Backcountry side arm

[Beendare]

Marksmanship Matters | Dangerous Predators Stopped with Handguns

This link has many cases of bear stops with a handgun....[hat tip to Colby above] and good info [I think] on ammo with tests in the footnote. This article mirrors my comments on the subject that the ammo you are using is important.

I had many cases where big hogs at close range absorbed .357 hollow point 158gr bullets.....and it didn't stop them. I've seen and shot big hogs in the head at close range with the same bullet...with iffy results. I moved up to a .44 and had a case where I hit the hog in the head 2 out of 3 shots and he still charged past us in thick manzanita. This is decades ago and we didn't have the options we have today....but at the time the prevailing opinion was "use hollowpoints".

Whatever my pistol choice.....I'm convinced hardcast is the way to go and its a game changer.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I have a few glock 20s that I've changed the barrels and sights on, theyabre great guns.

I also have the ruger redhawk backpacker 44mag and I love it but if I was some serious firepower, I have a super black hawk bisley in 454 casull.

 

[MattB]

I wouldn't laugh just because others want to protect themselves. If your not going to carry around black bears, cats or wolves why would you carry around brown bear or griz? Pretty sure black bears have killed and eaten more people then any other bear but I could be wrong. Also shady people hangout in the woods and I've been happy to have a side arm a few times. Yes I would say chances you will need a side arm are small, even around griz so why take one at all. Chances are very high that black bear, griz, wolves and cats will leave you be but we pack protection for that .001% chance for all of them.

I do agree it is a little redundant to carry on a rifle hunt but if your in thick vegetation a rifle many not do you much good but really pistol probably will not either other then a false sense of security. I always have a pistol on me when in the woods, just always have carried and will even if you laugh at me

Bees kill ~25x more people each year than bears and lions combined - do you carry 2 different types of bug sprays/repellants on your backcountry hunts?

With the minimalist philosophy employed by most backcountry hunters, a sidearm is more than a little redundant.

 

[Randle]

a friend of mine had a cat come in on him while calling for his hunting partner. He said when they saw it , it was only 20 yards away . He had an elk decoy in his hands , so he threw it down and stood up and yelled at it. The cat crept forward a few feet. He was not hunting so he didn't have bow, and no sidearm, The hunter tried to shoot it but missed due to brush, they were finally able to scare it off. He said he would have loved to have a pistol. I carry for cats and dogs, bears are usually sacredy cats.

 

[RCR]

Bees kill ~25x more people each year than bears and lions combined - do you carry 2 different types of bug sprays/repellants on your backcountry hunts?

With the minimalist philosophy employed by most backcountry hunters, a sidearm is more than a little redundant.

Ok. Thread hijack, sort of, but I can't resist . First bad encounter with "bees" was when I was 17 and stepped on a nest while moose hunting in AK. They got under my shirt and I had a few hours of unpleasantness. Luckily I'm not allergic. Same trip my dad had to kill a black bear with a .357 that had claimed my moose. It was a 2.5 mile pack out so we didn't carry a rifle. That didn't happen again!

My second bad encounter with bees happened archery elk hunting in CO with my dad. We were taking a lunch break and a yellow jacket took a liking to dad's sandwich about the time he took a bite. The yellow jacket wasn't too pleased and let him have it on the tongue. Being about 2 miles from the truck, we started out right away and spent the first part of the walk out discussing if I knew how to put in an emergency airway. I said of course. I would just stick an arrow into his neck and that would do it. Needless to say, we were both relieved when his tongue didn't swell up.


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[Mike7]

Bees kill ~25x more people each year than bears and lions combined - do you carry 2 different types of bug sprays/repellants on your backcountry hunts?

With the minimalist philosophy employed by most backcountry hunters, a sidearm is more than a little redundant.

First of all, I question how effective a scoped rifle would be at night while packing out meat in grizzly country. It wouldn't seem to be the best defensive weapon in that instance, and I am really not sure that I could hit much of anything with it.

Also, I am not allergic to bees like most people who die from stings are, but I still carry a little Benadryl with me in my pack, because it is easy insurance to help treat a potentially deadly and unavoidable insect injury.

Not only might a person run into armed humans in the woods, humans who happen to kill far more other humans than bees, but hunters do things in the woods which increase their chances for a dangerous interaction with a big animal such as a cat or bear compared to most folks. And using deaths alone caused by big animals as a risk evaluation measuring stick, completely discounts all of the times an animal attack was thwarted by bear spray, firearms, etc. I don't think it is unreasonable to want to have some ability to protect yourself and choose your own destiny.

 

[dotman]

Bees kill ~25x more people each year than bears and lions combined - do you carry 2 different types of bug sprays/repellants on your backcountry hunts?

With the minimalist philosophy employed by most backcountry hunters, a sidearm is more than a little redundant.

If I was allergic I'd be prepared, I'm not so I don't worry about them. But if one was allergic I hope they would carry an epipen as well as their bug dope.

Within the 25x more people killed by bees, how many of the deaths were to people not allergic? Not really the same area of comparison. In the end you don't have to carry another's redundancy so why worry that others are ok being redundant and failing at ounce counting

I guess in the end it is just reducing inherent risks for situations that we put ourselves in, the residual risks are always going to be there we just have to each determine what level of risk tolerance we are comfortable with and roll with it.

 

[warrior80]

I would add to the bee comparison that pretty much the entire population is exposed to bees, with a certain percentage being allergic, whereas a much smaller number of people are exposed to bears and cats. I imagine if you looked at the number of encounters with hunters because of where they go and behavior in the woods, the percentage would be much higher. All I know is that I know enough people personally that have needed their firearms for both grizzly and black bears, that I prefer to have some kind of protection. Odds are you'll never need it, but it only takes once.

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[Beendare]

Bees are ubiquitous...thus the stats.

Processing a dead elk in the dark within 100 miles of Yellowstone alters your threat profile just a little bit don't you think?<grin>

 

[oldhorse]

We can argue the pros and cons and find statistics to support either point of view all day long. In the end, it's a personal choice. If you don't want to carry a firearm, then don't. If you want to carry, do so. No need for ball-breaking on either side. Just my opinion!

 

[Huntindog45]

i carry my glock in 40 cal. I have a couple. more often than not i carry my compact model 27 because...it is compact and carries a substantial payload of boom boom. my large capacity magazines fit in it just fine so I have that option to put a lot of rounds through it rapidly if I have to. I have killed a bear at very close range with it. (less than 10 yards).. It was a black bear, in a house (Yes IN, the house). Long story and wont get into details but the bear never took a second step after the trigger was pulled. so i have some confidence in it. Clearly a grizzly would be a different story and if I lived/hunted in grizzly country I may be tempted to carry something larger. When I lived in montana I carried a .44 But that was before I carried a glock regularly. I am very confident with any of my glocks so it would be tough for me to change.

 

[warrior80]

...I have killed a bear at very close range with it. (less than 10 yards).. It was a black bear, in a house (Yes IN, the house). Long story and wont get into details but the bear never took a second step after the trigger was pulled...

Sounds like a crazy story. That would have got the blood pumping! Maybe you could start another thread and tell it...?

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[Colberjs]

I carry a Springfield XDs 3.3" .45

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Carrying a sidearm in the backcountry is no different than carrying in the city...you just select the caliber and model based on probable threats. It's like life insurance...you hope you never need to use it but you have it anyway.

 

[bally]

I aint buying anything special for hikes. Same pocket 9mm as everywhere else. Men and dogs are the main threats, everywhere and all the time. Even with a .44 mag, it will take a brain hit to get a reliable stop. a 20 ga slug hits harder.

 

[CookeMonster]

I am almost finished with my grizz country pistol build. Loooots of reading and research later, I came back to what I first turned up my nose at. I didn't believe that an auto pistol, despite the capacity, would be adequate and that the 44 mag (or bigger) revolvers were where it was at. That is, until I read the behemoth 45SUPER thread at GlockTalk in the Caliber Corner sub-forum. With a ***fully supported chamber*** (which is to say, not a stock Glock barrel) and a muzzle brake, hand loaded 45ACP can be safely loaded up to middleweight 44 mag power. Instead of 5 or 6 shots of hot 44 mag, you get 13 rounds of average 44 mag in a much lighter package, with less felt recoil and faster follow ups, plus another nearly instant 13 rounds if it's a pack of dogs you're faced with. Several guys are posting load data (of many different types of powder and bullet weights) in the ballpark or even above 900 ft lbs. More power and a bigger hole than 10mm -- the 45 frame / slide / barrels can handle the same pressures as the 10mm. Essentially, they are doing 460 Rowland or better in 45ACP making it much easier to find brass for reloading, and just taking off the brake to shoot factory 45 for plinking / practice. Honestly, the only reason for Rowland over 45SUPER is to avoid chambering one of these cannonballs in a 45 that is not set up for it and hurting yourself. Being my only ACP pistol anymore, this wasn't an issue for me.

This is only a formidable recipe for someone who is willing to spend $800ish ($500 for a pistol, $100-200 on an aftermarket, threaded barrel and a good, efficient muzzle brake i.e. not the Lone Wolf or other cheapo for another $100+) on an ugly-ass Glock AND has the equipment and knowledge / experience in hand loading and knowing how to recognize the upper end of the pressure curve and when to stop and back it down, but the long, long, long... thread I'm referring to has a lot of that info if you're really interested and can make it through the whole thing.

Last point on this subject for me is that no matter the platform or caliber you choose, avoid any "defensive" ammo and stick to wide-nose (meplat), heavy-for-caliber, hard cast bullets. Underwood Ammo has excellent loads (unlike Buffalo Bore, Underwood typically hits it's advertised velocities) at about 1/2 the price of the other premium woods cartridges, in lots of different calibers and weights. Penetration with hollow points is fine if you're shooting deer, but for the purpose of this thread, the deeper the better. Not 13-20" FBI too wussie to shoot full power 10mm deep. More like 70-100" of penetration with the ability to penetrate a brown bear skull (or elephant femur ) is what this thread is about.

 

[carter33]

S&W .460 performance center 3.5" barrel, its a wrist breaker but comforting when hiking in thick brush especially when not carrying a rifle. Can also shoot .44lc and .454 to practice. Pricey and a little heavy but I am confident it will last a few lifetimes.

 

[MtnOyster]

M&P 40 shield no matter where im at, from the deepest canyon in the rockies to the mens restroom in a nice steakhouse, Oh yea and im supposed to be allergic to bees and wasp and been stung a bunch but i'd rather die from the A$$ end of an insect than from the teeth and claws of an apex predator.

 

[jchal3]

Well just to let everyone where I ended up. I went with a Taurus tracker in 44mag. The 5 shot helped lighten it up enough to make the decision. So far I like it. Haven't fired it that much yet though.

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[Shooter19802003]

Right on, which one did you get. I think they are a lot of gun for the money.