Rifle wont stay zeroed

[IDHUNTER]

I'm having an issue with my 7mm Wby. Mag. Every season when I get my gun out for rifle season it's off by several inches in one direction or another from the year before. So I re-sight it in and i can shoot great groups with it and then I go hunting and hit what I'm shooting at but the next year it's off again. My scope is a Bushnell Elite 3200...so it's not a top of the line scope but i would think it's good enough that it shouldn't move that far just by sitting in the gun cabinet during the off season. What's the likely culprit? Rings, bases, scope? I shoot the same ammo every year.

 

[howl]

Rear windage adjustable Redfield style mounts? Do you sometimes use glasses and sometimes not? Sometimes scopes do go bad. Some popular mounting systems are junk.

It's been long enough since they made the 3200 for a new scope and mount to be reasonable.

 

[GKPrice]

I've experienced the very same thing happen with several other rifles, ones with rock solid mounts and good scopes in synthetic stocks

Cannot explain it, the same rifles get put in cases and hauled to hunts, put on horses or in ATV's and when called upon do their job with
expected accuracy - I personally feel it's leprechauns but then...... I'm mostly Irish (but I can't remember ever giving one my safe combo ??)

 

[wapitibob]

Cleaning the rifle after the hunt?

 

[IDHUNTER]

Rear windage adjustable Redfield style mounts? Do you sometimes use glasses and sometimes not? Sometimes scopes do go bad. Some popular mounting systems are junk.

It's been long enough since they made the 3200 for a new scope and mount to be reasonable.

Yes Redfield rear windage adjustable bases. Never use glasses.

Bob - No, i typically dont clean the barrel after the season. I typically dont put more than 10 rounds/year through it.

 

[howl]

Primary suspect is the mount. There are plenty of mounts that are rock solid. Choice depends on budget and style preference. Does it need to be classy or who cares, etc. When I had a Mark V with the Claro stock I used Conetrol mounts on it; windage adjustable, couldn't move it with a hammer and gorgeous.

Scope? If you're going to get another mount anyway and like that scope, it's easy enough to see if the problem goes away while retaining the scope.

Tertiary is a wooden stock, not fully bedded, floated and sealed, that for some reason twists depending on humidity. If you store it in your climate controlled house for months after having kept it in your truck for a while the stock is a reasonable suspect.

I can see not wanting to move away from a winning system. A rock solid mount and tending to the stock would be steps that do not change that. I would only change one thing at a time to see what it was that made the difference.

 

[paleraider]

Please note I am not trying to piss in anyone's cereal just giving honest feedback.

Most likely your gun isn't moving around, especially if it is staying consistent during the season. What is most likely happening is how you are setup on the rifle is slightly different at the beginning of each season. Unless you shot a lot and by that I mean enough to burn out a barrel every year or so (2,000-3,000 rounds a year) you probably aren't as consistent as you think you are. So you are setup a little off, put more tension in one shoulder, grip a little tighter, or your trigger pull is a bit different. Anything like that will make it seem like your zero is shifting, when in fact it is your driving of the rifle that is varying. This happens to everyone and it is crazy the lengths people will go to look for defects in the gear when it is really just them not being consistent from shot to shot and year to year.

Best way to cure this is to dry fire A LOT during the off season; say 100 times a day 3-5 times a week. Then shot a lot at distances greater than 500 yards.

 

[GKPrice]

Please note I am not trying to piss in anyone's cereal just giving honest feedback.

Most likely your gun isn't moving around, especially if it is staying consistent during the season. What is most likely happening is how you are setup on the rifle is slightly different at the beginning of each season. Unless you shot a lot and by that I mean enough to burn out a barrel every year or so (2,000-3,000 rounds a year) you probably aren't as consistent as you think you are. So you are setup a little off, put more tension in one shoulder, grip a little tighter, or your trigger pull is a bit different. Anything like that will make it seem like your zero is shifting, when in fact it is your driving of the rifle that is varying. This happens to everyone and it is crazy the lengths people will go to look for defects in the gear when it is really just them not being consistent from shot to shot and year to year.

Best way to cure this is to dry fire A LOT during the off season; say 100 times a day 3-5 times a week. Then shot a lot at distances greater than 500 yards.

^^^^ this makes a lot of sense - being in Western Oregon I also think I've noticed my loads hitting different on rainy days vs. clear late spring/summer days - (covered range so weather does not stop me from shooting)

wood stock and humidity change is food for thought also

 

[IDHUNTER]

Please note I am not trying to piss in anyone's cereal just giving honest feedback.

Most likely your gun isn't moving around, especially if it is staying consistent during the season. What is most likely happening is how you are setup on the rifle is slightly different at the beginning of each season. Unless you shot a lot and by that I mean enough to burn out a barrel every year or so (2,000-3,000 rounds a year) you probably aren't as consistent as you think you are. So you are setup a little off, put more tension in one shoulder, grip a little tighter, or your trigger pull is a bit different. Anything like that will make it seem like your zero is shifting, when in fact it is your driving of the rifle that is varying. This happens to everyone and it is crazy the lengths people will go to look for defects in the gear when it is really just them not being consistent from shot to shot and year to year.

Best way to cure this is to dry fire A LOT during the off season; say 100 times a day 3-5 times a week. Then shot a lot at distances greater than 500 yards.

This seems reasonable and is something I hadn't considered. I appreciate the feedback. I'll go back and recheck all of my equipment to make sure it's rock solid to eliminate as many variables as possible and then work on my form.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

I'm having an issue with my 7mm Wby. Mag. Every season when I get my gun out for rifle season it's off by several inches in one direction or another from the year before. So I re-sight it in and i can shoot great groups with it and then I go hunting and hit what I'm shooting at but the next year it's off again. My scope is a Bushnell Elite 3200...so it's not a top of the line scope but i would think it's good enough that it shouldn't move that far just by sitting in the gun cabinet during the off season. What's the likely culprit? Rings, bases, scope? I shoot the same ammo every year.

As a former Gunsmith of 30 Years, here are some "idea's" and "things" to look for,..
1) Wood Stock ?? I'd, Glass Bed the Action, Recoil Lug, and "Free Float" the barrel ( Glass, the bbl channel, too, to avoid, Forend, "warping" ). I would cut "grooves" in bottom of, the inside of the bbl channel, shaped like a pyramid (with, small, drilled holes at the base of, pyramid) full of glass bed compound bbl sets at TOP of, "Pyramid" with, Tape around bbl to get the desired "gap" around, bbl. Be sure, to PRESS Glass compound into, small holes ( so NO, "bubbles" ).
2) Steel Rings ?? I used ONLY, Redfield or Leupold STEEL,..one or, two piece, Bases with ADJUSTABLE, "Windage" screws, DEGREASED and Loctited down and be SURE to check Base Screw LENGTH, so NOT "bottoming OUT" (hitting threads on Bbl ) that causes a loose Base and,.. SHIFTING, POI !
3) Buy a Leupold, Burris, Vortex or, Sworovski,.. Scope ,..I've NEVER liked, Bushnell,( sorry). I put a 4.5 x 14 X, Burris, on my 7mm Mag. with, turret caps set up, to "Dial",.. to 725 Yards.
4) Make sure all Action Bolts are tight,.. BEFORE start of, season. ( Degrease and Loctite them, usually ONCE and,.. DONE ! )
5) clean and Oil Bbl after, Hunt season then, run dry patch before, zeroing next year and shoot a few "Cold Bore" shots ( 2- 3) after, FINAL, sight in. Remember the Gun bbl. will be COLD when, Hunting ! Find, a GOOD, Gunsmith if you are NOT familiar or uncomfortable doing this "work", yourself ! I've owned 3 Left Handed, Mk5 Wby's and did the above, to all and this, "WORKS" !

 

[Formidilosus]

Please note I am not trying to piss in anyone's cereal just giving honest feedback.

Most likely your gun isn't moving around, especially if it is staying consistent during the season. What is most likely happening is how you are setup on the rifle is slightly different at the beginning of each season. Unless you shot a lot and by that I mean enough to burn out a barrel every year or so (2,000-3,000 rounds a year) you probably aren't as consistent as you think you are. So you are setup a little off, put more tension in one shoulder, grip a little tighter, or your trigger pull is a bit different. Anything like that will make it seem like your zero is shifting, when in fact it is your driving of the rifle that is varying. This happens to everyone and it is crazy the lengths people will go to look for defects in the gear when it is really just them not being consistent from shot to shot and year to year.

Best way to cure this is to dry fire A LOT during the off season; say 100 times a day 3-5 times a week. Then shot a lot at distances greater than 500 yards.

Inconsistent shoulder and/or grip pressure won't move POI "several inches". Additionally some years would have to have him shoooting similar to the last, so if there is a shift each year- something's moving.

 

[IDHUNTER]

As a former Gunsmith of 30 Years, here are some "idea's" and "things" to look for,..
1) Wood Stock ?? I'd, Glass Bed the Action, Recoil Lug, and "Free Float" the barrel ( Glass, the bbl channel, too, to avoid, Forend, "warping" ). I would cut "grooves" in bottom of, the inside of the bbl channel, shaped like a pyramid (with, small, drilled holes at the base of, pyramid) full of glass bed compound bbl sets at TOP of, "Pyramid" with, Tape around bbl to get the desired "gap" around, bbl. Be sure, to PRESS Glass compound into, small holes ( so NO, "bubbles" ).
2) Steel Rings ?? I used ONLY, Redfield or Leupold STEEL,..one or, two piece, Bases with ADJUSTABLE, "Windage" screws, DEGREASED and Loctited down and be SURE to check Base Screw LENGTH, so NOT "bottoming OUT" (hitting threads on Bbl ) that causes a loose Base and,.. SHIFTING, POI !
3) Buy a Leupold, Burris, Vortex or, Sworovski,.. Scope ,..I've NEVER liked, Bushnell,( sorry). I put a 4.5 x 14 X, Burris, on my 7mm Mag. with, turret caps set up, to "Dial",.. to 725 Yards.
4) Make sure all Action Bolts are tight,.. BEFORE start of, season. ( Degrease and Loctite them, usually ONCE and,.. DONE ! )
5) clean and Oil Bbl after, Hunt season then, run dry patch before, zeroing next year and shoot a few "Cold Bore" shots ( 2- 3) after, FINAL, sight in. Remember the Gun bbl. will be COLD when, Hunting ! Find, a GOOD, Gunsmith if you are NOT familiar or uncomfortable doing this "work", yourself ! I've owned 3 Left Handed, Mk5 Wby's and did the above, to all and this, "WORKS" !

Thanks Lefty. Yes this is a wood stock. It's a 1967 W. German Mk5 but probably has fewer than 200 rounds through it. I definitely do not feel comfortable doing a lot of that work to this gun. I'm a little north of you in McCall but I come to Boise quite a bit. Who do you recommend in Boise to do this kind of work...that is if you're out of the game.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

This ^^^^ Remember, you only need, ONE, accurate, repeatable, Big Game, Rifle that's,.. TRUSTWORTHY !
I'd spend, the Money, to do it,.. right,.. ONCE ! There is NO reason, to "put up" with, what's, "going on" as it's,.. ALL,.."curable" !

 

[IDHUNTER]

This ^^^^ Remember, you only need, ONE, accurate, repeatable, Big Game, Rifle that's,.. TRUSTWORTHY !
I'd spend, the Money, to do it,.. right,.. ONCE ! There is NO reason, to "put up" with, what's, "going on" as it's,.. ALL,.."curable" !

What would you expect the bedding and floating to cost?

 

[Cahunter805]

Good cheek weld and proper fit of your stock might help but I doubt it would change POI from year to year.
Are you sighting in from a bench? Off a bipod? Lead sled? Make sure you try and shoot from the same position each time and with parallax adjusted correctly.
Shooting longer range on paper will help show your flaws and also let you learn how you can fix them.

I would also check your action screws, base screws and rings and torque them properly. Also a bedding job may help your rifle remain consistent.

 

[paleraider]

Inconsistent shoulder and/or grip pressure won't move POI "several inches". Additionally some years would have to have him shoooting similar to the last, so if there is a shift each year- something's moving.

I will strongly disagree with you on this. It is very easy to get several inches of horizontal variance at 100 yards by trigger and grip pressure. Shoulder would be more vertical variance, I have watched many shooters not have proper contact with the rifle which caused more than a few inches of vertical dispersion.

Like others said here buy the best equipment you can.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

My last post was meant, to agree with, "Howl" sorry if, that was, confusing. I haven't done any Gunsmithing for a long time and sold most of my equipment. The last good Gunsmith in Boise that I've heard of, was,.. Ed Sweet (208) 870-4804
OR, possibly, Alpha Omega Services (208) 465-3577 but, I'd ask for, "references" tho ! The MK 5 Germans, are great Rifles and the 7 mm Mag is a great Cal., and they "CAN" shoot, very well !! Good Luck ! Doug

 

[GKPrice]

Yes Redfield rear windage adjustable bases. Never use glasses.

Bob - No, i typically dont clean the barrel after the season. I typically dont put more than 10 rounds/year through it.

thinking ... thinking ... I've seen Redfield/Leupold "standard" bases 1) with one of the windage screws hairline cracked 2) windage screws with coarse grit in between seat and screw end 3) base screw(s) ever so slightly loose and a tiny bit of corrosion forming in the space, any of the 3 will ruin good groups - first thing to do, pick the rifle up by the scope and shake it up & down hard, feel for slight rattles - then, take mounts apart examining each and every part as you do

 

[Idaho Lefty]

I've been out of the Bus for several years but, I would think today's cost, about,.. $250- $300.00ish. ,.. Doug

 

[Idaho Lefty]

IDHUNTER,..
I am 70 years old, now and I came from the ERA of, WOOD stocked Rifles ( I've Glass Bedded a ton of Rifles for $100-$150.00 in those Days ) and forend's "warping" and pushing against, Bbl's, was,.. VERY common ! ( POI changing,.. yearly )
The next, "issue" was "loose" Bases due to Oil or, Base screws being, too long in front,.. hitting bbl threads ( NOT bottoming, in Base, tightly ! )
Your scope may be fine ( take it off and shake it, tho ! ). You may get by with, a good Glass job and a KNOWLEDGEABLE "remounting" of scope !