Ethics question

[hardwaregrrl]

I realize this is a matter of opinion, but as a new hunter with no mentors....I'm compelled to ask you fine folks with lots of experience. I live in an urban place, but yet we have large swaths of private and county owned woodlands. Areas that were never developed, or just taken over by trees. An area such as this, has been on my radar for 15 years. I used to hike and ride my bike back on this 177 acre piece of land. I never thought about who owned it, until recently. I befriended a DNR officer over the phone. I became an informant in a case again my neighbor who was dumping tires illegally, including over 1k in his own backyard that butted up to my property. He was not a friendly guy. At 6'4" and 390#, he was quite intimidating. He attempted to run me over with a Uhaul in my yard as I videoed him. The Uhaul was stolen and my video led to a felony warrant and eventually, an arrest.

I realized that this officer of the DNR might be able to point me in the direction of urban property that owners would be willing to let me hunt. I had a friends property that was 22 acres that I'd cut my teeth on, but this season the area around my friends property was being developed, I needed another close place to hunt. I am a stay at home mom with a 2.5 year old, so time and money were not on my side. I called the officer and he pointed me to that very property I was interested in. He told me the landowner lived out of country, would not sign any sort of affidavit, and that as long as I had a hunting license and was using the correct equipment, I was within the law. I never really thought much about the ethics until recently.

I've hunted out there 3 times, my friend has already shot 2 doe off of it. We went out together Sunday morning and as we left to hike back to the truck we noticed a hang on stand. It was a recent edition. As we walked back the DNR officer pulled up asking us where we were hunting, to see our license...yada yada. I realized who he was and he was super friendly and glad to meet me. Then he asked if we had seen the bait. "You two are pretty unobservant.".....shit. He told us where to look and to keep an eye out. Sure enough across from the hang on was a salt block and a shit load of corn. There were 3 other locations that looked the same....also they cleared some shooting lanes. We walked in to check them out and soon after, a truck pulled up. Well long story short......we got both hunters in deep shit by providing IDs and license plate number. I also saw both of them physically putting corn out. Funny thing is, the deer have way more preferred food to eat available to them. They weren't touching the corn.

So now my dilemma.....I love the property. I want to protect it until he sells. I have no way to contact the owner, but do have an address to his investment group. The DNR officer told me to attempt to gain written permission, but that he in no way would ask me to not hunt. What would you do? I want to be the good guy......but we just don't have public lands in GA that are that easy to access for someone like me. I'll hike in miles if I can be home by dinner, but it's not possible in my region. Thanks for listening.

 

[Poser]

There's the correct answer and then there is the *correct* answer. **** it: hunt it until you can't.


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[TheCougar]

You have a DNR officer giving you all the implied consent you need. I’d get his number on speed dial in case you ever had issues, then I’d hunt the hell out of it. I’d also steer clear of other hunters and the baits. Turning in poachers is one thing, but doing it repeatedly in a small area is liable to get you noticed in all the wrong ways.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Since you asked............ I personally would not hunt it unless I had permission from the owner or a representative of the owner. I would not feel right about it and I realize that most people would do it but not me. I think with some legwork, you could find out an answer.

Randy

 

[Backpack Hunter]

The hunting without permission law (O.C.G.A. 27-3-1) states, “It shall be unlawful for any person to hunt upon the lands of another or enter upon the lands of another in pursuit of wildlife, with or without a license, without first obtaining permission from the landowner or lessee of such land or the lessee of the game rights of such land.”

Looks like legally or ethically you need to get permission first.

 

[N2TRKYS]

There is zero chance that I would hunt a property that I didn't have permission to hunt on from the landowner. I don't know the whole story or law over there, but something doesn't seem right about the whole deal.

I would get the landowner's contact info from the tax office and contact them. JMO

 

[Ohio Darin]

My personal guide when it comes to right and wrong is: If I have to ask others - I already know the answer. As stated the tax office would have contact info. I would gain written permission.

 

[hodgeman]

Depends on the local prevailing laws.

When I was a kid in the South... the law was such that you could hunt any property that wasn't posted. Lots of times we hunted places and had no idea who owned them. If it was posted, you had to have permission...which was generally easy enough to get if you weren't a flaming butt about it. Lots of folks and timber investment companies who owned large tracts of mountainous property didn't care what you did as long as you didn't leave litter and saw down their timber. "De facto public land" would be one way to describe it.

From the perspective of DNR- absentee land owners that won't either post their property or give permission to hunt are sort of a conundrum. The deer still need to be managed effectively and a lot of them simply won't pursue a case unless there's a complaint. Pretty much unless the land owner starts griping, there's no case to be made. Generally speaking- the worst they'd likely ask you to do is leave. Some land investment companies simply won't address any requests for permission as an avoidance of liability (plausible deniability) for access to the property.

Is it ethical? I'm not sure this is really an ethics question. I'd think if the company really cared, they'd post it, gate it, or block access.

 

[mfllood3800]

Don't hunt it w/o permission and the game warden doesn't qualify as permission.
Just look at it this way, what if you had land, would you want people on it, using it, trashing it, dumping on it?
No
So do unto others....

Approach it this way :

Contact managers of property, notifying them of the illegal use of the property. Tell them about your connection to the Game Warden and the help you gave in keeping their property safe.

Ask them if they would allow you to make sure the property isn't abused as it was with the others and that you do hunt and would like to have access as a fair trade for policing their land.

That is the answer to your question as far as "ethical", it is also the legal answer.

You cant ever be ethical while being illegal; But sometimes you can be unethical while being legal.
.

 

[Gumbo]

Since you asked............ I personally would not hunt it unless I had permission from the owner or a representative of the owner. I would not feel right about it and I realize that most people would do it but not me. I think with some legwork, you could find out an answer.

Randy

Yep. I would feel dirty and be looking over my shoulder all the time. And if I shot a big deer I would know every time I looked at it what I did to get it.

 

[Bubblehide]

I was in a similar situation decades ago. The regs here is Ca state that if the land is not fenced, signed, or cultivated, it is legal to hunt. The owner was out of state, an elderly man. I did what was advised here above. Unfortunately, the owner never responded. I can imagine a lot of reasons for his unresponsiveness. Such as mental decline, to not wanting to document giving permission to reduce liability... The property is still there, very huntible, with deer, bear, pigs, dove, quail... inhabiting it. I no longer know who owns it, and I have yet to hunt it, despite knowing of some that do, primarily because there has been no one to complain. So here in Ca, it would be perfectly legal, but ethically, it's an individual decision.

 

[Superkodiak38]

I would definitely obtain written permission if possible and try to do so in exchange for "care taking" the property. If the landowners know there is a local point of contact and that you would report anyone doing anything illegal, growing weed, poaching etc. in exchange for being able to hunt the property it might go a long way towards opening up other properties they might own and secure your spot there.

 

[muddydogs]

From what it sounds like the warden has given you a free pass and he would know best so I would shut up and hunt it until further notice. I'm willing to bet that if you contact the management company and especially tell them your tale of poachers with in a couple weeks the land will be posted and you'll be shut out. The management company isn't going to give you permission to hunt the property and keep any eye on it as then they could be held liable if something happened to you while catching poachers, there best coarse of action would be to post the property so the game warden has some legal grounds to keep people off and issue fines.

If the property is in control of a management company you can bet that they don't really care whats happening on the property, they are collecting there fee and probably trying to get it sold to a developer, if they really cared it would already be posted.

 

[hardwaregrrl]

I really appreciate all of the responses. I take my son there hiking as there is a train bridge over the river that is great fun to watch. I will continue to keep eyes on the property but am going to attempt to gain written permission. I’m learning quite a lot here at rokslide.

 

[wytx]

You might want to inquire if that DNR officer has any right or legal authority to tell you it is ok to hunt it. Sounds fishy to me.
I would contact the owner or management, owner preferably. Let them know about the baiting and your help with DNR in catching them. Maybe the DNR officer will give you a good reference with the owners, maybe even talk with them about your efforts.
Just remember, if it is not legal and you get caught it could mean loss of hunting privileges in over 40 states. I would not take that chance.

 

[Beendare]

I would definitely obtain written permission if possible and try to do so in exchange for "care taking" the property. ....

^ Bingo!

 

[maninthemaze]

One way to gain permission from a nervous landowner is to offer to lease hunting rights on the property. This way, you could release him from all liability in case of an accident. If he gives you permission to hunt and you get hurt, you could potentially sue him for damages. Just a thought.

And use the tax office to find other properties if this doesn't work. A lot of PVA offices are now using ARCGIS on line maps.

Just my 2 cents and worth the price charged.

 

[N2TRKYS]

It sounds like the game warden is sweet on you.

 

[Jauwater]

There is a place in the Pisgah National Forest I like to hunt that I’ve experienced, kind of the same problem. I park at a trailhead, use the trail to gain some elevation. Along the first 1/4 mile, the trail teeters between private property lines. One side being locals, and the other side being a huge plot owned by an investment company. The parking area is actually located on the investment companies property. You cross their property line one more time a few hundred yards past the parking area. Years ago before hunting there I contacted a game warden within that county about carrying a weapon on the trail, being the trail is considered “recreational area”. He informed me though the trailhead parking was actually on private property, He also mentioned that I would cross that property line again further on the trail, and to carry a weapon legally on their property I needed written permission from them. He informed me of another trailhead, so I’ve been using that one ever since. I tried reaching out to that investment company several times through out that first year hunting there. Still dunno till this day if I ever reached anyone. I don’t feel any harm is being done in situations like these, but once I learned what the law was, I couldn’t cross that property with a weapon with a clear conscience.

I never got any response, good luck. But even with GIS data, and google I wasn’t able to find much contact info. I used to hunt a farm in Eastman, GA. Seemed like there was country for days down there. Seems like there’d be a lot of hunting access.


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[Bcole82]

I’m not sure how this is even a question, it’s not your land so stay off of it. You do this in Idaho and I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t end well for you.


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