CO 2018 app changes?

[dotman]

Looks like the change is official based on the 2018 Turkey regs?

 

[orionthehunter1]

Yep I stated that back a while ago.

 

[ckleeves]

You guys are crazy thinking this will not effect draw odds. Non resident sheep, moose and goat just went in the crapper now that it will be online and you don't have to front the money. How many non-residents do you think didn't put in cause you had to mail the app and put a check or money order. Now that it is easy many will jump. Resident sheep, moose, and goat will also see a change, granted those tags are only 250 dollars, but how many guys will throw their name in knowing they don't have to front any money? Also most of the changes are in the 2018 Turkey regs that came out.

X2! This is a major step in the wrong direction! This just hosed all the people (res and non res) that have been putting in for years. Colorado needs to start requiring a license to apply like Arizona, Utah and Idaho. It would reduce point creep and generate more revenue.

 

[dotman]

Yep I stated that back a while ago.

Yeah that’s what got me to look at it

 

[Grant K]

It might effect odds yes but it will also open up opportunities to many that can’t afford the current structure, I’m fortunate that I can put in for pts in multiple states and plan my hunting future, I wish I didn’t have to fork out so much to do it and I’m ok if the pool increases. The number of people hunting overall is decreasing and access to land in many states is a reason, this is another barrier to us including and giving people an opportunity to hunt even if now I have to wait 8 years vs 5 to draw a certain unit etc. I’m still hunting every year and nw maybe a few others are doing it as well or now every few years or once or twice in their life.

Pt creep does suck but not affording an opportunity at pt creep would suck more, imo.

Opened up opportunity's don't help anyone when there is an influx of people with the same opportunity... so now your every year elk tag is an every three year elk tag because there is no barrier to entry, who wouldn't throw in the draw just because they could with that system? easy tags become harder to draw, probably by a significant amount, and the people who get too many points for easy tags start making the mid level tags just as bad as the great tags are now, completely out of reach for anyone new to the game...

for elk and deer it will suck but not the end of the world, there are other places to go.. For sheep and goat though what happens in three years when all the new people go in the weighted point pool? even for residents the odds are terrible, throw in more people who don't have to at least fork over a couple hundred bucks to apply, even a handful in units with one or two tags, and odds go from bad to impossible...
How about going the Idaho way and picking one species to apply for? less point creep and if you really want it you can likely get it eventually.

 

[cnelk]

Some information:

1- This online sales 'change' was listed in the 2017 Big Game brochure when it was released in February [like they always do] - so its not NEWS

2- Remember - "$40 PREFERENCE POINT FEE.
Hunters will be automatically assessed $40 per species
($30 for resident deer and pronghorn) for a
preference point unless they have purchased
one of the following: an annual fishing,
small-game, resident combination smallgame
and fishing, furbearer or a big-game
license in the previous year, or a current
limited license in the draw for the same species
for which they seek a point.
The point fee is waived for youth, lifetime
license holders, free senior annual fishing
license holders and residents who are in the
military on active duty outside Colorado.



3 - Anyone wanting to take advantage of the low Colorado resident license fees, please feel free to move here and enjoy the high cost of living, high home prices and legalized marijuana or stop bitching about the high NR fees .

 

[vanish]

As you noted, this will increase the # of points in the drawing, without the # of licenses increasing. That can only result in point creep. It may not be noticeable in the highest point units for several years, but it will impact the lowest point units in the next few years.

I don't understand the logic of how it will affect the lowest point units. If you are playing the short game, ie: low point units, you can probably already afford the tag, and thus could afford to front the money.

Having more points in the game does not by itself create point creep. You have to have more people applying for actual licenses. You only have to look at those people with several more points than what it takes to draw "the best hunt in the state" to see that having points does not mean applying for licenses.

I'm not saying there won't be _any_ point creep - there definitely will - but I don't see it being drastic. If anything, I see a lot more people buying points that will never use them, especially middle income young single people who buy points, then start a family and cannot justify the expense of the actual tag. Right now, those guys don't even start accumulating points because they just don't have the money to front.

 

[ckleeves]

How does this hurt people that have been applying in Colorado? Its a true PP system, so those that just now started putting in will have ZERO impact on those that already have points, because they will _never_ have as many points as you do.

Sheep goat and moose aren’t a true point system. 1000 new people in the sheep draw takes odds WAY down!!!


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[vanish]

Sheep goat and moose aren’t a true point system. 1000 new people in the sheep draw takes odds WAY down!!!


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Yes, you're right, and why I was editing ... but this post is moving quickly

 

[realunlucky]

Sheep goats and moose use a weighted point system so more entries lowers the odds but yes someone can never catch up starting now

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[dotman]

Some information:

1- This online sales 'change' was listed in the 2017 Big Game brochure when it was released in February [like they always do] - so its not NEWS

2- Remember - "$40 PREFERENCE POINT FEE.
Hunters will be automatically assessed $40 per species
($30 for resident deer and pronghorn) for a
preference point unless they have purchased
one of the following: an annual fishing,
small-game, resident combination smallgame
and fishing, furbearer or a big-game
license in the previous year, or a current
limited license in the draw for the same species
for which they seek a point.
The point fee is waived for youth, lifetime
license holders, free senior annual fishing
license holders and residents who are in the
military on active duty outside Colorado.



3 - Anyone wanting to take advantage of the low Colorado resident license fees, please feel free to move here and enjoy the high cost of living, high home prices and legalized marijuana or stop bitching about the high NR fees .

Did you even read this thread?

 

[dotman]

Sheep goat and moose aren’t a true point system. 1000 new people in the sheep draw takes odds WAY down!!!


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Yeah but doubt it hurts resident odds as anyone interested in sheep hunting probably is already in the pool. For the NR people will build pts for future and may never join the pool due to life happening.

 

[dotman]

Sheep goats and moose use a weighted point system so more entries lowers the odds but yes someone can never catch up starting now

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Odds for sheep, goat and moose are already a very very long shot, I’ll keep putting in for them but doubt I ever draw but now it’s atleast less painful to put in and it’s still a long shot for a NR either way, even in the old pay upfront way guys can easily have 30pts and never draw, it’s purely a lotto and you get more tickets based on your weighted pts is all.

 

[ckleeves]

Yeah but doubt it hurts resident odds as anyone interested in sheep hunting probably is already in the pool. For the NR people will build pts for future and may never join the pool due to life happening.

Are you kidding? Every guy who now has an interest in sheep hunting is gonna be putting his wife and kids in just for the chance to go along on a sheep hunt. The 3k a year out of pocket for a few months for a family of 4 was to much. But now for 36.00 everyone is in! I know TONS of guys who couldn’t front the 750.00 a year for sheep, moose and goat who will happily throw 9.00 a year at a chance.

Then you have the “why not?” group who is already applying online for deer and elk. What’s 5 more minutes online filling out a few more apps and getting the CC hit for a few more bucks for a chance at a sheep or goat tag.


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[cnelk]

Did you even read this thread?

I did. And I even answered your question you asked in the first post - "When do the updated regs and big game brochure with changes usually come out?"

 

[orionthehunter1]

Bingo ckleeves you nailed what I have been saying all along

 

[schmalzy]

Bingo ckleeves you nailed what I have been saying all along

Agreed, this is what happened in Texas.

 

[svivian]

If you asked someone to pay $5 to win let's say $1000 versus asking someone to put $500 down for 3 months to win a $1000 and win or lose they get the $500 back which do you think most would choose... why do you think so many people ask where they should put in for. Arizona, Utah, all charge money that is non refundable to put in for the draw and a lot of people don't do it for that reason. Now offer a place that's pretty much free to put in points and it's a no brainer if you are a budget hunter looking to hunt trophy units. Granted you will die of old age before you'll hunt any of the best units in co for elk.

 

[vanish]

So, people with more money don't want to compete with people with less money. Same old story.

"I've got more money than you, so I should be entitled to better draw odds."

If you think this is a step in the wrong direction, and it should cost more to apply, then you'll price yourself out of hunting eventually. Then with few hunters left, the public will end hunting altogether.

 

[svivian]

So, people with more money don't want to compete with people with less money. Same old story.

"I've got more money than you, so I should be entitled to better draw odds."

If you think this is a step in the wrong direction, and it should cost more to apply, then you'll price yourself out of hunting eventually. Then with few hunters left, the public will end hunting altogether.

To be clear I am not opposed to it nor for the change. Just stating that to say it wouldn't increase point creep is not likely as it would make Colorado one of the easiest states to build points for. Obviously I think all of us want hunting to be affordable for all and I appreciate the fact that as a resident I can elk hunt every year very affordably.