Modern "Primitive Weapon" seasons

[Dave0317]

What are yall's opinions on Primitive weapons seasons? I'm assuming this varies widely by state, but in general, are they still relevant? Are they effective from a management standpoint? Or do they have a place because of tradition or sentimental reasons? Just curious about some opinions from others.

Here in Mississippi a primitive weapon is a single shot rifle with an exposed hammer, caliber over .35, and any sighting system is allowed. So you can have a single shot .35 whelen with a 6-24x scope if you want and have almost zero handicap during primitive season compared to the scoped 30-06 you might use during rifle season. How is that primitive? How does that make a difference with game management? Oh yeah, and it only applies on public land, which is less than 10% of our state.

I'm putting some ideas together to start sending to our legislature, but I'm curious, what would you write into a "primitive rifle" law? No scopes? black powder only? Straight wall cartridges only? Only firearms designed prior to a certain year?
Or just throw it out and have only Archery and Rifle with appropriate time periods and bag limits to manage game?

 

[PNWTO]

When I think of a "primitive" rifle a smoothbore flintlock is the only thing that comes to mind.

I don't think I would support the creation of primitive seasons in WA but if it was forced on me I probably wouldn't care either, I don't think the number of hunters would change that drastically. I would have some fears of folks buying #40 Samick Sage bows and sending arrows at 40 yards but hopefully that would be self-correcting. Also, it seems to me that hunters would rather bitch and moan about "fairness" than go out and buy new weapons.

I think the need for individuals with struggle sticks and flintlocks to be in the field longer would probably nullify any management concerns, as well.

WA has a very well-timed muzzleloader season, although it is a bit short compared to archery and modern.

 

[theleo91386]

It depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. Oregon, Washington, and Idaho limit muzzle loaders to requiring exposed caps (no 209 primers), black powder/black powder substitutes, and sights with no magnification or electronics. Oregon has a specific hunt with unlimited tags in a trophy mule deer unit where only longbows or recurves are allowed. Personally I don't see straight wall rifle cartridges as much of a limiting factor, a 45-70 can reach a long ways and kill game without issue.

 

[timekiller13]

Personally, I would just throw it out and have an archery only season followed by an any weapons season.

But that will never happen. The modern black powder/muzzleloader industry sells tons of weapons for the specific purpose of "extending ones season." Get rid of these special seasons on a large scale and companies like Knight and CVA will fight tooth and nail to keep them. Most people would never buy a muzzleloader if there was no special season.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Timekiller,

You are right, I wouldn't own a muzzleloader if it wasn't for muzzy seasons but I own 2, one Ore, Wa, Id legal and one for Nv and NM.

The open sight, just lead-no jackets pretty much makes it a 200 yards weapon at best.

Personally I'm in favor of them but wonder why Ut just went to any power scope from years of having 1 power scopes only. IMHO more advances=higher success which when it comes to management, equals less tags.

I like a more traditional approach but will use whatever the laws in the respective state allows.

 

[Desk Jockey]

We have a flintlock season in PA. I don't really have a problem with it because it isn't a special tag, only a final couple of weeks late season to fill your deer tag. I am not interested but who am I to say it shouldn't happen. Some guys really get into it and go full mountain man get ups. It takes a village.

 

[CorbLand]

Personally I'm in favor of them but wonder why Ut just went to any power scope from years of having 1 power scopes only. IMHO more advances=higher success which when it comes to management, equals less tags.

You pretty much summed up Utah management strategy.

 

[muddydogs]

Personally I'm in favor of them but wonder why Ut just went to any power scope from years of having 1 power scopes only. IMHO more advances=higher success which when it comes to management, equals less tags.

Why not go to any power scope, they already allowed inline's, sabots, jacketed bullets, closed ignition and any black powder substitute so why not any scope as it wasn't much of a primitive hunt to begin with so the scope change really didn't effect anything. Guys already thought they could shoot 200+ yards with open sights or the 1x scope so now at least they have a better sight picture and hopefully there are fewer wounded animals from the want to be snipers. Ya I know wishful thinking because now these same guys probably think they have 500 yard guns.

 

[adamm88]

To me the definition is something like a flint lock or cap lock muzzeloader with open sights. Most modern muzzeloaders you have a pretty good advantage.

I think most states get caught up in the "primitive" wording and should just call it a muzzeloader, it would be way less complicated.

 

[NHRedleg]

In NH our “primitive weapons” season, other than Archery (15Sep-15Dec), would be our Muzzleloader season-11 days prior to regular firearms season (reg firearm always opens the 2nd Wednesday of Nov-to second Sunday after Thanksgiving). A muzzleloader in NH is defined as a single barrel, single shot firearm (40 caliber or greater) that can only be loaded from the muzzle; these are only restrictions but it does make the use of modern cartages not allowed. Crossbows are also allowed during the Muzzleloader season, Regular firearm season, and with disability permit during the Archery season. I like the ML season here as it gets you out in the pre-rut/early rut phase and there aren’t quite so many hunters in the woods.
In Maine it is called a Muzzleloader season like NH. A Muzzleloader in Maine means a firearm that is capable of being loaded only through the muzzle; is ignited by a matchlock, wheel lock, flintlock, or caplock, including an in-line caplock or shotgun or rifle primer mechanism; has a rifled or smooth-bored barrel capable of firing only a single charge; propels a ball, bullet, or charge of shot; and may have any type of sights, including scopes. Season is the week after Firearms season (week after Thanksgiving week) or two weeks for selected areas. In Maine I like it as an option if I didn’t get one during the firearm season (only one deer in state with firearm/ML allowed) and being late season there is almost always snow on the ground where I hunt. I rarely hunt it though as I usually have one of my NH tags not filled yet (I get three-one firearm/ML and two Archery) and season left.
Overall I like the seasons as there aren’t as many hunters in the woods and I like the challenge of the reduced range offered with the ML. I like being able to use optics (2.5x scope for me) as my eyes don’t see open sights so well anymore, 209 primers (had many a misfire before those came out), Sabots (more accurate in my ML than full cal), and Blackhorn 209 powder (more reliable and cleaner then Black Powder or Pyrodex). I wouldn’t consider Mississippi’s season a “primitive weapon” with the only restrictions being single shot rifle, exposed hammer, cal over .35; you can get a TC Encore in a bunch of calibers that fit those restrictions.

 

[elkyinzer]

It ends up being kind of arbitrary where you define the line as far as what is primitive and what is not because primitive is a pretty friggin ambiguous and relative term. My dad's 1992 PSE is primitive in my eyes.

But the whole concept is to provide recreation for max amount of people with lesser effect on the resources compared to "less primitive" alternatives. More bang for your buck if you will. The opposite would be plainly managing the resource with the most efficient means possible. And nationwide I think across several different weapons categories from crossbows all the way up to modern muzzleloaders and long-range rifle technology that concept could use some consideration.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

"Blackpowder l During the blackpowder deer season, the only lawful firearms are blackpowder shotguns, rifles and handguns. The Commission defines a blackpowder firearm as any firearm that cannot use fixed ammunition."

That is NC's definition of blackpowder season. I like it, simplifies things rather well. Of course there are a lot of differences between NC, and most any western state.