Bear Pistol Self Defense

[JigStick]

44mag seems to be the standard for bear defense. Have any of you considered going back to a 45 ACP and using the Liberty Civil Defense hollow points? At 78g and 1900fps + it delivers devastating expansion. It would be nice to carry my G21 instead of a large revolver. Just wondering

45 ACP Lead Free - Liberty Ammunition

Solid copper monolithic bullets which expand and fragment like you wouldn't believe.

I carry them in my CC 9mm pistol

 

[dotman]

You want a lead hardcore bullet that penetrates not something the overly expands or fragments or you'll be eaten.

I wouldn't use what you linked. A 200gr+ hardcast even if it only travels at 800ft/s would outperform a 78gr fragmenting bullet at 1900 ft/s

 

[hflier]

You want a lead hardcore bullet that penetrates not something the overly expands or fragments or you'll be eaten.

I wouldn't use what you linked.

What dotman said. Go to buffalo bore ammo or something similar. Hardcast.

 

[dotman]

Here is what I would use, if using a glock you'll need an aftermarket barrel like a lonewolf to stabilize it.
45 ACP +P 255 Grain Hard Cast Flat Nose | Underwood Ammo

If you don't want lead then I would try this and it may shoot fine out of a factory barrel 45 ACP +P 200 Grain Xtreme Penetrator | Underwood Ammo

 

[mathews8pt]

I carried Buffalo Bore in my 9mm while in Idaho. Not the caliber id want for grizzly but it was a gun i had and was comfortable with. I wasnt in a grizz area anyhow.

I shot a mag full in my glock 19 before i left and had no issues with fouling. See this for more info Hard Cast Bullets in Polygonal Barrels

 

[Jskaanland]

Have you looked at going with a G20 or G40 in 10mm? Not trying to thread jack, but that's what I'm currently looking between. I was talking to someone recently running a g20 with a 6" and he has shot quite a bit with it and loves it.

 

[PNWGATOR]

I'm not sure I buy into the solid bullet theory vs. a bullet that produces the largest wound channel (temporary and permanent) while achieving adequate penetration. In the event I have to use my sidearm in defense of life and property I want to inflict the most damage possible on target and as rapidly as possible. My goal is to stop the threat as quickly and decisively as possible. Granted, a shot in the skull with a solid might be definitive. That said, in the moment, there is a lot more non CNS target available where a well designed bullet may deliver fight ending wound channels quicker.

 

[hflier]

Bears aren't people. People are soft.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[elkguide]

Most pistols won't kill a charging grizz and trying to keep your cool and stay on target of a charging 600 pound of fury is quite a challenge. I want to make sure that I'm going to get the bear's attention as quickly and as definitively as I can.

So with that thought, even though I prefer my .41 Mag, I carry a .44 Mag when I'm in grizz country.
I worked with a guy that got chewed on by a grizz while guiding and it isn't a pretty sight.

 

[USPcompact]

I'm not sure I buy into the solid bullet theory vs. a bullet that produces the largest sound channel (temporary and permanent) while achieving adequate penetration. In the event I have to use my sidearm in defense of life and property I want to inflict the most damage possible on target and as rapidly as possible. My goal is to stop the threat as quickly and decisively as possible. Granted, a shot in the skull with a solid might be definitive. That said, in the moment, there is a lot more non CNS target available where a well designed bullet may deliver fight ending wound channels quicker.

Ignore any ideas about temporary wound channels when it comes to handguns. Handguns wound by poking holes. They are not rifles, and do not cause sufficient tissue disruption to consider the temporary wound cavity a reliable mechanism for incapacitation.

Without a CNS hit, handguns incapacitate by causing rapid blood loss. The quickest way to do this is to penetrate vital organs. Shots through the heart or liver will result in blood loss sufficient to stop an animal much faster than shots that don't pass through or otherwise penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs.

Assuming equivalent shot placement, penetration sufficient to reach vital organs is priority number one, and especially so in the case of large and dangerous game. In humans, the accepted standard of sufficient penetration is 12” in calibrated ballistic gelatin. I would double that at the very least when considering pistol chamberings and cartridges suitable for use against aggressive wildlife.

In practical terms, I want a bullet that I can accurately put on target as quickly as possible with penetration sufficient to reach vital organs from less than optimal angles. Expansion is a secondary and minor consideration, and should never take precedence over penetration. (That's what she said.)

In the real world, I also want a can of spray.

 

[elkguide]

In the real world, I also want a can of spray.

Is that so when the bear gets to close you can spray yourself down?

I've heard that most bears love the taste of bear spray marinated humans!

 

[elkguide]

Just kidding. I always carry spray along with my .44Mag.

 

[USPcompact]

Is that so when the bear gets to close you can spray yourself down?

I've heard that most bears love the taste of bear spray marinated humans!

I mean, if he's gonna eat me I at least want the sumbitch to suffer!

 

[freebird134]

Is that so when the bear gets to close you can spray yourself down?

I've heard that most bears love the taste of bear spray marinated humans!

Just kidding. I always carry spray along with my .44Mag.

In case anyone was wondering where misinformation and confusion can come from, this ^^^

Edit: that sounded more jerkish than I intended! Just joking with you

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[robtattoo]

If you'd rather keep your G21, install a heavier recoil spring & grab a box of Underwood 200gn .45 Super

It takes it to 10mm power levels (slightly over actually, depending on ammo choices) at minimal cost.

I wouldn't recommend shooting hundreds of them, but a box to get used to it + a loaded mag won't harm it in the least.

 

[Formidilosus]

Alright, I'm sure what follows is going to get people who haven't done much shooting and killing with handguns all riled up...


You have to hit vitals first, and by vitals I mean CNS. Being extremely generous- maybe an 8in target. And they only reason I say that is because it's been my general experience that when things get shot in the face multiple times they tend to leave you alone, even if not hit in the CNS.

Then the bullet has to penetrate deep enough to reach those vitals. There is no magic with pistol bullets. People shoot bears with 375's and 458's and they run off, attack the hunters, etc. There isn't a revolver or pistol that can be carried made that will touch a rifle cartridge for damage in tissue. The people that on one hand say if they had to stop a charging bear want a 375 or 458 and on the other hand think a 44mag or 454 Casull are "POWERFUL" are out of their minds.

As to wound size- if you shot an animal with a 44mag with hardcast bullet, a 45 auto with hardcast, and a 9mm with hardcast bullet, you'd be hard pressed to point out which was which. Wound channel width will be nearly the same between them. So the question is can a 9mm/40/45 with hardcast penetrate deep enough? Yes, and from alll angles. The Buffalo Bore hardcast +P 9mm rounds are ridiculous diggers and they can be CONTROLLED.

That brings us to actually hitting with a handgun during what for most will be an extremely stressful moment, probably by surprise and at a rapidly moving target. I've seen quite a few people that claim to be able to rock and roll with the big bore revolvers.... None of them could shoot fast enough and accurate enough to be using them for defense in my opinion. That includes some from Gunsight that teach big bore courses. Even reletivly trained shooters are looking at 2-3 rounds in 3 seconds on a 8in target at 7 yards with the big bores. With the same level of trainingi and practice a person can double or triple that with a regular service pistol.

If I absolutely knew that I was going to be attacked by a bear tomorrow and the only thing I could have is a pistol, I'll take a compensated, dot sighted 9mm with BB Hardcast +P's.

 

[Formidilosus]

USP has it correct.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Precisely why I'm on this forum...lots of wisdom willingly shared. Appreciate it!

 

[PJG]

Alright, I'm sure what follows is going to get people who haven't done much shooting and killing with handguns all riled up...
I've seen quite a few people that claim to be able to rock and roll with the big bore revolvers.... None of them could shoot fast enough and accurate enough to be using them for defense in my opinion. That includes some from Gunsight that teach big bore courses. Even reletivly trained shooters are looking at 2-3 rounds in 3 seconds on a 8in target at 7 yards with the big bores. With the same level of trainingi and practice a person can double or triple that with a regular service pistol.

That also includes being able to get the 1st round on target from the holster in a second or less. For everyone that is carrying for defensive purposes should go to the range and test not only the shot split times, but also the 1st shot split time.

 

[USPcompact]

That also includes being able to get the 1st round on target from the holster in a second or less. For everyone that is carrying for defensive purposes should go to the range and test not only the shot split times, but also the 1st shot split time.

Amen.

The timer doesn't lie.