocity, higher muzzle velocity also helps crank up the RPMs, which many believe help copper bullets expand.

 

[ReddingArcher]

I dont have experience on elk but have some on deer and an antelope. The animals I had from 20-150 yards were down either instantly or spun a circle and went down within a few seconds. The only negitive experience I had was on a buck at 400 yards, complete pass through behind the shoulder and he ran about a hundred yards. No blood on the ground or on him and had I not been in a burn I am not sure I would have found that deer. With that said I was pushing a 150 grain Barnes tsx too slow to begin with out of a 7mm-08, but thats what the gun shot best. I should have tried some different loads but had it in my head I wanted the 150 grain. This year I am going to try them again but in the 120's and see how they do on my deer and antelope hunts and possibly a elk hunt in Colorado.

 

[GIS]

I've been shooting the Barnes TTSX for 3 years in my 308 with great results. First two years I shot two elk (60 & 100 yards) and a mule deer (30 yards) with the 168 gr. Last year I shot an elk at 200 yards with the 150 gr. All dropped within a few feet of being shot. I'm sticking with the 150 gr for the extra velocity.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Cahunter805]

I'd stick to the 150gr TTSX as long as your rifle shoots them good. If not the E-tips would be a good second choice.

 

[67bronco]

I shoot copper in all my rifles except my 45/70 where I shoot hard cast. My 243's shoot 80gr TTSX's well and Ive yet to catch one. Just bought some 130 TTSX's for my encore pistol 30-06. Hadnt tried any yet but I'm sure they will work well. I'm a barnes fan. I like 2 holes in my animals. They usually don't go far that way in my experience.

 

[wakoski]

I've been shooting the Barnes TTSX for 3 years in my 308 with great results. First two years I shot two elk (60 & 100 yards) and a mule deer (30 yards) with the 168 gr. Last year I shot an elk at 200 yards with the 150 gr. All dropped within a few feet of being shot. I'm sticking with the 150 gr for the extra velocity.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

GIS - Where are you hitting them with these shots?? Is that with a high-shoulder shot or the behind the crease? Thanks!

 

[67bronco]

GIS - Where are you hitting them with these shots?? Is that with a high-shoulder shot or the behind the crease? Thanks!

I used to shoot behind the crease and still do with 45/70 but with my 243 high shoulder is the way to go. They drop! or whitetails anyway, no experience with elk. From ones ive shot with the barnes, very little meat damage either compared to ballistic tips, corelokts etc. Several of us have switched to barnes in one flavor or another and if your gun likes them, they are hard to beat

 

[wakoski]

I used to shoot behind the crease and still do with 45/70 but with my 243 high shoulder is the way to go. They drop! or whitetails anyway, no experience with elk. From ones ive shot with the barnes, very little meat damage either compared to ballistic tips, corelokts etc. Several of us have switched to barnes in one flavor or another and if your gun likes them, they are hard to beat

That seems to be a common choice. It is my first season with my 6.5CM and will be using copper. Going after Blacktails in CA and was concerned with the potential meat loss with a shoulder shot. I was also concerned with punching right through at close range... A shoulder shot would eliminate that.

The 120 TSX works well with my rifle.

 

[67bronco]

You should be golden then.