Best methodology to research and plan hunts.

[philos]

I've been trying to evaluate the best way to research data to know where, when and what to hunt in Wyoming. I have invested in pref points for 12 years for 4 different species.

I have printed and reviewed pages of data and tried to evaluate the information. What is tough to find is things like the attrition rate of pref point holders, the recent weather effects on game and what changes Wy G&F might put in place. This seems particularity difficult on elk non-res as the deadline to apply is Jan 31st.

Beyond the obvious draw odds and quotas available-what would you use to try and get in depth data to help with our decisions?

Thanks!

 

[Trial153]

Gohunt

 

[LaHunter]

^^^^^^
See above. You have 12 pp for 4 species? Go hunt, you have lots of options for high quality units with 12 points.
Go to WY regs and see what your drawing odds are, I think 12 is max or very near max points.
Once you narrow your search down to a few units, get on the phone with the biologist and the game wardens.

 

[BuzzH]

I think if you still have 12 points for all species, you've missed the boat.

I like to hunt, not collect points.

The winner is not the person that dies with the most accrued preference points. The guy that wins is the guy that hunts as often and as much as they can, and doesn't have a single point, for any species, in any state when they take the dirt nap.

Points are for burning...you have blown some great opportunities already in great years.

The trouble with saving your points and trying to guess what's going to happen next year...you DONT know what's going to happen. How are you going to feel about a tag you waited for 12 years to draw, researched for 12 years, and then draw the tag in an "off" year? Hit crappy weather? Have health issues? etc. etc. etc.?

Hunt while you can...tomorrow is no guarantee.

 

[ShakeDown]

So... that’s not helpful. He’s not asking if he should build points, or asking for a lecture on why he shouldn’t have built points. He is asking for help now that he has points. It’s not that I disagree, it’s just that the response is not helpful to the OP.

GoHunt usually has a 30d trial, I would definitely sign up and get started there. Wyoming recently changed their structure but with max points you stand an excellent chance at drawing a great hunt. Wyoming’s point system is 12 years old... you’re at the top of the food chain with 12pts.

Another thing to consider is that Wyoming has that stupid rule about wilderness hunting if you are a non-res. It’s a no go unless you have a local guide. Like others have said I would personally start with GoHunt and move to local Game and Fish for any additional info.

Good luck! I’m jealous, I wish I had the options that max points allow.

 

[BuzzH]

How did Wyoming change their structure?

One would think with 12 years to research, you could find a unit to hunt a deer, elk and pronghorn in.

The variables he's talking about are impossible to predict. He wants to know, where, when, and how he should burn his points...good question. Maybe the best advice would be to have madam leota with her crystal help...

Best thing to do is just pick a unit, apply as late as possible to see what quota's look like, and go for it. Hope you don't get crap weather, hit an off year, etc.

The sad part, is I see many guys in that exact same boat, year after year...burning their max points on "perceived" top units according to Eastmans, GoHunt, Huntin' fool, and advice on internet boards. Most take the same, or smaller animals, that they could have taken 12 of while they waited to hunt. High expectations create a lot of long faces...see it all the time.

It aint rocket science...if the OP is looking to cash out on what everyone perceives as the best units, just look at the draw odds and apply accordingly. Simple.

If the OP is looking for a handout on a unit that flies under the radar, anyone that knows, likely isn't talking, if they're smart.

Plus, giving a poor hunter the best tag, doesn't mean much. Give a good hunter, the worst tags, and good things happen...

Classic example of another problem with point systems...unrealistic expectations of what a good hunt should be, because I burned max points and waited 12 years.

For the record, my first post did answer the question of when, where, and how you can go about things. Hunt units you can draw, as often as you can...that's how you beat the when and where. I've done it in several states. Best example is AZ, I've had 4 rifle bull tags since 2008, donated one tag to hunt of a lifetime, shot 2 300ish 6 points, and killed a 356 6 point. Did that rather than take a chance on accruing points and having the rug jerked out from under me on unknown factors that I cant control.

Carry on...

 

[ShakeDown]

Well Wyoming changed their price structure, significantly, first off. I’d imagine the changes will start all sorts of shifting in application strategies.

And again, while I do not disagree with what you are saying, why even post if you aren’t going to be helpful? No one is asking you to give up your honey-hole. So you disagree with how the OP went about his strategy? Ok. Move on.

Draw odds are not the be all end all. Harvest statistics, public (huntable) land availability, trophy potential, even past weather/drought data are all things I look at when applying.

Anyhow, I’m sorry if I’m coming across as confrontational. I just feel like as hunters we have enough going against us these days to not support our own if we can.

 

[BuzzH]

Would it be better to say, well, just keep stacking up points and research things for another 12 years that aren't attainable?

People with points want to take out every variable...my point (pun there) is you cant.

Go hunting...have a good time and quit worrying about it.

Nobody can give the OP better advice than that.

Probably shouldn't have given that advice, savvy hunters will catch on...

 

[Trial153]

Buzz I call bullshit. You added nothing but an not to subtle jab at the guy calling him a fool for building point. You didnt even make any attempt to answer the question. You acted like an asshole. You have no idea what an where this guy been hunting while his points been stacking up in WY, but your assumption that he been sitting on his ass with a hope an dream let’s you make your I am smarter than you Post.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz I call bullshit. You added nothing but an not to subtle jab at the guy calling him a fool for building point. You didnt even make any attempt to answer the question. You acted like an asshole. You have no idea what an where this guy been hunting while his points been stacking up in WY, but your assumption that he been sitting on his ass with a hope an dream let’s you make your I am smarter than you Post.

Don't agree with you at all...you're just looking for a quarrel when doesn't exist.

I've went with the same "strategy" in UT with deer that the OP is taking...trying to predict when and where to "strategically" use my 19 deer points. I'm in no mans land...should have burned them at least 7-8 years ago. I tried being all strategic...looking at point pools, looking at attrition, trying to rub the crystal ball. Meanwhile, a chitload of tags have been robbed from the NR pools, tags allocated to different hunts, and I'm still years and years and years away from drawing a tag there. I'm also 19 years older, and that is another limiting factor.

In a nutshell, I messed up big, blew it. I could have likely drawn 2 tags in a unit that can produce the same caliber of buck the "glory" units produce. Strategy and waiting bit me...for a wide variety of reasons. You know what else, I still haven't hunted deer in Utah. Great strategy eh?

I went with a different strategy in AZ and its been much better than studying draw odds, trying to predict weather, looking at drought tables, trying to predict attrition and all the other stuff that NOBODY can predict. In the same amount of time I've hunted UT zero times, I've done 3 awesome deer hunts, 3 awesome bull elk hunts, desert sheep, 7-8 javelina, and even donated an elk tag to hunt of a lifetime in AZ. Difference is intuitively obvious, even to a casual observer.

Another problem that was alluded to by ShakeDown is also true...waiting for 12 years to draw tags, expect point systems, quotas, price increases for points and tags, all kinds of things to change. If I would have been waiting for a rifle or archery elk rut tag in AZ, I likely would still only have a stack of points to show for that effort. In particular with the 50-50 split in random VS point pools that was recently adopted. Instead I have 3 nice 6 points, 3 great experiences and not begging for information asking where to spend my mountain of points.

The OP could be, and IMO, should be, well on his way to 2-3-4 tags for all 3 species in great units. That's worth a lot more than 12 years of points.

Points are a trap...and I'm in one, big time, in Utah, much like the OP is now in with max points in Wyoming.

I don't blame him for wanting to get all the information he can, but much of what he's wanting simply isn't going to be found and waiting longer isn't going to change that fact.

BTW, I bet you're really a fun guy to share a camp with...

 

[realunlucky]

He wants nothing more than you do with your 19 points in Utah. The best opportunity to be rewarded after waiting so long. Buzz your really not being helpful to him in anyway.

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[BuzzH]

He wants nothing more than you do with your 19 points in Utah. The best opportunity to be rewarded after waiting so long. Buzz your really not being helpful to him in anyway.

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I disagree...completely.

There is nobody that can predict long-term changes to quota's, quota splits, fee increases, weather, drought, hurricanes, bad weather during the season, early/late migrations, hunting pressure, disease, and all the other stuff you're risking when you wait a decade plus to draw. You beat all that by drawing early, and drawing often...just a fact.

The guys I know that do the best hunting, they don't find success in stacking points. They find success by drawing tags and actually hunting. Funny how that works.

For the record, I recognize and own my f-up in Utah with deer, and wont ever be asking for help from anyone on where to apply. I did it to myself, and knew better.

 

[wymtnpounder]

One thing to consider would be whether or not you're wanting a diy or guided hunt. A lot of the trophy hunts in wy are mainly wilderness which would require a guide.

 

[ShakeDown]

The point is he has the points. So any lamenting or should-haves are off topic.

Buzz you have valid perspective, and yours is honestly a point of view I agree with to a large extent.

However, my point is this isn’t a “Guys I need help with a point/application strategy” - it is a thread started by someone looking for alternative research strategies that he may not have considered.

Moving on to the OP, I apologize if I contributed to derailing. I want to also add that 12pts is the current max (I believe) in WY. You may know this, but at this juncture unless you cannot hunt due to other restrictions, building further points gives you no additional benefit.

Hope you pull your top choice and have a great hunt!

 

[Brandon@RBO]

All depends on what type of trophy you are considering taking to satisfy your expectations? There are a lot of good units that hold great animals.....there are also a handful of great units that hold great animals. We usually try and help build a personal hunting profile specific to the hunters expectations, weapon choice, timeframes of drawing, success rate, and size of animals they're wanting to hunt? If you are curious about certain units or want more details feel free to message me? Resources like forums and other hunting pages like this one are also a big help as you can usually get info on the prior hunting season from other hunters. Of course weather is always a big factor...I had a Utah LE archery elk tag for the Wasatch unit this past year, and because of the hotter than normal Fall, it was a tough hunt with unresponsive bulls and very little activity. Elk we're going to bed @ 8 in the morning and the caliber of bull I was after were far and few between. 8 good bulls on camera in an area where there wasn't a lot of pressure and the bulls rubbed and moved out of the area. Found some smaller bulls and had a great time, but unfortunately never had the opportunity to draw my bow back. A great hunt still as I had an opportunity to find new areas and build new friendships with fellow hunters!!


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[philos]

OK-well I guess I did not to a very good job of clarification on my original post. I have 12 moose pref points and 10 for elk and deer and 4 for antelope.

I've hunted elk by getting general tags as my 2nd choice-hunted antelope twice and deer a couple of times in recent few years. I was only trying to make a point that I am serious about hunting but not looking to go blind into units I have zero knowledge of.

I am grateful for the responses but truly we should put as much effort into constructive criticism as downright ridiculing.

I am generally going solo and particularly want to have a good elk hunt this year. Turning 55 this year.

Buss is right with the statement - " Hunt while you can...tomorrow is no guarantee"-which is exactingly why I am doing this research and asking opinions.

Going into a hunt area with no idea of where to go is just as bad- if not worse- than collecting points with no plan.

Species specific:

Moose-feeling like my 12 points don't mean much unless I am OK with a cow moose hunt-2k is an expensive cow moose tag though.
Antelope-4 points-I've only hunt lopes in 2 units and 4 won't get me there-I am OK with waiting on this as I have 2 good lopes.
Deer-10 points-this is where I am likely most confused about to proceed given the problems with herd depletion in the western part of Wyo.
Elk-10 points. My first priority is elk. I am looking at possibly a guided hunt in limited quota areas. I wanted to go with unit 30 as I have some familiarity with this area but less than max will not get this tag. I last hunted in unit 81 near Dubois-a general tag area. No problem going back but I would not burn 10 points to do so.

Thanks to all responding-even the bashing message has some value to it.

So in a nutshell-I am doing far more research than most folks and trying to get good info as I go-I do understand that when the dust settles you just have to go hunt but at $707.00 for a tag it really isn't that simple anymore.

Thanks again!

 

[cnelk]

BuzzH is spot on.
Thumbs up

To the OP.
You're at bit at fault for not having your own plan over past several years, and now ask for suggestions on getting the inside scoop.
Highly unlikely someone is gonna give you a golden nugget.
You're going to drive yourself batty trying to figure stuff out that is beyond your control. Way too many variables.
The data/information that is online, everyone else has the same intel.

PPs are never wasted.
Ive drawn units and left twice as many PPs it took to draw on the table and had the most memorable hunts ever.

Ive applied for PPs for decades. Always had a plan and a goal. And they were achieved.


You say you want a 'good elk hunt' this year.
I tell people the best way to ruin a good elk hunt is to kill an elk

Good luck in your quest

 

[philos]

cnelk

Thanks for the comments minus the "inside scoop and golden nugget comments". Assuming that I have no plan is a bit presumptuous on your part.

I am sure I could have done things differently but I did not post this in hopes of getting any handouts or golden nuggets. Never asked for anything remotely close to that and I would not expect it.

I try to be open minded and open to constructive criticism but why do some folks just look to offer their opinion of how others don't do it right?

I would add that I have been out to Wy in off season to scout--boots on the ground- a few times. I have called biologist and wardens a few time as well. I've planned with hunting partners also but looking like they will not be able to go anymore-health reasons for one.

Thanks to all!

 

[cnelk]

Beyond the obvious draw odds and quotas available-what would you use to try and get in depth data to help with our decisions?

I dunno. This statement sounds like youre asking for something more...

Again. Good luck in your quest

 

[LaHunter]

How did you go about researching your previous elk, deer, and antelope hunts?
Do you have any units in mind that you have already done any research on? Do you have any specific questions about specific units?

I understand where Buzz is coming from: Don't come to class unprepared. If you have done your homework, then you will have some 'better' questions for the class.
If you don't already have an application plan in place for a specific elk unit (or a limited few), it may be better for you to research over the next 12 months and apply next year. You only have about 15-16 days left in the non res application period. Without someone giving you their spot, you will be really rolling the dice if you have no info at all on a unit.

In general, I decide on a location first, based on what it requires to draw a tag, how often I want to hunt, etc., etc., then I buy points until I am able to hunt the unit. For deer, I hunt every year. For elk, I've been building points for the past several years for a specific area. Hopefully I will draw this year.

There is a lot of info available on the Game and Fish websites, if you will spend some time there. Also, like I posted earlier, speaking with the game wardens and biologists is time well spent, but have your questions written down (from your previous research) and have your maps open for reference, so you make valuable use of your time and theirs.

Good Luck