So I unexpectedly got drawn for a limited opportunity AZ elk hunt with 0 points as a non res... But I don't have an ideal elk shooting iron...I know, I know, what a terrible problem to have!
I've got a lot of thoughts, so I'll try to keep the variables organized.... (cough...long post ahead
)
Bullets:
So the goal is to get a new elk shooter. I think the ideal way to approach this is to work from the terminal end back.
Looking at the maps it looks like I could potentially call one in to within <50 yards in the thick stuff (did I mention it was in the rut), or I may end up shooting cross canyon. So a bullet that could do both is in order.
Looking at the available elk worthy pills I think a heavy 7mm or 30 cal. bullet is called for.
7mm:
160 gr accubond (not long ranges, i've seen those splash on an elk shoulder at ~100-150 yards)
160 gr partition
175 gr partition
Some sort of barnes
180 gr berger
195 gr berger
160 gr Fed trophy bonded tipped
155 gr Fed TLR
30 cal:
200 gr accubond
200 gr partition
200 gr Fed TLR
210,215,230 berger
I like the design of the partition, but its not ideal at longer ranges. The Accubonds look like a decent option. Not a huge fan of barnes, but they do penetrate well. The new federal bullets look like a really good compromise between weight retention and opening at long range. Bergers have great ballistics, Ive killed one WT doe with a 7.5x55 with 175 gr bergers with a ~2500 fps muzzle velocity and it was bad news, but I have concerns with penetration on bigger critters and higher velocities under 100 yards.
As far as cartridges I think a 7mag or 300 win mag are the sensible options. (although a long barreled 280 AI does intrigue me, and a 30-06 is just a classic).
A short digression:
I do have several potentially suitable guns available to me. So this is a "want" (and ive got a bunch of other gear to get too...I need a pack and I need a rangefinder. Maybe a truck shell. Maybe a sleeping pad and bag...etc, so money will be tight).
The guns I have are a Browning BLR 308. tikka CTR 6.5 in a chassis (heavy PRS type setup). I could borrow a 270 rem 700 bdl or a Ruger 7mm mag with boat paddle stock. Of these the ruger is an obvious choice, but it is my dads, and I doubt it will stabilize anything over 160gr or so (but it could suffice), and it has a decent mid 90's leupy Vari-X 3, 3-9x40.
Back to the main discussion...
Optics:
As far as available optics, I have a leupy vx6 2-12 and a Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29 that I can repurpose. If I go leupy i'll get a CDS dial for it. And as a fyi the Cronus passed my box test on the tikka.
The choice of optic likely affects my comfortable range. I did some dry fire on some whitetails this weekend at ~850 yards. On 29x it seemed pretty doable, 12x would be tough but likely possible with practice. So if I go luepy it would likely be a 600 yd max, maybe 800 for the cronus (ignoring other variables at the moment). On the other end, i'm very comfortable shooting running critters at close to medium range with the leupy on 2x, 4.5x is a bit trickier under 50 yards. The optic also effects my overall weight. I believe the cronus is 1+lbs more then the leupy.
Terrain/Elevation/Bare Rifle Weight:
The elevation is roughly 6000 ft. I expect to have to cover a lot of ground being that there's not many elk in the unit. I don't think there's too much super nasty elevation changes unless I decide to cross some of the canyons. Id call the average terrain "moderately mountainous". That being said I think a bare rifle weight of 6-7.5 lbs is about right for this mission.
The standard elevation and load development will be done at 500-1000 ft asl.
Silencer/threaded barrel:
I've got a 30 cal thunderbeast ultra 9. I would like to be able to utilize it. I haven't fully read through the AZ regs, but I believe its ok to use. If not then I'd still like the capability to put it on. So a threaded barrel is a strong want, if not a need.
And for the record, I do like being able to hear the thump of the bullet hitting an animal, its a good indication of a hit.
Budget:
Probably around $1000 +/- a bit. Again, this is a want, not a need. And there's plenty of other things that I need/want for this trip. There's always the battle in my head between my engineering brain that appreciates awesome engineering, and the engineering part of my brain that appreciates efficiency. The efficiency side is winning. I foresee more bow hunts in the future. So I don't want to go crazy. A cooper or fierce does make me drool a little though
Build vs Buy:
Back to the efficiency brain. A turnkey option seems ideal for me at this time. Savages don't do it for me, but the performance is there. Apparently there's a switch barrel Howa option now which could be a good choice (mcgowen "howage"). A barreled action is like $300. A custom tikka would be the bee's knee's but the mag length is short for the magnums. I could maybe steal the rem 700 from my dad and build off of it.
However, time and tools are an issue.
Factory options:
It doesn't seem like theres a ton of options for faster twist 7mm's in a factory gun. The browning xbolt long range stands out. Many of the 300mags seem to have a 1-10" except the tikka (to my knowledge). I do not want to single feed rounds FYI.
~$1000 or less options:
Kimber: I've lusted after a 280 AI Montana, but the barrel was a touch short and the twist was wrong. Looks like a 300 mag Montana has a lot of the features im looking for, however kimber has developed a dubious reputation for accuracy and QC.
Browning: The Browning hells canyon speed or long range look like an awesome choice. 26" barrels. I fondled each and I liked the way the stock fit, the action feels good, and I liked the 60 deg bolt. I think I liked the speed the most due to the lighter weight.
A more sensible option is just a long range stalker at ~$800. But im not sure what the twist rate is. Brownings website doesn't match on some of the rates of twists.
I saw a note that said that browning was increasing the rate of twists on the long range models. The hells canyon long range I fondled in 7 mag had a 1-8". The Speed was unmarked but the website says 1-9.5" which may be a bit slow for the heavies.
But in a 300 mag the speed has a 1-10", which should stabilize the heavy bergers If my research is correct.
The con on the speed is that the threads on the muzzle are non-standard and I would need an adapter. I'll probably ask thunderbeast if they could make a brake in the different thread, or if they felt it was safe to run the adapter). The Pro of the speed is the weight, With the thunderbeast it would be about the same weight as the bare long range.
So a 300 mag hells canyon speed is likely my frontrunner. I do have concerns about the longevity of the plastic duratouch stock. But McMillan has a replacement should I feel the need in the future.
No accuracy guarantee
Christiansen Mesa:
A bit above my price range, but I could swing it. A lot of good features on paper. A good name, sub moa guarantee. Remington footprint so a lively aftermarket. Decent weight. I've handled them in the past. Honestly I didn't think the action was worthy of $2k+ (tikka has me spoiled), but in the mesa it is about right. (I also don't know what im talking about! lol).
Anybody have any experience with the stock? is it a solid composite or plastic?
I have not fondled the mesa. Anyone know a store in dallas that has one?
Tikka/Sako:
From what Ive read its not worth going with a sako over a Tikka. If they had a solid composite stocked version for $1K-1200... maybe.
Tikkas are gauranteed shooters. The twist rate and short mag are limiting but I can maybe get over that since they are such a value. The stock isn't optimal but usable and replaceable while staying under $1100 or so. Or just leave it and rock it as is. (I do like my tikka a lot).
Would a 300 mag tikka stabilize 200 gr bullets with a 1-11" twist? What grain bullet would the 7mag with a 1-9.5" be capable of stabilizing.
Howa:
The first lite looks good but im uneducated on them. Sub-moa.
Bergara:
The ridge has a lot of good features, its just heavy .... sub-moa.
And lastly..."The Shooter"
A 28 yr old, short for his weight at 5'8". Male. Mecahnical Engineer. Slightly overconfident when it comes to shooting, but terrible with women. Damned good with a shot gun. Damned good at high pressure fast developing shot opportunities with a rifle. Thinks that rifle hunting is boring and prefers his recurve but has never hunted elk and wants to kill one. lol.
Has reloading experience and the equipment.
Not a lot of long range experience. Not a lot of wind doping experience (I do have ballistic arc and the associated cheapo wind meter). I've taken my tikka 6.5 creedmoor to ~600 yards but haven't gone further yet. My "range" at the farm is about 600. I could maybe stretch it out to 800 but need to do some figur'ating on the angles.
I plan to go to some longer ranges at some point.
Likely plan would be to do a full load development. Then most likely i'll get in 100 or so rounds or practice. Then go kill things.
Concluding Thoughts:
So with all that said. Can anyone add or subtract from my list of variables?
I'm currently leaning towards the 300 mag hells canyon speed with either the leupy for a moderate and sensible ~600 yard gun. OR go all out on the optic and pair either the speed or the long range with the Cronus. If I go with the long range the 7mag may be a good option with the 1-8" twist and higher BC bullets. But a 200+ gr slug out of a 300mag has some perks on elk. The speed throwing the 230 gr bergers would probably do some damage. The high mass weight and lower velocity ease some of my fears on a close shot. And the 26" barrel seems nifty.
The Mesa in 300 mag is a close runner up (but a budget stretch). I think its long term durability and upgradeability will be easier to work with. I don't know if i'll shoot enough to burn out a barrel, but a 700 action would be preferable to the browning in that regard. The 24" barrel isn't exactly what I want, but I am putting a silencer on it, so its gonna be a long beast even with a 24". However, the 90 degree bolt throw is not as sexy! lol.
The tikka is the most sensible option. Just get one and use it as is for this one hunt. Deal with the slower twist rate by shooting slightly lighter bullets.
Or I just save my money, load up some 160 gr accubonds or federals and use the Old Ruger.
Anyone have some other insights or concerns?
Thanks
I've got a lot of thoughts, so I'll try to keep the variables organized.... (cough...long post ahead
)Bullets:
So the goal is to get a new elk shooter. I think the ideal way to approach this is to work from the terminal end back.
Looking at the maps it looks like I could potentially call one in to within <50 yards in the thick stuff (did I mention it was in the rut
), or I may end up shooting cross canyon. So a bullet that could do both is in order. Looking at the available elk worthy pills I think a heavy 7mm or 30 cal. bullet is called for.
7mm:
160 gr accubond (not long ranges, i've seen those splash on an elk shoulder at ~100-150 yards)
160 gr partition
175 gr partition
Some sort of barnes
180 gr berger
195 gr berger
160 gr Fed trophy bonded tipped
155 gr Fed TLR
30 cal:
200 gr accubond
200 gr partition
200 gr Fed TLR
210,215,230 berger
I like the design of the partition, but its not ideal at longer ranges. The Accubonds look like a decent option. Not a huge fan of barnes, but they do penetrate well. The new federal bullets look like a really good compromise between weight retention and opening at long range. Bergers have great ballistics, Ive killed one WT doe with a 7.5x55 with 175 gr bergers with a ~2500 fps muzzle velocity and it was bad news, but I have concerns with penetration on bigger critters and higher velocities under 100 yards.
As far as cartridges I think a 7mag or 300 win mag are the sensible options. (although a long barreled 280 AI does intrigue me, and a 30-06 is just a classic).
A short digression:
I do have several potentially suitable guns available to me. So this is a "want" (and ive got a bunch of other gear to get too...I need a pack and I need a rangefinder. Maybe a truck shell. Maybe a sleeping pad and bag...etc, so money will be tight).
The guns I have are a Browning BLR 308. tikka CTR 6.5 in a chassis (heavy PRS type setup). I could borrow a 270 rem 700 bdl or a Ruger 7mm mag with boat paddle stock. Of these the ruger is an obvious choice, but it is my dads, and I doubt it will stabilize anything over 160gr or so (but it could suffice), and it has a decent mid 90's leupy Vari-X 3, 3-9x40.
Back to the main discussion...
Optics:
As far as available optics, I have a leupy vx6 2-12 and a Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29 that I can repurpose. If I go leupy i'll get a CDS dial for it. And as a fyi the Cronus passed my box test on the tikka.
The choice of optic likely affects my comfortable range. I did some dry fire on some whitetails this weekend at ~850 yards. On 29x it seemed pretty doable, 12x would be tough but likely possible with practice. So if I go luepy it would likely be a 600 yd max, maybe 800 for the cronus (ignoring other variables at the moment). On the other end, i'm very comfortable shooting running critters at close to medium range with the leupy on 2x, 4.5x is a bit trickier under 50 yards. The optic also effects my overall weight. I believe the cronus is 1+lbs more then the leupy.
Terrain/Elevation/Bare Rifle Weight:
The elevation is roughly 6000 ft. I expect to have to cover a lot of ground being that there's not many elk in the unit. I don't think there's too much super nasty elevation changes unless I decide to cross some of the canyons. Id call the average terrain "moderately mountainous". That being said I think a bare rifle weight of 6-7.5 lbs is about right for this mission.
The standard elevation and load development will be done at 500-1000 ft asl.
Silencer/threaded barrel:
I've got a 30 cal thunderbeast ultra 9. I would like to be able to utilize it. I haven't fully read through the AZ regs, but I believe its ok to use. If not then I'd still like the capability to put it on. So a threaded barrel is a strong want, if not a need.
And for the record, I do like being able to hear the thump of the bullet hitting an animal, its a good indication of a hit.
Budget:
Probably around $1000 +/- a bit. Again, this is a want, not a need. And there's plenty of other things that I need/want for this trip. There's always the battle in my head between my engineering brain that appreciates awesome engineering, and the engineering part of my brain that appreciates efficiency. The efficiency side is winning. I foresee more bow hunts in the future. So I don't want to go crazy. A cooper or fierce does make me drool a little though
Build vs Buy:
Back to the efficiency brain. A turnkey option seems ideal for me at this time. Savages don't do it for me, but the performance is there. Apparently there's a switch barrel Howa option now which could be a good choice (mcgowen "howage"). A barreled action is like $300. A custom tikka would be the bee's knee's but the mag length is short for the magnums. I could maybe steal the rem 700 from my dad and build off of it.
However, time and tools are an issue.
Factory options:
It doesn't seem like theres a ton of options for faster twist 7mm's in a factory gun. The browning xbolt long range stands out. Many of the 300mags seem to have a 1-10" except the tikka (to my knowledge). I do not want to single feed rounds FYI.
~$1000 or less options:
Kimber: I've lusted after a 280 AI Montana, but the barrel was a touch short and the twist was wrong. Looks like a 300 mag Montana has a lot of the features im looking for, however kimber has developed a dubious reputation for accuracy and QC.
Browning: The Browning hells canyon speed or long range look like an awesome choice. 26" barrels. I fondled each and I liked the way the stock fit, the action feels good, and I liked the 60 deg bolt. I think I liked the speed the most due to the lighter weight.
A more sensible option is just a long range stalker at ~$800. But im not sure what the twist rate is. Brownings website doesn't match on some of the rates of twists.
I saw a note that said that browning was increasing the rate of twists on the long range models. The hells canyon long range I fondled in 7 mag had a 1-8". The Speed was unmarked but the website says 1-9.5" which may be a bit slow for the heavies.
But in a 300 mag the speed has a 1-10", which should stabilize the heavy bergers If my research is correct.
The con on the speed is that the threads on the muzzle are non-standard and I would need an adapter. I'll probably ask thunderbeast if they could make a brake in the different thread, or if they felt it was safe to run the adapter). The Pro of the speed is the weight, With the thunderbeast it would be about the same weight as the bare long range.
So a 300 mag hells canyon speed is likely my frontrunner. I do have concerns about the longevity of the plastic duratouch stock. But McMillan has a replacement should I feel the need in the future.
No accuracy guarantee
Christiansen Mesa:
A bit above my price range, but I could swing it. A lot of good features on paper. A good name, sub moa guarantee. Remington footprint so a lively aftermarket. Decent weight. I've handled them in the past. Honestly I didn't think the action was worthy of $2k+ (tikka has me spoiled), but in the mesa it is about right. (I also don't know what im talking about! lol).
Anybody have any experience with the stock? is it a solid composite or plastic?
I have not fondled the mesa. Anyone know a store in dallas that has one?
Tikka/Sako:
From what Ive read its not worth going with a sako over a Tikka. If they had a solid composite stocked version for $1K-1200... maybe.
Tikkas are gauranteed shooters. The twist rate and short mag are limiting but I can maybe get over that since they are such a value. The stock isn't optimal but usable and replaceable while staying under $1100 or so. Or just leave it and rock it as is. (I do like my tikka a lot).
Would a 300 mag tikka stabilize 200 gr bullets with a 1-11" twist? What grain bullet would the 7mag with a 1-9.5" be capable of stabilizing.
Howa:
The first lite looks good but im uneducated on them. Sub-moa.
Bergara:
The ridge has a lot of good features, its just heavy
.... sub-moa. And lastly..."The Shooter"
A 28 yr old, short for his weight at 5'8". Male. Mecahnical Engineer. Slightly overconfident when it comes to shooting, but terrible with women. Damned good with a shot gun. Damned good at high pressure fast developing shot opportunities with a rifle. Thinks that rifle hunting is boring and prefers his recurve but has never hunted elk and wants to kill one. lol
. Has reloading experience and the equipment.
Not a lot of long range experience. Not a lot of wind doping experience (I do have ballistic arc and the associated cheapo wind meter). I've taken my tikka 6.5 creedmoor to ~600 yards but haven't gone further yet. My "range" at the farm is about 600. I could maybe stretch it out to 800 but need to do some figur'ating on the angles.
I plan to go to some longer ranges at some point.
Likely plan would be to do a full load development. Then most likely i'll get in 100 or so rounds or practice. Then go kill things.
Concluding Thoughts:
So with all that said. Can anyone add or subtract from my list of variables?
I'm currently leaning towards the 300 mag hells canyon speed with either the leupy for a moderate and sensible ~600 yard gun. OR go all out on the optic and pair either the speed or the long range with the Cronus. If I go with the long range the 7mag may be a good option with the 1-8" twist and higher BC bullets. But a 200+ gr slug out of a 300mag has some perks on elk. The speed throwing the 230 gr bergers would probably do some damage. The high mass weight and lower velocity ease some of my fears on a close shot. And the 26" barrel seems nifty.
The Mesa in 300 mag is a close runner up (but a budget stretch). I think its long term durability and upgradeability will be easier to work with. I don't know if i'll shoot enough to burn out a barrel, but a 700 action would be preferable to the browning in that regard. The 24" barrel isn't exactly what I want, but I am putting a silencer on it, so its gonna be a long beast even with a 24". However, the 90 degree bolt throw is not as sexy! lol.
The tikka is the most sensible option. Just get one and use it as is for this one hunt. Deal with the slower twist rate by shooting slightly lighter bullets.
Or I just save my money, load up some 160 gr accubonds or federals and use the Old Ruger.
Anyone have some other insights or concerns?
Thanks
