Hammer Bullets - Another mono-metal option

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

So Boreal's thread on cutting edge and other barnes alternatives reminded me to follow up on some questions I wanted to ask Hammer Bullets as I couldn't find too much info on them readily. I shot them and email and Steve answered a series of my questions and provided some photos I inquired about. I figured I'd share here in case anyone had the same questions. I asked for permission to post the photos sent and Steve said sure and folks are welcome to email/call with questions ([email protected] or 406-261-0010).

I'm pretty sure I'll give their 181gr a go in the long action 300wsm I have in the works that Hells Canyon is putting together for me (Long action configuration Tikka T3x donor getting a 24" carbon barrel in 9.5twist). Sounds like the ogive shape will let me seat that bullet all the way out in a standard throat. The design is reportedly not really affected by seating depth which I'm interested to verify and will enjoy the quicker load development if that proves out. The bullet has parabolic ribs on it which reduce the bearing surface versus some other designs, reportedly delivering a bit more velocity for the pressure.

I couldn't find much for expansion photos, esp. versus velocity. Steve informed me their design is of the petal sheering off version to create a flat frontal area on the retained bullet which creates perpendicular trauma radiating out as it pushes through reportedly creating a 2-3" wound channel (similar to my experiences with the barnes LRX), the damage caused by the petals is bonus trauma. Main perk I see there is they appear to sheer off well at 1800fps still where as I like to keep the velocity up on the Barnes to peel the petals back more. The hammer hunters are intended to retain 70% weight on the bullet base traveling through and the remaining 30% is the petals doing extra trauma on their path. They apparently have another version that is being developed which will shift the retention to 40% on the bullet and 60% for the petals for those wanting more trauma on impact (see photos below) they are just testing this one currently, no animal data till after the fall.

Well that's what I gathered on it.

This is a 8mm 221g that was recoved from a long ways shot through a blacktail:

This one is reportedly a 3000fps vs a 1800fps impact:

These ones are the new one in the works:
3100fps

2500fps

1800fps

 

[awaldro7]

Maybe I am missing something....but to me it just appears like both options are just two different modes of failure. The first one has no expansion and will pencil through and the second sheds over half the mass and would not have penetration. I know these bullets have a good reputation but I have not ever tried them personally. What is the appeal to them?

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Flat front bullets don't pencil and have been used in pistols and muzzle loaders quite a bit. The bullet doesn't just pencil through, esp. at high velocity, because its not pointed to needle through meat. Its instead a flat face ramming through which will push forces out perpendicularly rather than wrap around. It was explained to me that way and in practical terms I can completely get it, think about dragging something through water a pointed edge will separate the water to flow around the object with less resistance and in turn disturbance of the water. Now drag something flat through water, it'll push a wake in front of it and ripples shoot out to the sides more so than wrapping around, that hydrostatic wake pushing through the tissue/water in the animal creates damage. They state this design ends up creating a 2-3" trauma path. I haven't seen the path first hand yet but I do get the concept and I'm not worried about typical "penciling" through that happens when a bullet fails to open for instance.

Failure mode is the same on both (the first just didn't have the petals recovered from an animal, the latter ones were from testing), its just a matter of how much retained weight is intended on the bullet base versus the petals. The first one is ~70% on the base which should create the pass through wound channel and the petals will cause a little extra trauma. The second is ~40% on the base which depending on the impact velocity and how much animal it needs to cross through it may not make it all the way through, however with 60% dumping into the petals off the bat there will be more aggressive damage done along the trauma path and might be more similar to bullets that fragment rapidly upon entry (not the same, just closer to that effect than typical mono performance). As stated above though it hasn't been tested yet on animals, that will happen this fall they state, its something they are developing right now.

The things that appeal to me are reportedly not affected by seating depth, reportedly a little extra velocity over something like the LRX design I am used to, and also the aspect I am more comfortable (in theory) with what this bullet does at 1800fps impacts versus what an LRX does. I try to hit with 2100fps+ with the barnes to get more peel back. That's what appeals but the proof will be in the pudding when I try them out.

 

[Boreal]

The videos I've seen of both the Cutting Edge and Hammer bullets fragmenting like that are pretty eye opening. An enormous amount of energy is immediately released when the bullet fragments into the petals and base. Since the petals are designed to travel on a trajectory about 30 deg from the entry plane, the initial shock is impressive. At least in ballistics gel. Check out some of their videos like this one... Cutting Edge Bullets- High Speed Ballistics Gel Shots + Kill Shot Footage - YouTube

 

[mtmuley]

Maybe I am missing something....but to me it just appears like both options are just two different modes of failure. The first one has no expansion and will pencil through and the second sheds over half the mass and would not have penetration. I know these bullets have a good reputation but I have not ever tried them personally. What is the appeal to them?

Steve at Hammer Bullets is a close personal friend of mine. Hundreds of hours have gone in to getting the right copper to manufacture his bullets. We live in Montana where there is a lot of opportunity for on game terminal testing. Hammers have taken everything from wolves to moose. Steve also is involved with a service in Africa, and his bullets have been used there on tough African species. There is no failure in those photos. mtmuley

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Maybe I am missing something....but to me it just appears like both options are just two different modes of failure. The first one has no expansion and will pencil through and the second sheds over half the mass and would not have penetration. I know these bullets have a good reputation but I have not ever tried them personally. What is the appeal to them?

awaldro7,

My name is Steve. I am the manufacturer of Hammer Bullets. I understand exactly where you are coming from. What our bullet does is not what we all grew up understanding what a bullet is supposed to. We all grew up thinking that a bullet failed if it does not have a double caliber mushroom. I have always been a bit of a tinkerer and was always in search of a better bullet. I got real tired of making a good shot on an animal and losing meat that I did not hit due to blood shot. I my quest I found a particular mono metal bullet and really liked how they worked. Long story short, my partner and I designed a bullet and we were able to get a patent on it. Today we are a year and a half since we launched our bullet for sale.

The answers that have been given do a pretty good job of describing how a bullet like ours does it's job on impact. They are designed to shed the petals and create a flat frontal area to displace soft tissue perpendicular to the direction that the bullet is traveling. The goal with all bullets is to create a permanent wound channel that bleeds in order to cause the central nervous system of an animal to fail. Velocity of a bullet as it goes through an animal is what causes the trauma. The soft tissue that needs to be damaged is elastic or stretchy. So the goal is to push it out of shape enough to cause it to not be able to come back into its original shape. What is called a permanent wound channel. Study shows that a smaller flat frontal area of a bullet will cause a larger permanent wound channel than a larger rounded frontal area of a classic mushroomed bullet will. The other reason that we want the nose petals to shed is we do not want the bullet to slow down too much while inside the animal. As the bullet slows down it causes less damage. So the idea of leaving all the energy of a bullet in the animal really an old wives tale. It is not the energy of a bullet that does the damage, it is the displacement of soft tissue. I can throw a rock at a deer and hit it with more energy than a bullet. With a good hit that rock will bounce off the deer and leave all of its energy on the deer. Pretty rare that I can kill a deer with that high energy rock. So as a bullet slows to a stop inside of the animal the amount of damage it does reduces relative to how fast it is still traveling. Here is a link to a physics study that we based our design on. It is a worthy read for those who are interested in terminal performance of bullets. It is long and dry but well worth the read. Shooting holes in wounding theories. Terminal Ballistics

mtmuley is right, we have a crazy amount of time and money into finding the right copper for our bullets. We will always quest for better. I think that the day we think we are done trying to get better is a bad day.

I am not a sponsor on this site so I will stop at this point. I will be happy to answer any questions that anybody has. open forum or in private message.

Steve

 

[MtnMuley]

Can't get any better than hearing it straight out of the horses mouth.

 

[awaldro7]

Steve thanks for the detailed response. I hope you don't think that I was attacking your product. You are right, it is just a lot different than what I am used to seeing. I may have to load some in the future and give them a try


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HellsCanyon]

Interesting! Pods you'll have to let me know how they do for sure, I'm always interested in a better mouse trap... Though I do love my Bergers...

Mike

 

[TauPhi111]

Lol I mentioned Hammer bullets over on the recent CEB thread before I saw this one. As I said there, many guys on the Long Range forum like the Hammers and report great results. I'm gonna get some soon for my 35 Whelen.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Interesting! Pods you'll have to let me know how they do for sure, I'm always interested in a better mouse trap... Though I do love my Bergers...

Mike

Will do. It was my intention all along to work up a mono load for most closer range hunting and then also a softer bullet for longer target and if I ever felt the desire longer hunting (for that it would likely be a berger or eld-x/m).

 

[Boreal]

Great offer from Steve at Hammer Bullets (RockyMtnMT, above) for those of us in Alaska, he will ship two boxes to Alaska via USPS for $8.50! Just use his address for shipping and he will set you up. Contact him directly from the info on the website and he will let you know the shipping address. Exceptional customer service. I have two boxes on order and will let you all know what I learn after I get a chance to load and shoot them.

 

[Boreal]

Thought I'd report on my experience with Hammer Bullets in the field. I took some 150 gr Sledge Hammer with my recipe for my Kimber MA 280AI that gets them to 3040 fps to Afognak on an elk hunt. I zeroed for 200 yards, getting 4 shots within an inch and called it good. These loads were responsible for the two elk we harvested on Afognak, one bull at about 100 yards and a cow at 70. Both animals flinched, took 5 steps, and dropped. Both double lung shots, both with massive trauma in the lungs. Only managed to examine the cow for wounds, the exit wound was slightly smaller than fist sized and took out two ribs. Because of the high number of bears we'd seen that day, and a GoPro failure, I don't have any photos of the wounds, but I was very impressed, as were the other hunters on the trip. I know these were not long distance shots, and most other bullets would do the job, but I am impressed with both the terminal performance, and the accuracy and consistency of these bullets. Load development had average muzzle velocity of 3037, SD 3.8, ES 7 for 5 shot groups. I don't think I can do any better than that, and the terminal performance was exactly as described.

I've got two more boxes on order and some 124 gr Hammer Hunters to test with my 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[mtmuley]

Nice. Steve will be pleased. mtmuley

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Sweet. Boreal send me a referral link, I need to order some soon and it'll get ya 10% off next time apparently.

 

[lpart]

I have been playing with the 124 gr Hunters in my 6.5 Creedmoor. I am coating with HBN and after ladder test and seating depth test I decided on a load to try and the first two groups at 200 yards were .30 and .308 inches with slightly different loads. I went with the load that gave me the .30 group because it was nice round group. Other load had some vertical. Loaded up some more and shot 600 yards to validate. 4" group at 13 degrees and would probably have been better if I wasn't shivering. Load is 2900 fps. I was pushing to get a new rifle ready to for hunt. Headed right out and shot a nice whitetail buck. Bullet performance was excellent. Buck slight quartering to me. Hit the point of the shoulder and then angled through liver and exited. Golf ball sized exit. Lungs and liver severely damaged. Buck sprinted about 35 yards and dropped dead. Very happy so far. My only issue is a little pricey to practice with. Will be trying to develop a load for 140 gr ELD-M for that. Should mention this is a well put together rifle. Blue printed 700 action, 24" Bartlein #4, Iota Kremlin stock, Jewell trigger and speed lock firing pin.

 

[doverpack12]

I had very good results this year on 3
Animals. 143 Hammer Hunter from 7mm STW at 3390 fps. Whitetail buck big body probably 50-60 yards first shot was my fault and spiked him then finished through the neck into the body cavity. Big 2” entry and not sure if it exited but I would have been full body penetration to exit. Next a 6 point bull elk maybe 80 yards broadside shot a little early as he was coming into a shooting lane on the move and hit the neck just in front of the shoulder. Dropped on the spot and had multiple wound channels into the offside front shoulder and exited. Last was a cow elk again around 80 yards angling through my shooting lane impact was halfway between the last rib and the hip just off the short ribs angled down and in. Exit was middle of offside front shoulder. She ran maybe 100 yards straight downhill. Centerpunched the back of the near lung then exited near the top middle and went through the offside lung and out. Lots of internal blood. Not a great bloodtrail but the impact was high and exit was in the shoulder. I liked how little meat was affected at all. Backstrap and tenderloin were untouched by any bloodshot and the offside front shoulder only required slight trimming around the bullet hole. All the bubbly clear sticky membrane had a lot of blood but was easily trimmed away in quartering. Not a lot of bullets could have performed on that shot outside of copper, and nosler partition or accubond type bullets.

 

[270 Sender0]

This is an old thread, but would like to thank Steve for all his help in loading up a round for my 300win. I had two loads, 181Hammer Hunters for reaching out and 181g sledgehammer for up close in the timber. In the last evening of the hunt we were walking through the timber and a bull bolted out below us. He ran down into a swell in the terrain and came up 435 yards on a ridge, the 181 sledge hammer was in the chamber so it was sent down range and that bull was DRT. We boned out the meat so didn’t get a chance to open up the chest cavity, but it was sloshing around inside. No meat damage and a exit hole. My buddy who took the first shot and missed is switching to hammers from what he witnessed. This is only one animal for me with hammers but like what I saw on entrance and exit also the bull didn’t take a step.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I’m using the 166g hammer for my mountain goat hunt this August.

 

[HuntnPack]

I’ll be loading up some 124’s in a 6.5 PRC
For a spring black bear hunt.
Also gonna give the 181’s a go in a 300 PRC
In a few months.