CO 2018 app changes?

[dotman]

I just saw on AT a thread that CO is changing it’s application process to all online for all species and that you only have to buy a habitat stamp plus pay a $3 fee per species applied for, you don’t pay for the tag until drawn. Anyone else hear anything about this change? Sure would be nice if true.

When do the updated regs and big game brochure with changes usually come out? I did notice their system to buy anything is down as they are implementing a new one.

 

[schmalzy]

I just saw on AT a thread that CO is changing it’s application process to all online for all species and that you only have to buy a habitat stamp plus pay a $3 fee per species applied for, you don’t pay for the tag until drawn. Anyone else hear anything about this change? Sure would be nice if true.

When do the updated regs and big game brochure with changes usually come out? I did notice their system to buy anything is down as they are implementing a new one.

I would like the ease of it but also wonder what it will then do to odds. Texas did a similar move recently and it really changed peoples odds for the worse. Not saying that would happen, it just brought up some memories of the Texas situation.

 

[elkduds]

Nonresidents will see major increase in point creep starting this year. It will not be as severe for residents, since those license fees are small by comparison and were never an obstacle to applying. The leftover/reissue game will get more interesting.

 

[dotman]

I don’t see it changing the odds really, people either already are building pts or will start. I think people will buy pts and apply at some point yes but I know if this happens I’ll be buying pts for my kids now as well, yet they will not hunt for a long time and their first hunts will be otc.

I don’t see this making it more difficult to draw easier limited tags and the trophy units, well, good luck there either way. It will just be nice as an NR to not have to fork out thousands of dollars just to get a pt for both my kids and I. For the res it will not change anything.

 

[dotman]

Nonresidents will see major increase in point creep starting this year. It will not be as severe for residents, since those license fees are small by comparison and were never an obstacle to applying. The leftover/reissue game will get more interesting.

Explain, pretty sure if people were building pts or looking to draw a certain unit that’s already in the current numbers, if people didn’t want to fork out the cash to get a pt previously then they have zero pts so not sure how they are even in the picture come this next year. Now in 5 or 6 years that may be true but many will just buy pts and hunt once or never, the people that hunt consistently are already doing it. It isn’t like this all of a sudden makes it cheaper to hunt as an NR in CO, therefore people that couldn’t afford to let their money sit in the CPW bank acct for a few months will start to play the game now, doubt it, yes they will build pts now but the tags are still expensive once drawn and the costs to get there and hunt are not getting cheaper.

Truthfully I think residents that say there will be immediate pt creep are just trying to turn away NR’s or make them think now it’ll be hard to draw a tag in CO, as a NR I think it will be nice to not have to fork out so much cash each year just to increase our pt count.

I would agree with you if the tags overall price dropped to $3ea. But either way my pts will increase this coming year and I’ll hunt otc tags.

 

[gbflyer]

They've kicked around a tag fee increase. Will this be the year?

 

[orionthehunter1]

You guys are crazy thinking this will not effect draw odds. Non resident sheep, moose and goat just went in the crapper now that it will be online and you don't have to front the money. How many non-residents do you think didn't put in cause you had to mail the app and put a check or money order. Now that it is easy many will jump. Resident sheep, moose, and goat will also see a change, granted those tags are only 250 dollars, but how many guys will throw their name in knowing they don't have to front any money? Also most of the changes are in the 2018 Turkey regs that came out.

 

[dotman]

You guys are crazy thinking this will not effect draw odds. Non resident sheep, moose and goat just went in the crapper now that it will be online and you don't have to front the money. How many non-residents do you think didn't put in cause you had to mail the app and put a check or money order. Now that it is easy many will jump. Resident sheep, moose, and goat will also see a change, granted those tags are only 250 dollars, but how many guys will throw their name in knowing they don't have to front any money? Also most of the changes are in the 2018 Turkey regs that came out.

Haha, really how so? Do you think all of a sudden people have thousands to spend on these tags if drawn? Again, this may make a diff in a few years but I bet most just buy a pref pt and very few actually try to draw a tag for fear of having to pay for the tag, and other costs to hunt. I mean it would be different if sheep, goat and moose tags were only 20% more expensive then the resident prices. Plus there were services that would previously apply for you for a very small fee if one didn’t want to front the cash directly, the online app and reduced fee will hurt these businesses more then NR odds.

Just look at the stats and how many NR pay for only a pref pt in the current system vs try to draw, reason being they either don’t have 3pts to get in the actual draw or they can’t afford to draw the tag but want to build pts.

Also if a NR really wants to hunt sheep they could hunt sheep every year in MT for half of what a tag costs in CO.

 

[dotman]

They've kicked around a tag fee increase. Will this be the year?

NR get an annual 3% increase but I do think resident prices are supposed to go up or maybe that was this past year.

 

[orionthehunter1]

The resident price increase didn't pass so our tags are staying the same. The non-resident apps for sheep, goat, and moose are going to increase under the old system you still had to front the money for a point, now you don't so I believe a lot more guys will jump in. Plus, being online now and not paper and mail it will appeal to a lot more folks

 

[dotman]

The resident price increase didn't pass so our tags are staying the same. The non-resident apps for sheep, goat, and moose are going to increase under the old system you still had to front the money for a point, now you don't so I believe a lot more guys will jump in. Plus, being online now and not paper and mail it will appeal to a lot more folks

But you forget you had to either front the money or pay Cabelas or another service $80 to front it for you, so it was easy to build pts already for not much out of pocket. MT even realized this and now you can buy pts there without even putting in the draw.

 

[svivian]

Tim I see your point but for example I put in for every tag in Colorado. I'm out about $1200 for a few months... when I was in college it was rough not having a credit card to put it on. Yes if I drew I would have to pay but the difference is I'm not paying for all the tags just the one I drew which is $250 which I could afford. The point is non resident putting In for draw are out thousands of dollars if they applied for every tag. So most only put in for deer elk antelope because you're not out a ton of money. I guess my point is more people are willing to put in if they don't have to front a ton of money.

 

[dotman]

See I put in for every species in CO, I’m out $9500ish for just me, now times that by 3 to add my kids. Yes some will put in for points for species they normally wouldn’t but I just don’t see how someone with zero pts is going to change anything, maybe some units that were zero pt units will go up but I doubt these increase as people are already going to be putting in for them. It now gives people the ability to build pts for the harder to draw tags but they are still behind everyone else that already has been building pts.

Maybe they should only change to this for the NR, cause so far I only really see residents against it but I bet the resident tune would change if they had the same tag prices and had to front close to $29k for three months just to get a pt for themselves and kids.

 

[orionthehunter1]

I front plenty of money for me and my kids in every state I'm not a resident in

 

[elkduds]

I just don’t see how someone with zero pts is going to change anything, maybe some units that were zero pt units will go up but I doubt these increase as people are already going to be putting in for them. It now gives people the ability to build pts for the harder to draw tags but they are still behind everyone else that already has been building pts.

Maybe they should only change to this for the NR, cause so far I only really see residents against it but I bet the resident tune would change if they had the same tag prices and had to front close to $29k for three months just to get a pt for themselves and kids.

As a resident, I am not for or against it. I don't compete w NRs in the draw. And I always apply w credit card. I am speculating (from long experience w DOW/CPW drawings) what the impact will be. As you noted, this will increase the # of points in the drawing, without the # of licenses increasing. That can only result in point creep. It may not be noticeable in the highest point units for several years, but it will impact the lowest point units in the next few years. I love NR hunters and hope they keep coming to CO. I recognize they pay most of the bills for our CPW. To me resident tags are underpriced, and I support a 50% increase in those fees.

 

[orionthehunter1]

I'm not against it either just stating that it might not affect odds immediately but you will see a drastic change in some species most notably non resident sheep goat and moose. To think it won't is just ridiculous, I mean they made it easier to apply and you don't front any money.

 

[dotman]

I front plenty of money for me and my kids in every state I'm not a resident in

Yeah and how is that affordable? If you wanted to apply for say 4 states and to apply in them all you had to front $30k ea or say $120k a year or pay a service a 5% fee to front the money for you, this makes hunting a rich mans sport.

 

[dotman]

It might effect odds yes but it will also open up opportunities to many that can’t afford the current structure, I’m fortunate that I can put in for pts in multiple states and plan my hunting future, I wish I didn’t have to fork out so much to do it and I’m ok if the pool increases. The number of people hunting overall is decreasing and access to land in many states is a reason, this is another barrier to us including and giving people an opportunity to hunt even if now I have to wait 8 years vs 5 to draw a certain unit etc. I’m still hunting every year and nw maybe a few others are doing it as well or now every few years or once or twice in their life.

Pt creep does suck but not affording an opportunity at pt creep would suck more, imo.

 

[AdamW]

I'm not against it either just stating that it might not affect odds immediately but you will see a drastic change in some species most notably non resident sheep goat and moose. To think it won't is just ridiculous, I mean they made it easier to apply and you don't front any money.

I'm going to have to read up on this some more. I know I'd love to apply for CO moose and sheep but I can't front the state $4,200 for a few months. Well I could, but I ain't. If I drew the tag, I'd happily fork over the dough but that's a lotta money to have tied up.

 

[541hunter]

I will lead off with I do not know much about the Colorado system. But from what I do understand is that it's a preference point system. Under this system you will only start to see creep after the new policy has been in place for the same amount of years as the number of points needed to draw. For example if the system has been in place for 3 years then theoretically there could be a larger pool of people applying for 3 point units which could bump it up. This operates under the assumptions of 1. More people actually do put in due to the policy changes and 2. People already buying points continue to do so.


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