Fair Chase and using an AR pistol for "Handgun Hunting"

[PNWTO]

So this came up on another forum and wanted to see what Rokslide thought.

A user commented that during their dedicated handgun season and/or handgun-only area they were excited to use a .300 BLK AR pistol with a scope to "[harvest] deer at 200yds while [everyone else] misses at 50."

I was concerned by this statement as I really don't feel that such a method is in the spirit of Fair Chase in the specific context of a handgun-only restriction. I like AR pistols but they really are just "gaming" some loopholes in regards to legal firearm definitions and all the bullshit laws we have to navigate. But I do think that using an AR pistol in such a way is in poor taste and doesn't reflect well on hunters. Also, anytime the system is "gamed" or exploited the regs tend to shift to harder and stricter methods.

Just interested to hear some thoughts.

I should add, I know that most places have definitions of what a legal hunting handgun is... for the sake of discussion on the ethics of the act let's not get into the weeds with such things.

 

[Nuke Man]

I bet this same complaining came up a long time ago fir archery season when the compound bow was introduced. I say let the guy hunt h I w he wants to hunt. If the state doesn't define "handgun" then use what you want.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Hmmmm.

The only thing that bothers me about AR’s and hunting, pistol or otherwise, is the potential adverse perceptions of the anti gun crowd and hunting being deemed guilty by association with “evil” weapon platforms.

From a practical perspective, I have recently seen a pretty impressive 100group from a 5.5 inch barreled AR style pistol shooting 300 blk. I think it would do just fine on deer at closer ranges. The only real advantage it might offer over say a Thompson center pistol, that can be had in a rifle caliber, is fast follow up shots. I don’t have a problem with that as long as we aren’t talking about spray and pray type shooting.

 

[Nuke Man]

People been hunting with AR platforms for a long time now.

 

[MuleyFever]

The longer range is nothing people weren't getting for a long time now with the T/C's.

 

[Nuke Man]

I think he's just scared of the black gun

 

[JWP58]

You could do the same with a scoped t/c single shot. I fail to see how its unethical.

 

[huntsman22]

don't be a Zumbo......

 

[huntaholic123]

I say more power to them as long as all laws are followed and the shots are ethical. Everyone has the same option to use and AR platform if they so choose.

 

[mvmnts]

Sounds like that user is going to break the law for 5 seconds while nobody is looking if he's looking to hit something at 200 yards. He's gaming the system having an "AR pistol" to begin with, and he's gaming the system again to use it hunting, but there's really nothing to be done about it.

 

[PNWTO]

Thanks everyone for your replies. To be clear, I don't think that what he is doing is intrinsically wrong. Instead, I guess I just don't have the palate for it, personally. I hunt coyotes with my AR "Recce" rifle and if I lived in the East a .300 Blk upper would most likely be my deer rifle.

 

[KJH]

My favorite gun hunting for big game is with a revolver. I wish I had a special season for it.

My favorite is a .460 revolver with a 14" barrel. It has a 2-7x scope and I can hit what I'm aiming at at 200 yards over and over with an excellent rest. I've only taken shots to about 160 on a deer but its awesome and makes me smile every time. I could shoot 5 shots quickly if I needed to do so (kinda given the recoil). This would have similar results to a 300 AAC with a 5 round magazine.

Is an AR pistol a semi-auto just like a 1911, glock, etc.? Could you use a 1911? Could you use a single shot 300 AAC? Yes to all.

Is it gaming the system? Is it illegal? Is it violating the spirit of the law/season? Does caliber and cartridge define what is a pistol/revolver? Is it a loophole? No to all.

Taste and appropriateness is determined by each individual. I wouldn't personally use an AR style pistol, but there is nothing wrong with using one (where legal) that is poor taste in my opinion. I wouldn't get a tattoo, but I don't think its in poor taste or intrinsically wrong for someone else to do so if they like it and its legal. I love hunting deer and turkeys with a re-curve bow, but I don't think compound bows or crossbows are gaming the system or wrong.

Obviously these are just my personal opinions and I'm trying to illustrate my point. The system and laws are what they are. Stay within the boundaries and do whatever makes you happy. In the end, I think the real discussion to be had, has to be a legal discussion not an ethical discussion. Make it illegal, and I'm against it. Otherwise, I'm just glad to see they are out hunting and not on the couch perpetuating a soft society.

 

[Rthur]

Hmmmm.

The only thing that bothers me about AR’s and hunting, pistol or otherwise, is the potential adverse perceptions of the anti gun crowd and hunting being deemed guilty by association with “evil” weapon platforms.

From a practical perspective, I have recently seen a pretty impressive 100group from a 5.5 inch barreled AR style pistol shooting 300 blk. I think it would do just fine on deer at closer ranges. The only real advantage it might offer over say a Thompson center pistol, that can be had in a rifle caliber, is fast follow up shots. I don’t have a problem with that as long as we aren’t talking about spray and pray type shooting.

In your first statement I see from a different angle.
This is in fact proof that these "weapon" choices are good for hunting.
The evil black gun narrative is a result of Media's bias and complete lack of understanding about the the subject they try to expound on.

R

 

[Jimbob]

These kind of discussion can be had for every piece of gear/tactic that increases odds of success. Trail cameras, camo, tree stands, electronic devices of all sorts, long range compound bows, crossbows, long range rifles the list could go on and on. I set certain limits to the gear I use based on my PERSONAL tastes.

During rifle season I would not want to shoot a moose at 1500 yds, heck I even have carried my bow during rifle season for moose because its what I like. I in no way look down on someone or think they are less ethical then me for an alternative and legal method they choose.

 

[Broomd]

If it's legal, there shouldn't be an issue.
And frankly it's probably more ethical in that it may provide for a cleaner, more precise kill from a 'pistol' platform.

 

[vanish]

Edit: Sorry, I realize this is a bit off topic! I'll add a more appropriate thought.

I have no problem with the user's choice of weapon as long as it is legal and used effectively.

Special seasons for alternative firearms are pretty much an industry play these days. Create a pistol season to sell more pistols. A muzzleloader season to sell more muzzleloaders, etc. Technology has become too advanced to really justify them from a conservation perspective.

 

[cuerro viejo]

How is this even remotely a question of fair chase?

Not a fair chase question, it’s a sustainability question.

Every season be it Archery, pistol, rifle, shot gun, muzzleloader is based off success percentages that maximizes hunter opportunity while maximizing sustainability of the resource.

Just look at Muzzle loader regs for NM vs CO, then look at differences in dates and tag numbers.

Same agruement was brought up in Texas when crossbows where allowed during Archery season. It didn’t effect sustainability but didn’t increase hunter number/opportunity so it was passed.

 

[BrushyHillGuide]

Only thing that bothers me is hunters imposing their own preferences on other hunters under the cover (a.k.a. guise) of “ethics.” I can make arguments against all sorts of methods and techniques from trad hunting to LR hunting; from hunting with dogs to guided hunts; etc, etc. But I don’t, because those types of arguments within the hunting community are BS and only benefit anti-hunters. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. It’s very simple. Otherwise, keep your mouth shut and try backing your fellow hunter instead of bashing him/her. Nobody cares about my personal ethics and I don’t give a damn about anyone else’s. I can’t speak for others but I don’t belong to hunting forums to get validation of my own code of ethics nor do I feel the need to convince others to adopt my beliefs and practices. I come here to share my passion with others that share that passion; whether it’s solo hunting 10 year-old rams, hunting hogs over piles of corn, calling elk in September or shooting coyotes in the face in February. I like spending time talking with other hunters - even those that do things differently than me. Diversity in the hunting community is part of the glue that binds us but a lack of tolerance and conceit is the acid that will degrade those bonds and, ultimately, lead to the destruction of hunting as a sport and a part of the American way of life.


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[Backpack Hunter]

Nothing wrong with using an AR pistol, he would be shooting well to be reliable at 200 yards with the 300 blackout.

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