21 Years Old...

[Jbehredt]

So there is no supervised training involved? You don't have to prove your proficiency with the weapon? The weapon and ammo isnt stored in a secure place? They just hand you a gun and say "here you go, do what you want with it"?

So do you support gun training or a blanket increase in the legal purchase age? Do people magically become more proficient with semi automatic rifles between 18 and 21 years of age? I can’t stand American youth as much as the next guy. I served with the lazy turds. It blows my minds that these mindless creatures are allowed to drive at 16. I do however support my inalienable rights, including gun rights and don’t want to see knee jerk reactions erode my rights.

 

[Jbehredt]

I think you just made his point. If they survived a couple of weeks of boot camp, I would feel better handing them an M16 than the kid that just woke up in his Mother's basement, and skipped school (his third year in 12th grade) to go to the gunshop to buy an AR-15.

So maybe this kid needed more boot camp? Also I think his mom is dead, part of his “mental health issues” as it were.

 

[bmart2622]

I see nothing wrong with increasing the age to 21, I also see no reason to keep bumpstocks legal. My point was that ab 18 yr old in the military who is getting supervised training with a gun is different then an 18 yr ild walking out of a store with an AR and able to do whatever they want with it.

 

[Jbehredt]

I see nothing wrong with increasing the age to 21, I also see no reason to keep bumpstocks legal. My point was that ab 18 yr old in the military who is getting supervised training with a gun is different then an 18 yr ild walking out of a store with an AR and able to do whatever they want with it.

Within the constraints of the law of course...... the same law that makes murder a capital offense. I would hate to see the age changed and politicians hanging their hat on it as “we’re protecting you”. Then the next shooting happens.... what do we give up then. Real solution I’m all in on. How about if you’re expelled from school it’s like a felony on your record, no guns ever. If you can’t handle public school you can’t handle a gun. Drug testing as part of the background check.... anti depressants, narcotics you’re out. Anxiety or clinical depression as excluding factors.....That would have prevented this guys purchase without punishing millions of responsible people. Bump stock are stoopid an an obvious work around of long standing law, yes I see no good reason to keep them.

 

[IdahoElk]

They will still be able to shoot the gun,just not purchase it.
Does anyone know the statistics of kids 18-21 that even buy this type of gun?

 

[5MilesBack]

I think you just made his point. If they survived a couple of weeks of boot camp, I would feel better handing them an M16 than the kid that just woke up in his Mother's basement, and skipped school (his third year in 12th grade) to go to the gunshop to buy an AR-15.

And therein is the problem......the parents have failed in their parental boot camp in raising these kids. But that's not a big surprise, we've seen that happening for a few decades now with the push against proper child raising and good discipline. Then idiots start this thing with "participation trophies" and the kids never learn that there are in fact "losers" in every aspect of life. They all feel entitled so when they enter real life they get a shock to their system and the only way they find to deal with that is "I'm entitled" and "look at me too".

We as parents and the school system was supposed to train these kids up to be adults. Both have failed miserably with "new-age" parenting tactics and so-called self-esteem experts telling everyone what's best for the "kids". They never learned how deal with problems because someone is always there to "remove said problem" before they can figure it all out. Bullying is not allowed, fighting back is not allowed, working out your differences is not allowed, disciplining is not allowed......but when they need the discipline the most, the parents rely on drugs to calm the kids (and maybe even themselves) instead of tackling the problem. Years of not being allowed to solve or work through their problems festers up until they go full-on whackjob. Yep, parents have failed big time. And we've allowed our schools to be turned into Liberal Loon Daycares and........here we are. Yay!

 

[Laelkhunter]

So maybe this kid needed more boot camp? Also I think his mom is dead, part of his “mental health issues” as it were.

More boot camp? I don't recall him having any. A structured environment with adequate adult supervision (a DI) could have made a difference.
His mother died a year ago, long after he created a pattern of discipline problems. We have all lost loved ones, many BOTH parents. Doesn't give anyone an excuse to go shoot up a school.

 

[Laelkhunter]

While I agree with most of the stuff on this. There is literally no evidence relating video game consumption to increased levels of violence. It has been studied for years. Google it all you want.

Thanks for the suggestion. I googled it, and "Time Magazine" has an article under "Mental Health / Psychology" titled "Violent Video Games are Linked to Aggression, Study Says". The American Psychological Association stated that playing violent games IS linked to aggression, but there is insufficient evidence to link the games to actual criminal violence.

" In an Aug 13 report, the ADA reviewed more than 100 cases and concluded that playing video games can increase aggression while lessening empathy and sensitivity toward aggression". "The ADA says no single factor can drive someone toward violence or aggression, violent video games could be classified as one risk factor".

I guess you and I could be both correct in the matter, but I am leaning toward the link between violent games where you can kill people with no punishment and being able to get "killed" and just press a reset button, to not being able to make a conscious decision toward committing an act of aggression or violence. Experiencing life by only playing video games will not be a healthy environment to teach anyone life and death reality.

 

[NDGuy]

I guess you and I could be both correct in the matter, but I am leaning toward the link between violent games where you can kill people with no punishment and being able to get "killed" and just press a reset button, to not being able to make a conscious decision toward committing an act of aggression or violence. Experiencing life by only playing video games will not be a healthy environment to teach anyone life and death reality.

I would agree with the idea that it desensitizes people to violence and distorts peoples perception of reality. But TV, social media, and movies do the same thing.

But do games make people go ballistic or actually perform violent acts? No. I just wanted to clear that up. Millions of people play games and go about their normal lives just like anyone else with hobbies.


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[5MilesBack]

Millions of people play games and go about their normal lives just like anyone else with hobbies.

Exactly........just as millions own and use guns every day and go about their normal lives like anyone else with hobbies.

Think about the stats for a moment. .01% of the population (that's .0001 times ~350,000,000 people) would be 35,000 people. We definitely have at least 35,000 criminals in our society, but do we have 35,000 nutjobs running around shooting up schools or theaters or anywhere else there is a "gun-free" zone? Of course not. The numbers are even WAYYYY less than that.

So when 99.99%+ of the population doesn't have a problem acting responsibly in this manner, does it make ANY logical, reasonable, or any other characterization sense to create new laws that affect everyone, when only .001% or less of the population has shown they can't handle that responsibility? Seriously? It's already illegal to shoot up a school. It's already illegal to murder people. Obviously having laws doesn't stop these people from committing crimes. Adding new laws won't stop them either.

 

[Laelkhunter]

But do games make people go ballistic or actually perform violent acts? No. I just wanted to clear that up. Millions of people play games and go about their normal lives just like anyone else with hobbies.


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I agree

 

[NDGuy]

So when 99.99%+ of the population doesn't have a problem acting responsibly in this manner, does it make ANY logical, reasonable, or any other characterization sense to create new laws that affect everyone, when only .001% or less of the population has shown they can't handle that responsibility? Seriously?

I agree to an extent, but I also would be totally fine with making the age 21 or just having a higher restriction to owning a semi auto rifle.

It won’t affect me or other law abiding citizens from owning one so I don’t have an issue with it taking longer to attain one.



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[gbflyer]

Love all the parenting tips here. All very easily said until you get a "bad kid". What about the same parents who have "normal kids" to go along with their "bad kids"? Still bad parenting? There are kids that no one can get through to. We need to accept that as a society but we certainly can't punish everyone else for it.

There are some totally clueless people in this world. And some can legally buy a gun. Scary.

 

[Murdy]

I see some logic in the proposal.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but most school shooters are current or former students of the school they shoot up. Maybe if they had to wait for a while before buying an AR or similar weapon, they'd have time to let that anger, from whatever source, dissipate a bit before they made a tragic decision.

 

[Murdy]

And I don't think parents are "bad" per se. Economic reality has forced a lot of mothers out of the home and they just can't be there as much as they used to be.

 

[Whaledriver]

I am too for an all out ban on evil "military hardware". It is dangerous to untrained and undisciplined civilian commonfolk. We all know that law enforcement can protect us 100% of the time. While we are at it the driving age should be raised to 25. The speed limit reduced to 20 in all zones. No more than 100 horsepower in any circumstance. Beer should be reduced to .02 ABV sold in four packs only. Just think of the lives that will be saved.

 

[kicker338]

Raise the gun ownership to 21 ok then raise the min. age to be in the military. If 18 is too young for a gun then they have no business being in the military period. Might even limiting the age to hunt to 21 and older, if your too young to own a gun you have no business it the woods with one period. You better think about this one guys.

 

[Diesel]

I think the system here in New Zealand is a good one. You can get a firearm at 16, BUT, in order to get a firearm in this country, you've got to sit a written test, prove you've got a safe space to store the firearm, and (the most important part in my opinion), your family is interviewed by a vetting officer, along with someone who knows you but is outside of your immediate family.

This system ensures that anyone who is truly passionate/serious about shooting can still purchase their own gear (even at a young age), but because people in their social circles are consulted beforehand, it gives the police a clear picture as to what the applicants' mental health history has been like. A background check isn't enough (regardless of someone's age), because it does not prove anything about the individuals' subtle personality traits.

Maturity and mental health can not always be determined by somebody's age. There are plenty of young people who deserve to own firearms - and, on the contrary, many adults who do not.

I think any new system in the USA should tackle the elephant in the room (mental health) rather than handicapping law abiding young people.

Excellent strategy and very good reasoning. This should be the law from 16 up to 23 years old. I only say 23 because the youth today are less mature and more urban than in past generations. The guys who are raised around hunting and shooting would not have any problem getting parents and friends to support them if they are deemed responsible and stable. Military are exempt as they are trained and evaluated, but the commander should still be required to sign off on it for that occasional nut job that joins just to get a gun.



This whole video game violence thing is disturbing, so is cyber bullying. Kids today are exposed to so many tech issues that were not around for past generations. My guess is that these things seduce a few kids and separate them from reality.

Media pounding this shooting and others in the past and keeping score on the new record dead is huge as well. The constant drum of how many are killed challenges copy cats to see if they can beat the record.

Kids are not taught history or civics now days. Too many don't understand that the second amendment was not there for preserving hunting but as a protection against the tyranny of a too powerful big government. AR's are important to the masses to give them a fighting chance to keep our freedom against a more heavily armed and compromised military. Every one of these mass shootings evokes emotions of the anti-gun crowd and weakens our freedom. Most gun owners have even questioned what level of their rights to give up in response to these horrible events. But remember, if you give up the right to bear arms, you will most assuredly give up your freedom. One must only have had to witness the past two years to validate that point.

Thank You Vegeman for a most enlightening post and bringing a solution to the problem.

How long has this been in practice in NZ and what level of violence has NZ seen under this approach?

 

[timekiller13]

How dumb. Raising the age to 21 will not solve anything. Eric Harris and Dylan Kleibold (the Columbine shooters) were not of legal age to own any firearm. Yet, they both got a hold of weapons, even though they couldn't buy. Then, they violated more laws by making sawed-off shotguns. So, they illegally obtained firearms and illegally made weapons of mass destruction (sawed off shotgun, along with pipe bombs). They also had high capacity magazines (illegal under the Brady Act at the time). So, clearly, all these laws were very helpful in preventing these two people from committing mass murder. If laws were all it took to prevent this happening, then it would never happen because all the laws are already in place. The kid in Florida broke the law by bringing a gun onto campus. Then he broke the law by killing people. The laws are already there. Making more laws will not prevent this from happening again.

 

[bmart2622]

Raise the gun ownership to 21 ok then raise the min. age to be in the military. If 18 is too young for a gun then they have no business being in the military period. Might even limiting the age to hunt to 21 and older, if your too young to own a gun you have no business it the woods with one period. You better think about this one guys.

Ridiculous, apples to oranges