Dropping out of the WY moose race

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May 11, 2014
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Kotzebue, AK
I really wanted to hunt moose in Wyoming. I've hunted elk there 5 times and love the state.
But I'm dropping out of the WY moose race. Not out of necessity, but rather in protest. I could have stomached the tag price increase from around $1400 to around $2000 as I apply for moose tags in other states with similar tag prices. It's the preference point system and preference point cost that gets me.

A NR WY moose PP now costs $150 and you have to buy it to enter the race. And that's besides the application fee, just to play the game.

Here's the kicker: Most moose units in WY take 15-20 points to draw, with most of them being in the 17-19 range. I'm a younger guy. I wasn't around for the introduction of the system - I have 4 points. There are 5000 NRs with between 5 and 14 points, nearly 7000 people have 5 or more points, and WY currently gives out 57 NR moose tags per year and that number continues to drop as moose numbers drop.

At the current rate of tag allocation, that's an 87-122 year back log. If you're just getting into the game now, the picture is even worse as there's nearly 12,000 people with more points than you - so you're looking at close to a 200 year wait. Now of course, people drop out and no one live to 200, so that number is ridiculous, but it goes to show that my only chance of drawing comes when I'm very old, if ever.

I could hang on till I'm very old, but at $150/yr for "maybe," I'm insulted enough to vote with my wallet. Even if they didn't raise PP fees ever again in my lifetime, I'm still looking at paying 5 grand over my lifetime in just PP fees and I'm not guaranteed a tag so I'm gambling that 5 grand.

There are the 5 units with 6 random tags between them and that's where I and most everyone else with lower points puts in: Units 5, 24, 25, 26, and 38. But the odds in these units is dropping and tag numbers have been dropping in 5, 24, 25, and 26 due to wolves and I only see that continuing till the number of tags in these units drops below the needed amount to have a tag in the random pool and 24 will most likely lose one of its two soon. IMO, the random tag numbers will go from 6 to 2 in the next several years with overall WY 57 NR tags dropping along with moose numbers as they have, which only makes the preference point problem worse and diminishes the attractiveness of applying with a lower amount of points. Moose quality and numbers are going down in WY, but the costs to apply are going up.

Even if you have 10 points right now, there's still over 4000 people with more points than you.

In all honesty, if I didn't have to pay the PP cost, I'd keep applying, hoping to get a random tag even though the odds are ridiculous (one in 600 in 38, 1 in 100 in the other units), but I refuse to continue to pay for the turd that is the WY moose PP. When it was $75 or $100 or whatever it was, I looked at it as the cost of playing the game. But raising the price for something that has no value is just insulting.

I feel like if more people saw these numbers, that more people would drop out. Part of it is that you send in the tag cost + PP fee + application fee and just get less back when you don't draw, so it softens the blow.

But I don't think I'm the only one. I don't think it'll be enough people for WY to not see a net increase in revenue from the increase in cost, but I hope more people will see the reality of this ridiculous system and drop out.

And I won't be back till the fee is decreased or the asinine preference point system is either scrapped or changed to a bonus point system, which is the only solution to a system that creates an eventuality where only 80 year olds are the ones that draw a tag.
 
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As a Wyoming resident I would agree with your decision. I myself, don’t know what to do. I can’t draw any of the so called coveted tags quite yet but I am more concerned with the lack of moose. I hunted the top coveted tag two years ago and didn’t see a bull. I hear this year was even worse. I was over in another area and again, no bulls or moose. I walked around fly fishing in a river bottom, swamp land and I never saw even sign. For the cost it is for a nonresident I would take that money, bank it, and go to Alaska/Canada. I am considering doing that for other species here in Wyoming but that’s due to how the state has mismanaged the wildlife. (My opinion, and mine alone). Good luck in your other adventures.


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Trial153

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I am out as well, sheep too. I might as well burn the 300 I will get more out of the heat then what I get sending it to WY
 

204guy

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While I don't disagree with anything posted above, no other lower 48 state is any better. Simple supply and demand really.

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While I don't disagree with anything posted above, no other lower 48 state is any better. Simple supply and demand really.

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Spot on. Utah is horrible. Both my parents are just a couple of points under max and the number of people in their point pools is incredible. A couple of hundred in some units that only issue a handful of tags.

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jeffpg

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Mississippi & Texas
It’s a dilemma that I hate dealing with. I am fine with playing the game of the application process up to a point, but when the quantity and quality is dropping and the cost is climbing at such a high rate it takes some of the fun out of it for sure. I hate to see the years of investment made towards a tag thrown away, but to continue is worse!
 
OP
I
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Sure, Utah odds are terrible, but I'm already going to be applying for elk in Utah no matter what so it costs me $10 to apply for moose in Utah. I'll probably never draw a Utah moose tag, but there's a huge difference between $10/yr and $160/yr. I'm still applying for elk in WY, but it does not give me any benefit in the cost of the moose draw like it does in Utah.
 
OP
I
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While I don't disagree with anything posted above, no other lower 48 state is any better. Simple supply and demand really.

This is not true. Idaho has way better odds for drawing a moose tag than Wyoming and for the cost of applying in Wyoming ($160), there are raffle tags, like Washington, where the odds are actually better with that kind of money spent. And at least in Montana, your points actually mean something. A WY PP is worthless unless you're near the top or got in when you were pretty young.
 

204guy

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Well yeah except(going by memory here) ID makes you buy a hunting license first and then there's that pesky 10% cap on NR tags that makes calculating NR odds kinda tricky. I'm not defending WY I'm saying getting a goat, sheep or moose tag as a NR is playing the lottery in any lower 48 state.

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philos

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Behind you
It has gotten to be a difficult situation. I have 14 moose PP but I believe I am out also. I had thought I would give in and apply for a cow moose tag but probably not for 2k.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the increase in tag costs and how this will impact the sales of PP going forward. I certainly don't have the answers and I get the need for the state to raise revenue but this is pretty discouraging stuff.
 

bradb

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Jan 8, 2013
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I have 15 pts so I guess I am going to play the game and hope fully get my one and probably only Shiras moose. Its a tough not to want to bail out if you are very far back at all
 
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I feel worse for my kids (9 and 10) when they are eligible to be put in they have pretty much no shot in our home state let alone in another state.
 
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I wont play the game either, in any state. I'm too far behind. Didn't even know about points and such until couple years ago. At 33, with no points, I would be lucky to draw in 25-30 yrs. When I add up application and points fees, thats several thousand dollars. No thanks. Ill save my money and go on a semi guided Canadian moose hunt very 5-7 years or do DIY alaska every 10 years.

Same thing with sheep. Ill never play points game. I will go unlimited montana if I ever want to try it. Or move to Alaska
 

handwerk

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Kinda makes you wonder about the whole point system doesn't it?
I wonder if any of the western states have a long term plan for when they get to a generation that doesn't hunt much, applying/buying points gets crazy expensive and the the small towns that used to plan on out of state hunters don't get them anymore....
 
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I honestly don't think they look that far ahead. Right now they are seeing the points fees and app fees as a means to an end for budget shortfalls as of now. There are residents here who will not even draw a primo elk tag, not to mention the fact that 90% of people will never draw a sheep, moose, or goat tag. I believe it has gotten to a point of seriously re-assessing the points systems in multiple states. If not where is the incentive for kids or up comers to even put in for points?
 

JWP58

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Boulder, CO
As a Wyoming resident I would agree with your decision. I myself, don’t know what to do. I can’t draw any of the so called coveted tags quite yet but I am more concerned with the lack of moose. I hunted the top coveted tag two years ago and didn’t see a bull. I hear this year was even worse. I was over in another area and again, no bulls or moose. I walked around fly fishing in a river bottom, swamp land and I never saw even sign. For the cost it is for a nonresident I would take that money, bank it, and go to Alaska/Canada. I am considering doing that for other species here in Wyoming but that’s due to how the state has mismanaged the wildlife. (My opinion, and mine alone). Good luck in your other adventures.


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Weird. Go down to 38 in the snowies, there is no shortage
 
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Kinda makes you wonder about the whole point system doesn't it?
I wonder if any of the western states have a long term plan for when they get to a generation that doesn't hunt much, applying/buying points gets crazy expensive and the the small towns that used to plan on out of state hunters don't get them anymore....





I think it's a get what you can, while you can kinda thing. With wolves wrecking western herds to the points that human hunters are continuing to get less and less opportunity, I believe they realized that soon enough, the ones willing to still pay are going to die off. So by increasing pp costs and, considering the average investment those that harbor hope with the "pay to hopefully play" mentality, they intend to cash out while they have the odds to generate revenue easily. With hunters always positioned to take the most loss concerning opportunity, the ability of these states to run up large revenue for the "hope" to hunt something like this in the future, is getting less and less. I know that sounds like a tinfoil analogy but, there is more at play here then simple supply and demand.
 
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