Kimber Montana vs. Tikka T3x Superlite vs. Savage 16 LWH (308)

[Davesphizikal]

I own a savage and used it once. Like others have said, the action of the bolt just isn't as smooth. I would rather suffer carrying a heavy barrel rem 700 sps 308 I built instead of the weight savings I had with the savage. One more thing to consider with the accuracy portion is that most new rifles will shoot great. You'll just need to find the right ammo. Even factory. Especially with the variety you can get with a 308, you can find a factory round that'll shoot great. Some guys are stubborn and won't stop shooting a certain round and would rather blame the rifle instead of the poor matching of ammo. Case in point: when finding a round for my newest 308, I tried 9 different brands, weights, velocities until I found one that shot the best. Turns out, it was one of the cheaper rounds. Lots to do with bullet weight, velocity, and barrel twist rate. You can read more on that with other threads. Just my 2 cents.

 

[airlocksniffer]

I'm running a T3 in 30-06. Shoots better than I can. Kimber is a nice gun but almost too light IMO. Haven't shot the Savage but was considering that before my wife bought me the Tikka for my birthday last spring. I think you'd be happy with any of those guns though.

 

[ReddingArcher]

I know you did'nt ask about it, but have you looked at the Kimber Hunter? You mention you're not crazy about a brake like the Mountain Ascent has and the Hunter does not have a brake. These seem like a great option to have when looking for a light weight rifle. I don't remember off the top of my head what the Hunter weighs but I want to say its under 6 pounds. With a Leupold you could be all up with a 7 pound or a bit less and come in under $1500.

I do love Tikkas as they are incredible shooters for the money, but those Hunters do look like a handy rifle that will make its way into my safe at some point!

 

[Rorschach]

Thanks, all, for the replies. 100%

I hear a lot of you saying or implying that a smooth action is of non-negligible benefit. What is the practical benefit of a 'smooth' action, such as would not apparently be found on many Savage rifles?

Redding, I have checked out the Hunter line of Kimbers, and if those got as good of accuracy reports as the higher-end Kimbers, it'd definitely be in the running. But, at this point, I'd also be a little nervous at the prospect of ordering a Kimber anything with some folks here reporting 1.5" best-case accuracy, and other various reports of "meh" accuracy. I was hoping someone would come along and say this was unfounded, due to there having been a spate of spotty Kimbers at some point in the past, since which has been dealt with and corrected, or that it was the lower-end Kimbers which had a reputation for inconsistent accuracy.

elkguide - it looks like you have pretty positive experience with the Montanas. Are any of yours of relatively recent manufacture?

 

[Yellowknife]

I hear a lot of you saying or implying that a smooth action is of non-negligible benefit. What is the practical benefit of a 'smooth' action, such as would not apparently be found on many Savage rifles?

A smooth action is more of a "feel" thing. Rough or smooth, they will all kill just fine. But if you are going to split hairs, I prefer the slickest action I can get.

Part of that is just because of the way I shoot. After a few too many defensive shooting classes I work a gun from the shoulder and usually have the second round on it's way hot on the heels of the first. Rare for me to make a "one shot kill" anymore, just because I tend not to wait for a reaction. If you are like most hunters and dismount the gun to work the bolt and watch the reaction... probably not that important.

Other "feel" items to be considered are the the safety (I like the Kimbers best, and the Savage second), the trigger (I prefer the Tikka, but the others are ok), stock ergonomics and material (I like the feel of the Kimbers fiberglass, but the pistol grip shape on the Tikka).

Any one of them is going to shoot good enough to kill animals at the range a lightweight rifle is used at. Wouldn't sweat 1" vs 1.5" off a bench, because statistically speaking your field shooting skills with a light rifle are going to have a far larger effect on point of impact than the inherent mechanical precision of the rifle. If you field shooting gets to the point where 1.5" is a major handicap... then you are going to be looking at a completely different class of gun (and likely not a .308).

I personally bought a Tikka because when I needed a gun it was half the price of a Kimber and money was an object. It's not perfect, but have had zero reason to regret the choice. A little more money in the bank at the time, and I might have come home with a Kimber and been just as happy. Best to handle them all and make your choice in the store.

 

[martin_shooter]

Redding, I have checked out the Hunter line of Kimbers, and if those got as good of accuracy reports as the higher-end Kimbers, it'd definitely be in the running. But, at this point, I'd also be a little nervous at the prospect of ordering a Kimber anything with some folks here reporting 1.5" best-case accuracy, and other various reports of "meh" accuracy. I was hoping someone would come along and say this was unfounded, due to there having been a spate of spotty Kimbers at some point in the past, since which has been dealt with and corrected, or that it was the lower-end Kimbers which had a reputation for inconsistent accuracy.

I recently went over the same options (went with a tikka) and somewhere in the hundreds of threads I read noticed alot of complaints of older Montana's shooting 1.5". I believe Kimber started a 1" or less guarantee and those complaints were greatly reduced. I'm certainly not a rifle expert or an authority, just sharing something I gleaned from a similar search.

 

[Davesphizikal]

Smooth action- with all of the effort you put into getting out on a hunt and the difference between you coming home heavy or eating tag soup comes down to you efficiently putting another round in the pipe, I'd take the efficiency of a smoothly operating bolt. There's a reason the Mauser style of bolt has yet to disappear after all of these decades.

 

[luke moffat]

Thanks, all, for the replies. 100%

I hear a lot of you saying or implying that a smooth action is of non-negligible benefit. What is the practical benefit of a 'smooth' action, such as would not apparently be found on many Savage rifles?

Redding, I have checked out the Hunter line of Kimbers, and if those got as good of accuracy reports as the higher-end Kimbers, it'd definitely be in the running. But, at this point, I'd also be a little nervous at the prospect of ordering a Kimber anything with some folks here reporting 1.5" best-case accuracy, and other various reports of "meh" accuracy. I was hoping someone would come along and say this was unfounded, due to there having been a spate of spotty Kimbers at some point in the past, since which has been dealt with and corrected, or that it was the lower-end Kimbers which had a reputation for inconsistent accuracy.

elkguide - it looks like you have pretty positive experience with the Montanas. Are any of yours of relatively recent manufacture?

I am not sure what you are referring to high end Kimbers and them shooting better. Every Montana I have will shoot atleast something 1" or better. However being like you and really only shoot inside 400 yards I would rather hunt with a bullet I want that shoots 1.5" than some other bullet like a SST or something that goes 1".

Personally I would much rather haul a "rough" action savage ultralight than a smooth action heavy Remington around on a backpack hunt. A Kimber hunter for $650 plus $50 talley rings and a $300 leupold VX-2 3-9x40 should get you a 6.5 pound scoped rifle for $1000.

 

[luke moffat]

Smooth action- with all of the effort you put into getting out on a hunt and the difference between you coming home heavy or eating tag soup comes down to you efficiently putting another round in the pipe, I'd take the efficiency of a smoothly operating bolt. There's a reason the Mauser style of bolt has yet to disappear after all of these decades.

Of the three rifles he is looking at easily the smoothest once is NOT a Mauser action. Tikka actions feeding out of the that single stack magazine are about as smooth as they come.

 

[elkguide]

Thanks, all, for the replies. 100%

I hear a lot of you saying or implying that a smooth action is of non-negligible benefit. What is the practical benefit of a 'smooth' action, such as would not apparently be found on many Savage rifles?

Redding, I have checked out the Hunter line of Kimbers, and if those got as good of accuracy reports as the higher-end Kimbers, it'd definitely be in the running. But, at this point, I'd also be a little nervous at the prospect of ordering a Kimber anything with some folks here reporting 1.5" best-case accuracy, and other various reports of "meh" accuracy. I was hoping someone would come along and say this was unfounded, due to there having been a spate of spotty Kimbers at some point in the past, since which has been dealt with and corrected, or that it was the lower-end Kimbers which had a reputation for inconsistent accuracy.

elkguide - it looks like you have pretty positive experience with the Montanas. Are any of yours of relatively recent manufacture?

The .300WSM is a very early Montana, while the .270 WSM and the 7mm08 are both newer. All will shoot better than I can. Since you're looking for a hunting rifle and not a bench gun, any of the choices that you have mentioned will serve you well. The rough bolt on the Savage will polish quite easily with a little time and some polishing compound. Safeties are different along with the stocks.

My advice would be to get out and handle each of them. I'm a bicycle rider and a friend of mine is a pro rider. He is sponsored and gets some amazing ($10k +) bicycles to ride. He has let me ride some of them and his favorite one just doesn't fit me well so it wouldn't be my choice. A rifle is a tool and that tool has to feel good in your hands to make it one that you can do your job well with.

 

[matthewmt]

Anyone have experience with the savage 16-116 fcss? The weather warrior looks like it has some nice features with the accu stock trigger and stainless combo.

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[JollyRoger]

Definitely get out and see which one feels best to you. I love almost everything about the Kimber Montanas on paper, but havent shot one yet. I have shot a Savage 111 a lot... it is rough and just not a good shooter. I know plenty of people love their Savages, but mine isnt one of the good ones. Make sure to check out whatever you get thoroughly before you start shooting it. My Savage definitely needs some work to get shooting right.

The Tikka T3X I just picked up feels sweet and doesnt show any of the issues my Savage has (stock/barrel fit mostly). Havent shot it yet though, and that's where it matters.

 

[Rorschach]

luke - Thanks for the reply. What is your take on the Hunter vs. the Montana or Ascent, then?

 

[Jimbob]

All three will shoot what you want I believe. I have read enough to have complete confidence in a Kimber rifle if I was buying one. So your next priority is weight. The easy answer is that Kimber will be lightest then savage then tikka.

Budget fits a kimber so just choose your liking, Hunter, Montana, Mountain ascent or Adirondack. I would go with the adirondack. It would be amazing to carry and do what you want under 400 yds.

I have a tikka in 30-06 (no point in going to .308 with no weight savings) because it fit the budget and it performs. I am very happy with it. My dad just purchased a Savage LWH in .243. It came in overweight but shoots amazing, sub 0.5 moa with cheap factory ammo. Most accurate gun I have ever shot actually. It handles great but the bolt is definitely rougher compared to my tikka.

 

[rileybassman]

Anyone have experience with the savage 16-116 fcss? The weather warrior looks like it has some nice features with the accu stock trigger and stainless combo.

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Yup - lots of threads on them here.

Between my wife and I we have 2 116s (mine has a B&C stock, hers the accustock) and a 16 LWH.

All sub MOA, all smoothed out quit a bit with a shooting or two, and some cleaning. I would call them smooth actions now...

The 16 LWH was the roughest when I bought it, but a couple shootings, cleanings, and some tuff glide, and it is smooth now.

Accu trigger is nice - not everyone's cup of tea with the two stage sear blade, but we like them. Once the sear blade safety is pulled back, it functions just like a normal trigger and has a crisp, no creep break.

I have shot/watched shot 5 different savages in different calibers (30-06, 300 WM, 6.5 CM, and 7-08) and all of them were sub MOA guns.

They are very utilitarian - some say ugly - but I love them. My model 70 is like a les paul - Elegant, refined - the Savage is like a telecaster - utilitarian, and practical

 

[Rorschach]

I'm more heavily considering a Kimber, given the input from all of you.

However, I was just looking at the specs on Eurooptic and they're saying that the twist is 1:12 for all the 308 Kimbers.

Is this an issue? I'd like to shoot bullets in the heavier range for 308 if possible, but this twist looks like it's on the slow end for those.

 

[Yellowknife]

Vast majority of .308's are 1:12 I believe. Should shoot up to 180 just fine. Might be iffy with some 200 gr+ and/or longer copper bullets, but those usually aren't found in factory rounds anyway so you should be good to go.

 

[luke moffat]

I'm more heavily considering a Kimber, given the input from all of you.

However, I was just looking at the specs on Eurooptic and they're saying that the twist is 1:12 for all the 308 Kimbers.

Is this an issue? I'd like to shoot bullets in the heavier range for 308 if possible, but this twist looks like it's on the slow end for those.

My .308 win Kimber would stabilize 200 grain accubonds, partitions, sierra game kings, and woodleigh weldcores. Velocity is roughly 2550 fps from a 20" barrel. Likely get 2600 fps if you keep it at 22".

 

[JFK]

Savage actions feel rough when they are brand new sitting on the wall in the gun shop. Take them home, wipe bolt with some clp, go out and shoot it a bunch, and it becomes very smooth. Maybe not the smoothest out there but pretty darn smooth. Feeling one in the shop and saying savages don't have smooth actions is not an accurate statement.

 

[MTHunter20]

Anyone have experience with the savage 16-116 fcss? The weather warrior looks like it has some nice features with the accu stock trigger and stainless combo.

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I just sold a 116 FCSS in 300 Win Mag. I love the gun, I just don't need a 300 WM for what/how/where I hunt. They're not in the same weight class as the other rifles mentioned in this thread. But they are on the lighter end of standard weight rifles. The action on mine is smooth. Don't remember it ever being real rough, but after working the bolt a bit and cleaning it's real smooth. Savages do have a bit of play in the bolt, but that doesn't bother me much. They shoot great and I really don't think they're ugly either. Just simple maybe.