New house bill for Idaho

[bluetick78]

10 years ago I would've been really upset that the State of Idaho would even consider a law like this.....until I purchased a large peice of land. My land is adjacent to BLM on 2 sides and the trespassing is awful. I painted the tops of every other fence post orange and posted "No Tresspassing" signs at every gate. It took a week for every sign to be shot up with shotguns and someone even cut the tops off most of my painted posts so that there was no orange paint visible. Seemed like every time I went out there the gates were down and people were shooting or riding motorcycles.
I was nice at first and just asked them to leave. Most people were apologetic and quickly left, but one incident led to a physical altercation and I had to press felony charges and spent months in attorneys offices and court. Now I allow no one besides family or close friends on my property. I check it every day, and if there are trespassers present they will get law enforcement called and they will receive a citation. No exceptions. Instead of approaching trespassers with kindness, I'm now very heavy-handed and unbending, unless there are children present. I believe that laws like this could be avoided if people were more aware and actually cared about others. Do some research before you leave the house, make sure that your intended area is public or that you have permission and are aware of the boundaries. I will continue to post my property even if the law says I don't have to, but make no mistake...I'm looking forward to some of my chronic local trespassers being rewarded with a felony conviction and loss of a large portion of their constitutional rights as a prize for their cro-magnon disrespect for myself and my neighbors.

 

[bigdesert10]

I don't think any one on this thread is advocating for trespassing. We all want to follow the law and not run afoul of lawful land owners. People who abuse other's property ought to absolutely be punished. I think all we really want is some reasonable heads up. I think the orange paint rule is plenty cheap, discreet and effective. Why is it so much to ask where the line is?

 

[mfllood3800]

I can see this coming down to who has the burden of proof?

Does a land owner have to prove the other person was in violation of trespassing , or does the accused have to prove their innocence, and how could a judge believe either, with out hard facts instead of he said she said I said circumstantial evidence.

This proposed bill puts a whole lot more at stake for the accused, while eliminating the need for the Land owner to post property.
I would hope the burden of proof doesn't require the trespassers to prove their innocence. That would almost appear to be a purposely stacked deck against hunters, hikers and out door enthusiasts. Then I would truly wonder what is the true motive of this bill.

I also have property in Az that is adjacent to BLM. It is an endless barrage of OHV constantly around us. The battle for property protection is real, for those of you against this bill.
How ever, as a land owner in a couple states, I feel it is my job to secure my boundaries.
I have never felt it was the users of the Gov lands to know exactly where they were. You see in the desert there is a horse with no name. You just sang that line didn't you.
Seriously , in the desert, is different than woods and mountains like my Utah properties. It gets much harder to identify land marks to correctly know where you are. Without signs, or GPS units, it just wouldn't be easy to do.

I guess I am on both sides of this argument. I see it with both eyes wide open.

 

[Mtnboy]

It's too much to ask for land owners to mark their boundaries because the Wilks Brothers don't want to have to pay someone to mark the thousands of acres they just bought and locked up.

So instead of going along with the marking law that has been in use for over 30 years, they are using the Politicians that they have bought and paid for to get what they want...regardless of what the public wants or what is good for the public.

I have sympathy for those who have had issues with trespassers and I agree that trespassers should be dealt with as severely as possible...but I don't think its at all unreasonable to require some form of marking by land owners as well.

 

[OG DramaLlama]

Contacted my representatives to oppose this Bill....The hunter and the landowner should have equal responsibility in this game . Fine with increased penalties, but felony for trespassing is too much. To encourage less transparency of ownership is going to have unintended consequences. Increased confusion on ownership leads to more violations on an already enforcement entity beyond capacity. Less signage will bring more trespassing to to the smaller private landowners and who will struggle to get enforcement. This will really only benefit the biggest....This smells of Wilkes brothers stank to me.....

Judy Boyle from Midvale introduced the bill....Really close to West Mountain.....

Her comment:
“It is for those people who come and cut your fence and drive out in your field. That is intentional,”

Just so she knows....That is already illegal. Her bill doesn't fix that.

I sent a note to Idaho BHA as well...Surprised I haven't seen anything from them yet.

 

[mfllood3800]

In Utah it is the land owners responsibility to properly fence their property. If someone's cattle are out grazing and they get into a land owners property and cause damage, the cattle owner is not responsible, the land owner is. Ask me how I know.
But this could change for the right price I am sure.
Who knew there was gonna be this much wealth for politicians who get bought out.

 

[IdahoElk]

The problem is that this is heavily wooded country. A person can easily walk into an area without knowing signage was even present. 600' is a large area.
This thread has been an eye opener, but i"m glad for it. We'll be posting everything, and so will all of our neighbors per my last posting..

The ranch I work on triples the required amount of signage required by law and people still trespass saying they didn't see them.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I can see this coming down to who has the burden of proof?

Does a land owner have to prove the other person was in violation of trespassing , or does the accused have to prove their innocence, and how could a judge believe either, with out hard facts instead of he said she said I said circumstantial evidence.

This proposed bill puts a whole lot more at stake for the accused, while eliminating the need for the Land owner to post property.
I would hope the burden of proof doesn't require the trespassers to prove their innocence. That would almost appear to be a purposely stacked deck against hunters, hikers and out door enthusiasts. Then I would truly wonder what is the true motive of this bill.

I also have property in Az that is adjacent to BLM. It is an endless barrage of OHV constantly around us. The battle for property protection is real, for those of you against this bill.
How ever, as a land owner in a couple states, I feel it is my job to secure my boundaries.
I have never felt it was the users of the Gov lands to know exactly where they were. You see in the desert there is a horse with no name. You just sang that line didn't you.
Seriously , in the desert, is different than woods and mountains like my Utah properties. It gets much harder to identify land marks to correctly know where you are. Without signs, or GPS units, it just wouldn't be easy to do.

I guess I am on both sides of this argument. I see it with both eyes wide open.

Oh it’s pretty simple, especially with today’s technology.

I don’t get threads like this. I grew up with what isn’t yours isn’t yours, lines of convince aka fences aren’t always the legal property boundary so beware, regardless of fence no fence, if you don’t have permission you don’t have permission, and the Ol better to beg for forgiveness then ask permission is a felony.

I just don’t get it the uproar, Now I would like to see every land owner who post on public land nailed for at the very least littering, with escalating fine and charges.

 

[Jesse Minish]

?? ....I have no idea what much of that means, but in regards to the last part, we will! And I've already called the neighbors as of this morning. We'll be doing a community 'posting' of all the acreage down our entire road.

Thanks for the heads up.

Edit>>>>
Hmmmm...and then I read this...?
New or old "law" I really don't care ...You're a jealous nutjob...

Just sharing something I have dealt with many, many times. I can assure you I am neither of those names you called me but more just horrible at conveying my thoughts through text without sounding so I guess...

 

[mfllood3800]

Oh it’s pretty simple, especially with today’s technology.

I don’t get threads like this. I grew up with what isn’t yours isn’t yours, lines of convince aka fences aren’t always the legal property boundary so beware, regardless of fence no fence, if you don’t have permission you don’t have permission, and the Ol better to beg for forgiveness then ask permission is a felony.

I just don’t get it the uproar, Now I would like to see every land owner who post on public land nailed for at the very least littering, with escalating fine and charges.

No body is arguing this ?
Not sure how you concluded what you did.

The issue is in unmarked, changing properties, or selling of land once ok to hunt, but now not, and trying to stay on top of it, to avoid severe fines.
All while property owners have no responsibility to mark their property Any more.

The bill wreaks of underlying purposes with hidden agendas.



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Broomd]

Just sharing something I have dealt with many, many times. I can assure you I am neither of those names you called me but more just horrible at conveying my thoughts through text without sounding so I guess...

My apologies then....I'd share a campfire...

 

[Idahomnts]

I was talking with a friends dad that hunts around cascade area that was potlatch and now from what I understand is Wilkes bros, he was saying something to the fact that they are aiming to make their recently purchased land a private hunting reserve, my friends brother in law runs cattle and some land up there and kinda buddied up with some of the new land managers,sounds like he has permission on said property. weather this is true or not idk, I apologize for the lack of facts ... would like to buy that guy another beer and get to the bottom of the story, but like others have stated I believe it is a whole different game being played and there is probably some BS overpaid politicians behind this ,

Anybody with an onx Idaho chip forsale ???

 

[mtwarden]

proper posting keeps the honest guy/gal from making a mistake; if a person trespasses with proper posting he isn't making a mistake and needs to be dealt with accordingly

as far as unlawful posting (posting public lands), the landowner needs needs to be dealt accordingly as well

I think it would also behoove Idaho to make an effort to post public lands that are mixed in with deeded; we put a lot of effort into this effort in SE Montana and it reduced conflicts immensely (it also freed us up to take care of more serious crimes)

 

[Ntgm37]

Here is my personal story:

I was hiking on an access road through private property up to the Forrest. Along the way I cut off the road in a straight line instead of switchbacking with the road. Followed the precious GPS that everyone who owns land on this thread seems to think is infallible. On the way up a G&F warden approached me to tell me I trespassed on a ranch owned by Hunt Oil. I said impossible and showed the idiot warden my never wrong, brand new, up to date GPS. He then had me walk back down with him and we followed his this time. Sure as sh!t, I crossed a sliver of the multi billionaires ranch, but on mine it wasn't. Over $3,000 in attorney fees later, G&F won. I'm on probation because of this.

The part that drives me crazy is that the ranch manager has a rule to ensure that the ranch loses money each year so the Hunt family (which hasn't been to the ranch in over 23 years) can claim a loss on the property and get a giant tax break.

Yes people who always trespass somewhere should be fined. How about an effing warning first? Maybe some common sense as well.

Both sides have reasons to hate a Bill like this, or love it.

 

[flyinsquirel]

So just how accurate is a handheld GPS with a chip at marking property lines?

 

[mfllood3800]

So just how accurate is a handheld GPS with a chip at marking property lines?

According to some, they have a disclaimer relieving them of any responsibility to be wrong- if that helps


Kind of crap IMO considering todays technology.

 

[MuleyFever]

So just how accurate is a handheld GPS with a chip at marking property lines?

This may be a good question. If I record my track and can show that according to GPS I was on public land how much weight will that carry in court? Can one prove that the satellite used to make the boundary was more accurate than the ones my GPS was tracking? If there was no actual marker how can one prove I was just over the line? Unless you are actually measuring off USGS markers I guess.

 

[gwl79902]

So if they find that private land does not need to be posted should public land be required to be posted? I hate it that BLM land is almost never marked in any way. Tome a 4 wire fence on public ground look just like a 4 wire fence on private land. At least Forest service has a few signs. I am in Oregon and the trespass laws are very difficult here, in my personal opinion. I have seen where people unintentional violate the law and are punished for it. I do not like to have solicitors come to my door but I do not complain about it because I am too lazy and cheap to put up a sign asking them to not come to my door. If I do not want them there then I need to tell them so, if they then choose to violate I would have a reason to complain. I know my front or is much different than 100000 acres of land but it is also the same. I have the right to do with my land what I want, within reason, but I also should have to make my wants know to the law abiding person.

 

[Randle]

That's what I am trying to figure out. Whose gps is right? Reminds me of the old saying.
"The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two always wonders.

 

[Shrek]

You’re miles deep in an unfamiliar checkerboard area and your GPS dies. If there are no postings there’s no way for you to legally navigate. There needs to be property postings. Especially if the penalties are going to be severe.