GA Precision

[FURMAN]

GAP seems reasonable because gunweks and MOA prices are through the roof. I can't figure out how they charge so much. If you buy a custom rifle in the $4000+ range you are literally throwing money away. Even GAP, LRI, Beanland, and all the other big names are priced a little high but you get to do that when you're one of the biggest names in the game. If it were me I would figure out what you want for componets and contact a gunsmith in your area. The truth of the matter is the guy working by himself in his garage will build you the same rifle as one of the big name rifle builders.

This could not be more incorrect. Look, your budget is your business and yes there are some great rifles at lower price points but I can assure you my $4000.00 rifles blow away any $2000.00 rifle I have owned or seen. Like dotman said some components add up to 3k. Accuracy from a bench is not the only thing that matters in a hunting rifle especially if you start stretching the distance of your shots. Ergonomics and weight become a huge deal.

 

[Fire_9]

This could not be more incorrect. Look, your budget is your business and yes there are come great rifles at lower price points but I can assure you my $4000.00 rifles blow away any $2000.00 rifle I have owned or seen. Like dotman said some components add up to 3k. Accuracy from a bench is not the only thing that matters in a hunting rifle especially if you start stretching the distance of your shots. Ergonomics and weight become a huge deal.

Ok I forgot to mention carbon barrels and Ti components. Price obviously goes up for that stuff. So lets look at a gunwerks rifle. Base price is $5750. Package price with a nightforce is $9000. Please explain to me how that is not getting absolutely raped. What is your criteria of one rifle blowing another rifle away? I could give a shit less how people spend their money but I like to point it for people that may not know any better.

Price list for a custom build

Action- $975 Stiller
Barrel- $350 Bartlein
Stock- $600 Manners
Trigger- $250 Jewell
Bottom Metal- $150
Recoil Lug- $30

Total- $2355

Chamber/Thread- $300
Muzzle Brake installed- $150
Bedding- $150
Cerakote- $250

Total $3205

Nightforce- $1800

Total $5005

I may be missing something in that parts list but it gives you an idea of where I'm coming from

 

[FURMAN]

I personally can not justify a $9000.00 rifle but I do see why someone could but your first statement was not $9000.00 it was $4000.00. In your price list I would say you are missing around $200 in shipping and I have all my rifles fluted. Some people would rather be hunting than messing with ordering components and doing load development. I live in Kansas and can not be out scouting and hunting where I would like to be so it is not a big deal to me. If I were in prime country I would be a lot less likely to be messing with rifles as much as I do. I definitely feel there is value in just ordering a rifle you know will shoot. My most expensive rifle is $5000.00 scoped. I doubt I will ever spend more than than but I can see why some would. Now, when I think of rifles I think of long range capability. If shots are going to stay in the 200-300 yard distance I can't even see spending more than $700.00 To each his own.

 

[Fire_9]

Even at a bare rifle price of $4000 you are paying a premium for a big name. Not saying that's a huge deal but when you get into the price of gunwerks or MOA rifle, the prices are crazy. And as far as using loadwork as the excuse for charging that much, I think it's a crock. I will admit that I have nothing to base this on but I highly doubt they are truly doing load work for each rifle. I would assume they have pet loads for each caliber and they consider that their 'loadwork'. A custom rifle will shoot just about anything you feed it. In my opinion if you don't have enough time to do loadwork, you don't have enough time to be 'long range capable'. It would take me about an hour to sit down and order parts or better yet just have your gunsmith do it but I see your point. I've spent countless hours researching this stuff so it probably seems simpler to me that it is for someone just getting into it. You hit the nail on the head though...to each his own.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Fire_9, I looked at their site, and they certainly make some beautiful rifles. I notice that all have the 1/2" accuracy guarantee but they state it is "When using match grade ammunition". What exactly do they consider "Match Grade"? Premium hunting ammo might not be considered "Match Grade"?

 

[Shrek]

Believe Shrek had them do some work for him. BTW where is Shrek????Miss the big guy....

I'm around occasionally but I've been busy with life. I had John Whiddon put the barrel on my Winchester and I was very satisfied with his work. I've never bought anything from GAP. I'm currently putting the pieces together to be able to build my own rifles. I have a lathe and I'm picking up a vertical mill I bought this Sunday. Got the permit for my new shack today and once the house is in place I'll build a shop to put the machines in.
My next rifle build will have an astronomical price if you count all the equipment I'm buying ! $3000 for a custom rifle is cheap !

 

[GKPrice]

I have been following this thread but I didn't think I'd add any comments, I was wrong - If a person is building a rifle to compete with, just plug your ears because not much of what I'm gonna say will matter or be appreciated

How is a Stiller, Defiance or any other "custom built" action one tiny bit better for a "hunting" rifle than a Remington or Tikka and that's if you're looking specifically for accuracy with no "huntablilty" mixed in (which would have to include "clunkers" like a model 70 or ?? - I've not owned a Bartlein barrel but their rep precedes them, as do Hart, Lilja, Douglas, PacNor, Kreiger, and a host of other awesome barrels - OK, stocks I get, that's the "handle" and a "one fits all" approach isn't always satisfactory - Jewell triggers are fantastic ... on a target rifle or a varmint rifle (owned several for that purpose) but when your fingers are COLD, you're shaking from the cold and your icy baboon breath is fogging the scope and maybe causing moisture troubles with all of it, how will a Jewell trigger give you any better "feel" or break than a Tikka trigger ? They will adjust down to the 2 lb area (if you really think you need that light of a trigger in a HUNTING rifle) and will out perform your shaking cold fingers I expect - Gunsmiths charge what they charge, who am I to question that just because I have a close friend who, even though he wrote the book on "old school" also has some integrity when it comes to pricing his work, maybe not all of us can find or have a friend like that, but I do - He shoots long range and still, upon request, will build you a beautiful exotic wood stock that will flat shoot, right along with any rifle you care to put up against his, and he'll still happily build whatever he's asked to and for a very realworld cost - I am not, nor would I ever be, here to tell another what to spend his or her money on, that's "not my dog" nor should it be anyone else's, a lot of these threads seem to me to take on a sense of who can top who on outlining the cost of building the next space age rifle - maybe at least some thoughts on what exactly it is that is being asked in the Thread Title would give many of us the chance to just sit back and allow you to "well, this costs more than that does" bunch an honest chance to compare their "whatevers" - and THIS is in the context of a HUNTING RIFLE as the OP apparently intended - Hell, alot good benchrest rifles don't even have a safety !

 

[GKPrice]

Fire_9, I looked at their site, and they certainly make some beautiful rifles. I notice that all have the 1/2" accuracy guarantee but they state it is "When using match grade ammunition". What exactly do they consider "Match Grade"? Premium hunting ammo might not be considered "Match Grade"?

what you might want to look for is a gunmaker who will guarantee 1/2" groups with whatever factory ammo the guy that put out the $3000 - $6000 wants to try .... or is this where that guy just buys one for each and every load he chooses to shoot ?

 

[Laelkhunter]

I was just wondering if they get 1/2" with Match loads, but I want to hunt Elk with the rifle, a Match bullet wouldn't work too well. If on the other hand, Match loads produce 1/2" groups, but Premium hunting loads can only produce 1 inch groups, then as others have said, why pay even $3000 for their rifle when you can get the same or better accuracy for under a $1000 in several other off-the-shelf brands while using the hunting load? AND not have a 6 month lead time for a custom rifle?

 

[4ester]

Running Factory Fodder with a GAP or other precision rifle is like putting training wheels on a Ferrari.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[4ester]

what you might want to look for is a gunmaker who will guarantee 1/2" groups with whatever factory ammo the guy that put out the $3000 - $6000 wants to try .... or is this where that guy just buys one for each and every load he chooses to shoot ?

How could a gunsmith do this when some of the factory ammo is produced by such poor quality. I would understand if they specified a specific match grade manufacturer (Like Federal Gold Match). I still don't understand why you wouldn't want to put the best, most consistent ammo down the tubes of a rifle that costs that much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fire_9]

I have been following this thread but I didn't think I'd add any comments, I was wrong - If a person is building a rifle to compete with, just plug your ears because not much of what I'm gonna say will matter or be appreciated

How is a Stiller, Defiance or any other "custom built" action one tiny bit better for a "hunting" rifle than a Remington or Tikka and that's if you're looking specifically for accuracy with no "huntablilty" mixed in (which would have to include "clunkers" like a model 70 or ?? - I've not owned a Bartlein barrel but their rep precedes them, as do Hart, Lilja, Douglas, PacNor, Kreiger, and a host of other awesome barrels - OK, stocks I get, that's the "handle" and a "one fits all" approach isn't always satisfactory - Jewell triggers are fantastic ... on a target rifle or a varmint rifle (owned several for that purpose) but when your fingers are COLD, you're shaking from the cold and your icy baboon breath is fogging the scope and maybe causing moisture troubles with all of it, how will a Jewell trigger give you any better "feel" or break than a Tikka trigger ? They will adjust down to the 2 lb area (if you really think you need that light of a trigger in a HUNTING rifle) and will out perform your shaking cold fingers I expect - Gunsmiths charge what they charge, who am I to question that just because I have a close friend who, even though he wrote the book on "old school" also has some integrity when it comes to pricing his work, maybe not all of us can find or have a friend like that, but I do - He shoots long range and still, upon request, will build you a beautiful exotic wood stock that will flat shoot, right along with any rifle you care to put up against his, and he'll still happily build whatever he's asked to and for a very realworld cost - I am not, nor would I ever be, here to tell another what to spend his or her money on, that's "not my dog" nor should it be anyone else's, a lot of these threads seem to me to take on a sense of who can top who on outlining the cost of building the next space age rifle - maybe at least some thoughts on what exactly it is that is being asked in the Thread Title would give many of us the chance to just sit back and allow you to "well, this costs more than that does" bunch an honest chance to compare their "whatevers" - and THIS is in the context of a HUNTING RIFLE as the OP apparently intended - Hell, alot good benchrest rifles don't even have a safety !

Dude you need to take a deep breath. We all get it, you love Tikkas. Nobody was bashing tikka so no need to defend them. I simply was putting a price list out there to justify my point of view and that price list was on the upper end or the scale. He asked why one custom gunmaker was a fair amount cheaper than another. Not 'should I buy a tikka instead of a custom'. You are exactly right that some smiths have very reasonable prices and they are just as good as some of the guys charging way more. That's why some of us said to shop around. Most people probably have a great gun builder within a 2-3 hour drive.

 

[JigStick]

People have this belief that GAP is the best ,because every one talks about GAP. GAP puts out TONS of money into sponsoring shooting events, and sponsoring shooters. Its all marketing guys. I shoot with the Pittsburgh SWAT team on occasion, and they were just completely reoutfitted with GAP rifles. And I wasn't impressed at all. Ive seen much nicer and better performing guns coming from other gunsmiths who don't pump the PRS circuit with sponsorships. VORTEX is the same way. yeah their warranty is top notch. And thats because you'll need to use it. They also spend a ton of money sponsoring people to push their product.

Any time I see someone shooting a GAP rifle I always think to myself "a sucker is born every day".

Don't take my word for it. Look up who is winning the bench rest matches, and setting world records. And see what they are shooting. And who is doing their gunsmithing. Talk to those guns smiths. Look at their hunting rifles. Check out their prices. I guarantee you its not GAP.

 

[WestNE]

People have this belief that GAP is the best ,because every one talks about GAP. GAP puts out TONS of money into sponsoring shooting events, and sponsoring shooters. Its all marketing guys. I shoot with the Pittsburgh SWAT team on occasion, and they were just completely reoutfitted with GAP rifles. And I wasn't impressed at all. Ive seen much nicer and better performing guns coming from other gunsmiths who don't pump the PRS circuit with sponsorships. VORTEX is the same way. yeah their warranty is top notch. And thats because you'll need to use it. They also spend a ton of money sponsoring people to push their product.

Any time I see someone shooting a GAP rifle I always think to myself "a sucker is born every day".

Don't take my word for it. Look up who is winning the bench rest matches, and setting world records. And see what they are shooting. And who is doing their gunsmithing. Talk to those guns smiths. Look at their hunting rifles. Check out their prices. I guarantee you its not GAP.

Goodness... Maybe I touched a nerve. My initial point was to call out that I thought GA may simply be overlooked in hunting circles and to me their prices were less than I would have anticipated.

We're talking about hunting rifles here, I'm not looking for a bench rest gun, that would be a recipe for disaster in field. I will give it to anyone building rifles to be used for hunting or PRS in that those rifles are designed to work in field conditions. That is what I am looking for.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[JigStick]

This could not be more incorrect. Look, your budget is your business and yes there are some great rifles at lower price points but I can assure you my $4000.00 rifles blow away any $2000.00 rifle I have owned or seen. Like dotman said some components add up to 3k. Accuracy from a bench is not the only thing that matters in a hunting rifle especially if you start stretching the distance of your shots. Ergonomics and weight become a huge deal.

This comment must be a joke. Price point has nothing to do with how a gun performs. You could spend $4k on a custom, and if the gunsmith used a dull reamer with 500 barrel jobs on it, and bedded the action like crap, its not going to perform better than a stock rifle off the rack at Gander Mountain. Even worse, you could just get a dud barrel that shoots like shit.

Custom actions are worth the extra $ in my book. Stock Remingtons feel rough as hell compared to my BATs. Hell, even my stillers get silky smooth with some lapping. The BATS have much thicker bolts and receivers compared to the stock actions as well. So if you are shooting some of the larger wildcats with hotter loads its comforting to know you have more "beef" were it counts. I will say though, that my factory SAKO action, is the smoothest factory action that I have.

 

[JigStick]

Goodness... Maybe I touched a nerve. My initial point was to call out that I thought GA may simply be overlooked in hunting circles and to me their prices were less than I would have anticipated.

We're talking about hunting rifles here, I'm not looking for a bench rest gun, that would be a recipe for disaster in field. I will give it to anyone building rifles to be used for hunting or PRS in that those rifles are designed to work in field conditions. That is what I am looking for.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

My hunting and PRS rifles are built by one of the best bench rest gunsmiths in the country. And I have no reservations on how they perform in the field. I even shoot them suppressed, with dirt and grit all through the actions. And they hammer. And cost 1/2 as much as a GAP rifle. My point is, do your research. You can get waaaaay more for your money, and not sacrifice any cosmetic or performance quality, by avoiding GAP.

 

[GKPrice]

Dude you need to take a deep breath. We all get it, you love Tikkas. Nobody was bashing tikka so no need to defend them. I simply was putting a price list out there to justify my point of view and that price list was on the upper end or the scale. He asked why one custom gunmaker was a fair amount cheaper than another. Not 'should I buy a tikka instead of a custom'. You are exactly right that some smiths have very reasonable prices and they are just as good as some of the guys charging way more. That's why some of us said to shop around. Most people probably have a great gun builder within a 2-3 hour drive.

Yeah right .... I "breathe" just fine - "TIKKA" was used due to the commonality of the name as well as the integrity of the design and affordable cost - I DID build in crescendo to a level not needed to make whatever point I was trying to make (which escapes me at the moment) - this particular thread isn't much different than most and it's what the forums are for - I wandered off "my" topic ..... I'll not rebut your comment but just say this ... If I were to just purchase a Tikka T3x (again, it could be a Browning or whatever) and took it straight to "my" smith with a list of the barrel, stock, and finite details my end product would be no better or worse than any other "custom build" for more or less the cost - I'd most likely have in excess of $2000 invested if the parts were all brand new, probably more, would it shoot better than the donor rifle ? maybe, maybe not - I think that where this thread went south FOR ME was when "match" popped up - I've bored you guys enough so I'll close with this, If "I" were to spend my money on a custom rifle either me and the smith would arrive at an agreed bullet type or I would specify what I expected it so shoot and to what level would be discussed and agreed upon too, what good is a "custom rifle" if it doesn't do what the BUYER wanted it to do, that would be like your cobbler telling you what size boots you were going to get from him - Forbes does it for $3600 or so, why can't a $6000 rifle be expected to do at least the same ?

 

[GKPrice]

My hunting and PRS rifles are built by one of the best bench rest gunsmiths in the country. And I have no reservations on how they perform in the field. I even shoot them suppressed, with dirt and grit all through the actions. And they hammer. And cost 1/2 as much as a GAP rifle. My point is, do your research. You can get waaaaay more for your money, and not sacrifice any cosmetic or performance quality, by avoiding GAP.

That's kinda sorta all I was attempting to say ^^^^^^^^^^

 

[GKPrice]

How could a gunsmith do this when some of the factory ammo is produced by such poor quality. I would understand if they specified a specific match grade manufacturer (Like Federal Gold Match). I still don't understand why you wouldn't want to put the best, most consistent ammo down the tubes of a rifle that costs that much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OK OK, I got out of hand with my comparison but the context is sound IMO - If I were paying for a custom HUNTING rifle I would bristle at the suggestion "this gun will shoot match ammo into 1/2" guaranteed" and any custom rifle salesman should be called out for even bringing it up, my response would be something like "I asked for a hunting rifle and I want to shoot Accubonds or GMX's or SST or whatever I reasonably expected to be able to use so show me what this gun will do in that venue or keep it"

 

[GKPrice]

Tikka rifle for donor action $650
Bartlein Barrel $350
Wildcat Composites stock $450
tune stock trigger $100
smith labor $500
muzzle brake Not needed

bullet proof optic mounts $100

SWFA SS scope $599

$2750 out the door promised to shoot bonded core or monolithics to 3/4" MOA to 500 yards = happy customer (working guy)