Cliven Bundy Situation

[PA 5-0]

Hopefully everyone is following the Cliven Bundy situation in Nevada. I was in the mntns thurs, fri, and sat so I am catching up. Amazed at the lack of national news coverage. 2nd Amendment in action!!!!! Absolutely incredible course of events.

 

[69ChrisCraft]

Bundy has been grazing animals on OUR land for 20 years and not paying taxes.... He claims that he has no need for the federal government and that his ancestors have been using that land since before the formation of the BLM.... Well, the federal government was responsible for putting down the uprisings of Indian attacks on whites in that same territory. Guy is an ass clown. I don't like paying taxes for the worthless on welfare but I still do....and I'm sure it's easy for people in rural NV to believe they don't receive any assistance from the federal government. Nevada probably has the most sensitive winter grazing ground for sheep, Mulies, and elk of any western state. Ranchers (particularly sheep ranchers) have done tremendous damage to the game populations of Nevada.... Although, they are recovering now. I grew up on a cow/calf operation so I know both sides....

 

[Snowcrest6]

Personally, I think they should revoke all grazing leases and put an end to welfare ranching on public ground.

 

[Hunt'nFish]

Honestly I think both sides (Bundy & The Feds) were in the wrong.
Hopefully a local judge paddles both their asses.
Hunt'nFish

 

[Shrek]

I'm not real sympathetic to Mr Bundy but the BLM and other feds lost me completely when they brought snipers and set up free speech zones. As best I can read and understand the constitution of the United States of America the entire country is a free speech zone and any organization and the individuals who participate in undermining the constitution should be shot dead for treason. If you choose your job over the constitution then you are desecrating the memory of every Patriot who served and died to found and defend the United States of America. I tthink the issues that Mr Bundy has with the Federal Government are not black and white and there is legitimate questions. Just because the Feds got a court to agree doesn't mean they are right and just because Mr Bundy's family has grazed cattle there in the past doesn't guarantee his future rights. I see some dirty dealing on the Feds part and bone headed moves by Mr Bundy.

 

[BRobertson]

I'm not real sympathetic to Mr Bundy but the BLM and other feds lost me completely when they brought snipers and set up free speech zones. As best I can read and understand the constitution of the United States of America the entire country is a free speech zone and any organization and the individuals who participate in undermining the constitution should be shot dead for treason. If you choose your job over the constitution then you are desecrating the memory of every Patriot who served and died to found and defend the United States of America. I tthink the issues that Mr Bundy has with the Federal Government are not black and white and there is legitimate questions. Just because the Feds got a court to agree doesn't mean they are right and just because Mr Bundy's family has grazed cattle there in the past doesn't guarantee his future rights. I see some dirty dealing on the Feds part and bone headed moves by Mr Bundy.

Agreed!!

Bob

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

The guy quit paying his bills. Not much sympathy from me..

 

[mmw194287]

I don't see the problem with a "free speech zone"--you aren't allowed to go into the halls of Congress or the chambers of the Supreme Court with picket signs (much less a firearm), but you are allowed to protest outside on the sidewalk. Is that unconstitutional? Should the D.C. cops or Secret Service agents who restrict free speech to particular areas in D.C. be "shot dead for treason" as you suggest?

The BLM agents were attempting to do their jobs in accordance with the law--it's difficult to round up a herd of renegade cattle when guys with signs and guns are in the middle of the area of activity. So they create a makeshift sidewalk (or "free speech zone") so that citizens can protest the government in accordance with their rights without physically disrupting the legal processes of government. Is that so authoritarian?

 

[kodiakfly]

Bundy has been grazing animals on OUR land for 20 years and not paying taxes....

Not paying grazing fees...not taxes. It's been shown his taxes are current. Maybe splitting hairs, but the news has been saying "taxes" like he's a dead beat. He's paid taxes, but refuses to see BLM authority and intentionally won't pay the grazing fees. I only mention it because the other day I heard it reported that he's not "paid his taxes or grazing fees," and that's inaccurate.

It's a cliché, but there really are two sides to this story. He's pushed his luck and if it's true they've been billing him or whatever for 20 years, then yeah, that's dumb that he's not paid. On the other side, they show up with fully automatic weapons and snipers and it starts to get weird when there's a hundred different ways they could've gotten serious about it other than laying siege. Not to mention they flip out over some cattle on barren ground and send in a battalion, but the border sits wide open and no one cares. But that's different conversation.

(And before anyone gets upset, I'm not anti-immigration. I'm anti-illegal immigration.)

 

[badkneesbro]

And speaking of immigration, this seems to be a case of the government picking & choosing which laws it wants to enforce & which laws it wont. Again. It really isn't so black & white.

 

[2ski]

So he won't have a problem if someone else comes and grazes their herd on the same ground he is using? That would seem fair to me, but I'm guessing he wouldn't be cool with it.

 

[PA 5-0]

So many issues with this series of incidents.

So taxes are definitely DIFFERENT than grazing fees that the Feds decided one day they were able to charge and collect. 16 states are challenging the Fed in court as to who owns and should operate these lands. Nevada is one of these states.

And as I wear a badge, I was very uneasy with the sight of civilians taking up sniper positions on Federal agents. But I have to tell ya, this incident is exactly what the 2nd Amendment was drafted for. If the Bundy supporters were not able to be peaceful ARMED protesters, the Feds would have walked all over these people. What happens when they come and wanna take your property.

And as for the BLM, its a joke. Drug runners use these lands as a giant playground and the Feds do virtually NOTHING. Then in this case, these bozos decide to sign a cattle rustling contract for $900,000 to rustle up Bundy's cattle to sell and collect the $1.2 million they are owed for grazing fees. So for the business men out there: would anyone spend $900k to chase $1.2mil. How about you just put a lien on his ranch and avoid possible blood shed. The FED has been buying out all the grazing contracts for years. Why??? So they can start popping gas wells and putting up solar panels. How will that help the turtles and deer and elk???

And then there is idiot Sen. Reid who apparently wants to install a giant Chinese solar power farm on this land. On OUR land. How is that gonna affect the tortoises????

This story is deep and muddy but I was amazed when the County Sheriff and Las Vegas PD and Nevada State Police refused to assist the FEDs in their cattle rustling endeavor. That should tell ya something. Read up on this before forming your opinion. History books may be being re-written here.

 

[Schleppy]

I've been watching this ordeal without much real interest. My initial thought was that these citizens were a bunch of idiots. The sort of "ambulance chaser" types who look for any opportunity to spew their anti-government bs. If the guy paid for what he has taken there would be no issue. I live in WI and cattle graze within fenced pastures on land that is owned by the farmer. Why are we letting anyone put livestock on our federal lands? Before you go and count a big coup for the 2nd ammendment remember that we live in a civilization and some give and take is necessary to maintain order. I dont care if you call it a grazing fees or taxes, it's a case of owing the people of the united states aka (the government) money for 20 years and finally someone going to collect the bill.

 

[Shrek]

The more I learn the more I agree with Mr Bundy. It seems that it was settled law that the first to put the water to use had title to the water and grazing. Then starting at the turn of the last century the Forest service was created and there were voluntary agreements made and fees agreed to allow for maintenance of the land. The the Congress passed the Taylor act in 1934 and started charging fees involuntarily and not for land maintenance. Now it has progressed to regulating the ranchers out of business and seizing their claims. What at first seemed to be ridiculous claims to land he didn't own now seem much more valid and the federal claims very questionable. I some ways it is the final nails in the coffin of states rights and individual rights that was started with the northern war of aggression and has continued to this day. I've come to the conclusion that the federal government is out of control and will either completely render the constitution irrelevant or there will be violent revolution.

 

[Jason Snyder]

If he had rights to the grazing then I think it's highly unlikely he would have gotten creamed in federal court when the case was heard.

He is a hack that did not follow the proper Constitutional procedures for arguing his case, and I don't have any sympathy for him. If he is a true Constitutionalist then he would adhere to the rights and procedures granted in it. He did not.

 

[ffparamedic]

Not paying grazing fees...not taxes. It's been shown his taxes are current. Maybe splitting hairs, but the news has been saying "taxes" like he's a dead beat. He's paid taxes, but refuses to see BLM authority and intentionally won't pay the grazing fees. I only mention it because the other day I heard it reported that he's not "paid his taxes or grazing fees," and that's inaccurate.

It's a cliché, but there really are two sides to this story. He's pushed his luck and if it's true they've been billing him or whatever for 20 years, then yeah, that's dumb that he's not paid. On the other side, they show up with fully automatic weapons and snipers and it starts to get weird when there's a hundred different ways they could've gotten serious about it other than laying siege. Not to mention they flip out over some cattle on barren ground and send in a battalion, but the border sits wide open and no one cares. But that's different conversation.

(And before anyone gets upset, I'm not anti-immigration. I'm anti-illegal immigration.)

Let's not forget about our people in Benghazi who got NO help after asking for it multiple times and even well in advance of the actual attack......Nor let us forget that OUR govt did their best not to call that a terroristic action but Sen Reid quickly called these people "domestic terrorists"

We need a political purging.

 

[tstowater]

Something doesn't add up here. As there seems to be several stories, the facts are hard to figure out. My question is why Bundy would pay the fees for a long time and then stop? Isn't the allegation that he has tried to pay the State, but Nevada refuses to take the money? Too many other twist to the story, whether smoke screens or not, to truly understand what is going on here. Frankly, I don't trust any of the parties.

 

[SHTF]

Not paying grazing fees...not taxes. It's been shown his taxes are current. Maybe splitting hairs, but the news has been saying "taxes" like he's a dead beat. He's paid taxes, but refuses to see BLM authority and intentionally won't pay the grazing fees. I only mention it because the other day I heard it reported that he's not "paid his taxes or grazing fees," and that's inaccurate.

It's a cliché, but there really are two sides to this story. He's pushed his luck and if it's true they've been billing him or whatever for 20 years, then yeah, that's dumb that he's not paid. On the other side, they show up with fully automatic weapons and snipers and it starts to get weird when there's a hundred different ways they could've gotten serious about it other than laying siege. Not to mention they flip out over some cattle on barren ground and send in a battalion, but the border sits wide open and no one cares. But that's different conversation.

(And before anyone gets upset, I'm not anti-immigration. I'm anti-illegal immigration.)

Well said. I couldnt agree more. This is America, Land of what has been deemed to be the Free. But Im not buying into the illusion. I think its a bit absurd that a man trying to make a living raising the Cattle that we all eat is being treated as a Common Criminal. I am sympathetic. This guy is just trying to make his way and we have Cattle all over this country that require grazing. Its like telling the farmers they need to pay a fee to transport their feed and produce across our highways. I think its complete and utter BS. My 2 cents which isnt much.

 

[SHTF]

So many issues with this series of incidents.

So taxes are definitely DIFFERENT than grazing fees that the Feds decided one day they were able to charge and collect. 16 states are challenging the Fed in court as to who owns and should operate these lands. Nevada is one of these states.

And as I wear a badge, I was very uneasy with the sight of civilians taking up sniper positions on Federal agents. But I have to tell ya, this incident is exactly what the 2nd Amendment was drafted for. If the Bundy supporters were not able to be peaceful ARMED protesters, the Feds would have walked all over these people. What happens when they come and wanna take your property.

And as for the BLM, its a joke. Drug runners use these lands as a giant playground and the Feds do virtually NOTHING. Then in this case, these bozos decide to sign a cattle rustling contract for $900,000 to rustle up Bundy's cattle to sell and collect the $1.2 million they are owed for grazing fees. So for the business men out there: would anyone spend $900k to chase $1.2mil. How about you just put a lien on his ranch and avoid possible blood shed. The FED has been buying out all the grazing contracts for years. Why??? So they can start popping gas wells and putting up solar panels. How will that help the turtles and deer and elk???

And then there is idiot Sen. Reid who apparently wants to install a giant Chinese solar power farm on this land. On OUR land. How is that gonna affect the tortoises????

This story is deep and muddy but I was amazed when the County Sheriff and Las Vegas PD and Nevada State Police refused to assist the FEDs in their cattle rustling endeavor. That should tell ya something. Read up on this before forming your opinion. History books may be being re-written here.

Should of kept reading PA I like you already. Well said

 

[boom]

he spits in the eye of every other rancher that pays those fees. shit, as hunters, most of us pay a fee.

the authorities handled it really bad, really bad..but man, they handled it bad!!