Proof Research Switch Rifle

[Bowtech1]

New offering from proof at a lower price point. Loading site please wait...
What do you guys think?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Interesting. I drooled over the desert tech rifles for a while And then I shot one. Great concept except you would have to rezero for each barrel swap, right? For the type of precision shooting this would be capable of it seems like that would not be very simple. Would take a trip or two or more to the range to get it dialed in.

Feels to me like the real value of this is being able to swap out barrels as they get shot out if you were a high volume precision competitor or something.

 

[statikpunk]

the only thing this has over a savage or a remington with a remage nut is that it is really easy to swap bolt faces. other than that you could do this with a 400 dollar rifle instead of a 4 thousand dollar one. it is a Proof though so Im sure it's good. Desk Jockey made a good point about re-zeroing but it goes deeper then that. Each time you change barrels you could potentially be slightly changing your headspace which potentially could affect accuracy " IE a round that produced 1 inch groups could potentially get worse, or better actually." Like I said its a Proof so its certainly going to shoot good anyway but from a guy that does a lot of handloading this gun sounds like a nightmare.
its a good idea if they intend for the user to just occasionally change barrels because they want a different caliber, but to us it as "switch barrel" type gun where one day you are coyote hunting with a 223 and the next dumping elk with the 308. I just don't see people being happy with the amount of effort needed to get it shooting again. You would never be able to trust grouping that was shot before the most recent "switch"
I am currently building a model 700 using a remage nut, and it is great knowing I can switch that up any time I want to but to switch it back and forth just seems like it would end up being a complete waste of time.

All that being said....I bet it sells like hotcakes

 

[wind gypsy]

the only thing this has over a savage or a remington with a remage nut is that it is really easy to swap bolt faces. other than that you could do this with a 400 dollar rifle instead of a 4 thousand dollar one. it is a Proof though so Im sure it's good. Desk Jockey made a good point about re-zeroing but it goes deeper then that. Each time you change barrels you could potentially be slightly changing your headspace which potentially could affect accuracy " IE a round that produced 1 inch groups could potentially get worse, or better actually." Like I said its a Proof so its certainly going to shoot good anyway but from a guy that does a lot of handloading this gun sounds like a nightmare.
its a good idea if they intend for the user to just occasionally change barrels because they want a different caliber, but to us it as "switch barrel" type gun where one day you are coyote hunting with a 223 and the next dumping elk with the 308. I just don't see people being happy with the amount of effort needed to get it shooting again. You would never be able to trust grouping that was shot before the most recent "switch"
I am currently building a model 700 using a remage nut, and it is great knowing I can switch that up any time I want to but to switch it back and forth just seems like it would end up being a complete waste of time.

All that being said....I bet it sells like hotcakes

I agree with the above. I have a Desert Tech in 6.5x47 and 300 Norma so I get the desire for switch barrels just not so much in this application. Also, if I wanted a precision hunting rifle for longer range I want more juice than a Creedmoor or 7/08. Lots of nice sub MOA rifles in standard short action calibers that will do everything you need inside 600 yards for a fraction of the cost.

Beyond that it looks like a really nice rifle.

 

[huntstrong2850]

Having a proof barrel myself and knowing the quality of it and how well it does hold groups I imagine the gun itself will be awesome with the first barrel and first setup. But as stated above I don’t think you’re gonna be as simple as to go barrel to barrel and hold your same groups each time. Maybe for your average guy holding 1-2” groups this gun would be ok to use for just “hunting” but if you’re someone whose into the Precision long range stuff I see this as stated as being a nightmare. Guess we’ll have to wait for first hand reviews swapping barrels and maybe even scopes per barrel to see how the grouping holds and head spacing. But for $4k there’s definitely better alternatives.


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[Gatorgrizz27]

Agreed on re-zeroing the scope being an issue, especially when most guys are going to use scopes with turrets. I suppose it wouldn't be a huge problem if you only wanted to dial with one cartridge, and just figure out the mil values to "zero" the other cartridges but not dial the scope with them.

They would be better off making the picatinny rail part of the barrel and having it slide into a dovetail in the upper receiver, so you could keep each scope zeroed to a particular barrel. I also don't see the benefit of being able to change between .243, 6mm Creedmoor, .260, 6.5mm Creedmoor, and 7mm-08. With a fast twist and heavy bullets, they all perform similarly enough that there's no reason to go with one over another.

Being able to change from something like a 26" 6.5-06 with a 4-16x scope to 22" .30-06 with a 2-7x scope to an 18" .35 Whelen with a 1-4x scope, all pre-zeroed, would be a big advantage IMO.

 

[DEW0341]

Other than the action has better tolerance than a savage. Feeding and ejecting is different. It is a bighorn TL3 action.
As long as you have let's say 3 barrels like I do (.233, 6.5cm, 7wsm) I figure out what my zero shift between barrels is and slip my turrets and it's on. No worries. I also do these switches right at my tailgate at the range. I will shoot .223 for a while and switch to 6.5cm. There are plenty threads on snipershide about this very subject, plenty people have started doing more and more this since the mausingfield action came out a couple years ago


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[DEW0341]

I don't know if I will be able to bring the snipershide thread over here but I guess I can screen shot it. And post pics here.
A guy takes a bighorn TL3 (same action as the proof rifle) and had 5 manufactures (I believe 5) send him a pre fit savage and a shouldered barrel (10 total barrels). Broughton, Mullerworks, criterion, shillen and bartlein IIRC. He tested each manufacture pre fit to its shouldered counterpart and companies to each other. Testing repeatability essentially taking off and putting on and if there is any significant advantage to a shouldered barrel over a pre fit savage type in respect to accuracy.
Once he posts it I'll be sure to share it here if anyone would be interested.


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[luke moffat]

I don't know if I will be able to bring the snipershide thread over here but I guess I can screen shot it. And post pics here.
A guy takes a bighorn TL3 (same action as the proof rifle) and had 5 manufactures (I believe 5) send him a pre fit savage and a shouldered barrel (10 total barrels). Broughton, Mullerworks, criterion, shillen and bartlein IIRC. He tested each manufacture pre fit to its shouldered counterpart and companies to each other. Testing repeatability essentially taking off and putting on and if there is any significant advantage to a shouldered barrel over a pre fit savage type in respect to accuracy.
Once he posts it I'll be sure to share it here if anyone would be interested.


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Certainly keep us posted....that sounds pretty interesting for sure.

 

[PathFinder]

This isn't a new concept. You can do the same thing yourself without throwing a couple thousand extra dollars at Proof. Bighorn TL3, ARC Mausingfield, and Ultimatum Precision Deadline will all do the exact same thing. As will a factory Savage. It's only cool if you're going from 223 (cheap training) to 6.5 CM (matches, lighter hunting round) to a short action magnum like a 7 SAUM (extended ranges, bigger game). Going from one 308 based cartridge to another is pretty pointless. I'm surprised they aren't making that kind of versatility a part of it up front.

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[BrushyHillGuide]

There’s NO way I’d give PROOF my money for that rifle! You could have the same rifle built with the same components for the same or less AND have a good gunsmith chamber it to something better than SAAMI specs with some individual attention, instead of a line GS at PROOF. Plus, you could get a West Texas Ordinance Switchlug installed, which is far superior (imo) than a Savage style nut. The barrels can’t be bought from a mass producer (like Criterion) so they’re not as cheap to swap out. However, I’ll guarantee that they have far less horizontal shift, barrel to barrel when switching lengths/calibers and they’re getting >.50moa shift between 2 identically spun up barrels. Barrels can be changed with nothing more than an Allen wrench, even in the field, unlike a Savage nut.

Savage nuts, IMO, are meant for the home rifle builder. A guy that has a Savage action and needs to replace a barrel or wants to swap calibers and can’t afford a custom rifle or just enjoys the satisfaction of completing a DIY project. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But paying PROOF for a rifle built on a production line (even with custom components) and uses an inferior barrel swap design is ridiculous and a waste of money. If you’ve got $4k to burn on a rifle, why not get someone to build you EXACTLY what you want? It’s not the amount of money I have an issue with, it’s what you DONT get for the money.

It is not hard to run multiple barrels on a single rifle that’s built to tight, custom rifle tolerances. There’s a HUGE difference between swapping pre-fit Savage barrels on a Savage action and swapping barrels on a full custom action (that’s verified to be true) with a properly chambered premium barrel that’s as close to being perfectly concentric to the bore as is possible with high end machine tools. You just can’t compare the two. WTO’s Switchlug system (which is only $125) allows a (quality) gunsmith to take measurements from the first barrel and duplicate it to +\- .0001”. This allows barrel swaps with very minimal POI shift. All you need to do, in the case of a barrel length change is note the correction required to zero the new barrel (you’ll be on paper and what does it take to sight in a rifle- 3-5 shots? I can usually mount a new scope and be sighted in in 3-4 shots. Then, if you want to dial, reset your zero stops.

......


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[BrushyHillGuide]

.....cont’d

I’m in the process of having a similar rifle built by Clayton at WTO. It will have Bighorn’s SR3 action (new hunting version of the TL3 that Proof uses) a Manners carbon fiber stock and a Jewell HVR trigger at 1.5 pounds and Badger M5 bottom metal. Initially, I’m having 3 barrels spun up in 6.5 Sherman Shortmag, 6.5 SAUM 4s (we’re interested to compare the 2 directly) and 300wsm all finished at 22” for suppressed hunting. It’s not switch calibers willy-nilly and all the time - It’s a less expensive option than building 3 distinct rifles. In this case I’ll be doing a lot of testing between the 6.5 variants to decide on the one I want to stick with. One will ultimately get the ‘nod’ as a long range caliber. The 300wsm is just for those rare occasions I need a real hammer. Switchbarrel rifles are not intended to let you shoot 18 calibers in one range session - it’s simply about making it easier to own multiple calibers on the same platform. Some of these companies are trying to profit on the misconception by the general public that they can shoot a bunch of barrels and calibers without adjusting your scope. That’s nonsense. Especially with a factory action. A true custom with a Switchlug mitigates that need considerably but nothing can eliminate it entirely.

Proof barrels. They’re nice but I don’t see the point except in a few limited instances. They’re certainly accurate but not any more so than Bartlein, Benchmark or some other premium barrels. Where Proof shines is in weight reduction compared to big, heavy barrels. Big heavy barrels aren’t any more accurate than medium contour (or even lighter weight) barrels - they just handle the heat from long strings of fire better. That’s great for competitive shooters in certain disciplines. When was the last time you fired 5-10 shots, in rapid succession, at a big game animal? We don’t. The other scenario where PROOF shines, again in the weight department, is with very long barrels - an extremely long barrel that squeezes every FPS out of a round can get heavy and Proof barrels can certainly help mitigate that weight. There’s really no need, though, for a big heavy and/or long barrel on a hunting rifle unless you’re doing ELR hunting. Even the LR hunter can effectively use a medium contour, fluted stainless steel barrel up to 24” for any shot capable of delivering a bullet at sufficient speed to perform. On normal hunting length barrels (20”-26”) the difference between a Bartlein #3 and a Proof Sendero Lite is very minimal. When we ran the numbers, my 22” UNfluted #3B (#3 Bull) weighs les than 4oz more than a 22” Proof. AND IT COSTS 1/3 OF A PROOF!! Is 4oz worth $600+? I’ll find 4oz to cut somewhere that doesn’t cost me what a good shelter does. Lol! I’m not in any way bashing Proof barrels. They’re very cool but I think the cool factor is more behind the price than function and the hype exceeds the performance unless you need a very heavy barrel. If it floats your boat, that’s awesome! If I had the extra cash and nothing better to spend it on, I’d sure play with one. But, for my needs, there’s just no technical/performance justification I can find. This after several recent custom builds with some renowned gunsmiths. Heck, I’ve seen guys putting Proof barrels on untrued factory actions because they couldn’t afford anything but the Proof barrel. That’s crazy. Proof is as good at marketing as Hornady. Lol! I’m a couple years you won’t find any rifles being built that aren’t Proof barreled rifles in 6.5CM and 6.5 PRC! Lol.


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[DEW0341]

Proof struck a nerve with someone.....


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