Handgun for bear

[b0nes]

Time to beat the dead horse i guess. I recently posted about getting a new carry gun for the woods and other in a 45. I live and hunt in grizzly country and have always wanted a 454 cassul carry gun for the woods. Can't afford one so I was looking at a 45 and I already own a 9mm. I grew up in Alaska and spent 20 years there and interacted many times with interior grizzlies and coastal brown bears. I've been looking at the 9mm vs the 45 in real ballistics from buffalo bore ammo. The 147 9mm comes out at 1100 fps and the 45 cal 255 comes out at 900 fps. Per their information the 9mm has a c h shy of 400 foot pounds and the 45 comes out at 465 foot pounds of energy. Aren't we splitting hairs here? I've heard all these stories of "A 9mm won't even break through a grizzlies skin". Obviously if it came to a disagreement with a brownie i would prefer a 7.62 mini gun, but between a 45 and a 9mm that has lower recoil and quicker follow up shots isn't it kind of a moot point or am I crazy? And yes I've read every story out there along with the statistics of violent confrontations with bears.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

Why not a 40 or a 10 if you want to go with an auto?


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[b0nes]

I already have a 9 and I need someone to talk me out of the need to buy a new firearm, don't get me wrong the 10 was my first impression but a lot of what I read was that if you're going to shoot factory ammo with a 10 you may as well shoot a 40. I drew a really good elk tag in Nevada this year that I'm trying to save money for. So before I bought i did a sh!t load of research before I went out and bought and it just seems like other than the 10mm +p rounds we're splitting hairs between 9mm, .40, and .45 when it comes to hard cast bullets and loads.

 

[Mike7]

It seems that there may be a lot of unsubstantiated or misinformation on this topic for various reasons. I believe that it was the following podcast that I listened to which made the most sense to me, and it actually aligned with my own handgun/bullet penetration results when shooting at/through wood.

Consider listening to this podcast before you make a decision. From personal experience, the 9mm 147 gr +P hardcast rounds (like those sold by Doubletap & Buffalo Bore) seem to penetrate really well. The notion that they wouldn't penetrate bear hide would seem laughable to me, but admittedly I have never shot them into an actual live bear skull. Apparently though if I am remembering this podcast correctly, a student from the below instructor's class did shoot a bear skull, and dropped an attacking grizzly with a single 9mm hardcast bullet to the head.

Grizzly Bear Survival and Defense Tactics — Hunt Backcountry Podcast Episode 121

 

[Muttly]

I get fooling around with different rounds, powders, and bullets, get curious to see how much, if any penetration I,m getting. Hardcast, vs jacketed, and whatnot.
Not entirely, or even very, scientific, I like to get old propane cylinders, empty, and test different bullets. 45s, 44s, haven't had a 500 for a few years, haven't tried a 357.
If a particular round leaves a large dent, with no penetration, core and jacket separation, I don't get the warm and fuzzies. If a round goes through one wall, stays in the tank, can usually increase velocity till it goes through both sides ,within reason.
Conversely, if a round goes through both sides, but I know I pull the gun to the right or left unless I am really concentrating, because the grips just don't fit my paws, that gun stays at home.
Circling around to saying, in my opinion, if you have a gun that aligns with your natural point of aim, test the desired caliber with different bullet types and velocities against a similar media till you at least have a reasonable belief it will perform as expected.

 

[Randle]

It seems that there may be a lot of unsubstantiated or misinformation on this topic for various reasons. I believe that it was the following podcast that I listened to which made the most sense to me, and it actually aligned with my own handgun/bullet penetration results when shooting at/through wood.

Consider listening to this podcast before you make a decision. From personal experience, the 9mm 147 gr +P hardcast rounds (like those sold by Doubletap & Buffalo Bore) seem to penetrate really well. The notion that they wouldn't penetrate bear hide would seem laughable to me, but admittedly I have never shot them into an actual live bear skull. Apparently though if I am remembering this podcast correctly, a student from the below instructor's class did shoot a bear skull, and dropped an attacking grizzly with a single 9mm hardcast bullet to the head.

Grizzly Bear Survival and Defense Tactics — Hunt Backcountry Podcast Episode 121

Thanks for posting mike. I just listened to the podcast .I usually carry .45 bb Hardcast or 9mm BB Hardcast when in the woods I guess I will just go with the 9 . Smaller and lighter . I have always carried for dogs wild and feral. Sounds like 9 mm since I have it will do just fine in Glacier park when we go. I also like the kydex sheath that came with the spray I bought last year for glacier. Anyway the podcast was very interesting . Sounds like they put alot of time into testing ammo and guns.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

Carry whatever makes you feel confident. I’m bringing a 44 Special loaded with 250 grain Keith bullets in front of 18 grains of 2400. Hopefully none of us actually need what we carry.


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[CTobias]

If you already have a .45, then look into a Rowland 460 conversion. I have two, and they are great. Especially in a 1911 frame. My Glock 30 conversion is great because of the amount of ammo I can carry, but you wouldn't want to put 100 rounds through it in one day at the range.

 

[30338]

Alaska Man Kills Charging Brown Bear with a 9mm Pistol

 

[TauPhi111]

Man this horse is so dead...but I will still beat the piss out of it cause it's fun. This year I got a Glock 20 in 10mm that'll likely be my woods defense gun for decades to come. Out of all the commonly available auto rounds, I think this is the best for griz defense. I debated A LOT between the 10mm and the 460 Rowland, and I eventually decided on the 10. If you get a G20, you can also have a 45 with just an extra slide.

The final nail in the coffin for me on the debate was a video of an Underwood 220 grain hardcast 10mm load going through 14 gallon water jugs lined up and keep on going. If that can't break grizzly bones, IDK what will.

 

[MillCreekMike]

What Mike7 said. If that's what you have, (9mm) load it with some hard cast +P rounds. I went 10mm, My local gun store has 7 used Glock 20s for sale. I just picked up a 29 & I'm looking to sell my g20 as well, so deals on used ones are out there.

 

[SoDaky]

Have shot a lot of 'test' ammo with both Glock 9 and 10mm.With Underwood both are nasty on creasoted 12 inch hardwood posts.Aged,tough ones.!0mm are nastier though.
9 easier to carry and shoot and that makes it tough for me but for now,sticking with the 10.

 

[howl]

Hard bullets penetrate well from just about anything. They'll kill the bear. The question is whether you or the bear will live longer after receiving mortal wounds. In order to avoid the wounds, you have to interrupt the CNS, which involves breaking bones break the animal down such that it cannot get to you, which also involves breaking bones. What are we talking about that does that well and does not have a buttstock?

If you're familiar with brown bears and are considering a 9mm, I'm guessing you don't take them as a serious threat. So, carry whatever you like best!

 

[FLAK]

My preference is a Glock 30SF with a KKM barrel, 23 lb spring on a SS
guide rod and loaded with 255 gr. Buffalo Bore .45 Super.

 

[SoDaky]

Pretty simple.Use the 9 if not going to buy a 10 or bigger.Hard to quantify a difference between them in any meaningful way in terms of 'breaking them down' with ANY pistol.Prayer and luck involved absent a big buttstock and even then stay current on your prayers if they 'start' from close range.

 

[ATX762]

With a handgun, you're only going to stop the thing with neck or head shots anyway. The off switch you need to hit is very small in a huge ass rolly polly animal. A deep penetrating light recoiling load seems like the ticket. It's a small target so you're probably going to miss a lot, regardless, given the circumstances. A hardcast 9mm probably hits it about hard as it needs to be hit. I usually carry a 44mag because I feel comforted by how hard it hits a steel plate, but every time I've been close to a grizz, with the 44 magnum in my hand, it's obvious that any handgun is sort of a joke.

 

[howl]

Long time ago, USFWS used some brown bear skulls for testing of rifles cartridges. Cracking skulls reliably did not happen until they got to .338 Win Mag or better.

 

[realunlucky]

Long time ago, USFWS used some brown bear skulls for testing of rifles cartridges. Cracking skulls reliably did not happen until they got to .338 Win Mag or better.

Do you have a link to this? I find this truly hard to believe but I don't how thick the skull is.

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[Jet-Tac]

Stay with the 9mm unless you're willing to go to a 10 or higher. Nobody ever came out of a gunfight saying they brought too much ammo, I prefer the capacity abilities of the 9mm and in the case of Grizz I would think you shoot it enough and it will deter. Although hopefully you or anyone else doesn't have to test this theory.

 

[Formidilosus]

Long time ago, USFWS used some brown bear skulls for testing of rifles cartridges. Cracking skulls reliably did not happen until they got to .338 Win Mag or better.

With expanding bullets of the day. Hard cast 9mm will go through any skull on the planet.


The the last time I was in grizzly country and within 10m of a very aggressive sow and get two cubs, I had a G19. Zero issues in that moment with the pistol I had, and the most concerning thing I had in my mind was having to explain why I killed a grizzly.


ALL pistols poke holes. That’s it. Animals and tissue are not steel, and the difference in holes between a 9mm and a 40/10mm or 45 auto in tissue is less than the thickness of a nickel.