Rei now

[Trial153]

I think there's much of this post that shows how confused and misinformed many are on this issue and what a challenge the NRA and those who truly support the 2nd have in terms of education of the masses against the mega liberal media machine that very rarely even makes a real effort to report on this issue in an unbiased way. So easy to be indoctrinated and go with the politically correct flow.

It's a David and Goliath issue in that getting the unadulterated message across, while challenging the liberal media and public education system (teacher unions often being the issue) mega machines at the same time, is very difficult. But it's a worthwhile effort to educate and that effort will never stop. All those liberals, though, need to practice what they preach and open their minds to a different message. When I have this conversation with liberals, I tend to find their minds are generally the most closed I run across. Nearly impossible to have fruitful conversation as their name calling starts and they shut down what could otherwise be a rational conversation.

This thread also shows how many hunters and gun owners in general are confused and misinformed on the issue. Been there.

Join the NRA. Upgrade you membership. By memberships for those who might not otherwise if they agree to it so they get the magazines (American Hunter [wait, what?] or American Rifleman) and they can maybe start to hear the other side of the story just a little bit. Not a perfect organiztion--show me one that is--but one of the few battleships still afloat with some firepower to battle an armada of ill-conceived, politically correct liberalism.

buddy you spout talking points like they are going out of style. Indoctrination can work both ways and your proving it.

The NRA is far from perfect and honestly i think they need to adapt to a changing environment or they will contuine to loose ground. If they can Disenfranchise someone like me, a life member who coughed up money for the cause then for sure they are on shifty ground with Joe Q Public. Adapt or die.

To quote Darwin: “It is not the strongest species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change.”

Heraclitus: “All is flux, nothing stays still—there is nothing permanent except change.”

 

[jmden]

buddy you spout talking points like they are going out of style. Indoctrination can work both ways and your proving it.

The NRA is far from perfect and honestly i think they need to adapt to a changing environment or they will contuine to loose ground. If they can Disenfranchise someone like me, a life member who coughed up money for the cause then for sure they are on shifty ground with Joe Q Public. Adapt or die.

To quote Darwin: “It is not the strongest species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change.”

Heraclitus: “All is flux, nothing stays still—there is nothing permanent except change.”

Speaking of being flexible, I'm not sure quoting a man dead 150 years, much of whose work has been entirely discredited (by his own quotes) since then shows adaptability and flexibility. There are some things to adapt and flex to, others not. Depends on what you think important and how deep your beliefs run. Some are willing to die for their beliefs, others...not so much.

I think it likely we will see the NRAs influence continue to grow. A good thing if they can keep their message on point and appropriate.

À chacun ses goûts, but lets all be willing to have a rational discussion and exchange of ideas. As it turns out, no one among us knows everything and the collective of everyone who every lived still knows very little. Let's try to keep an open mind and listen to both side--something often difficult for all of us. Gotta love our wonderful human nature we all battle against.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Not sure there's a lot of listening going on here so throwing another .02 in the bin will most likely get lost.

The BHA is doing some good work, no doubt about it but for some reason I get the feeling they aren't what they say they are...

When you take a big picture look at politics in Washington, it's at the margins where policy happens. The NRA gets this. You oppose 2a?? Someone running against you is going to get a windfall of campaign dollars.

Bart stupak from Michigans upper peninsula was always known as conservative socially democrat..

When the vote came up for Obamacare he showed his colors.

How many anti 2a but pro public lands congressmen in state and federal level congresses will do the same thing when the feet get held to the fire??

Big big big picture, knives, fists and blunt objects kill nearly 10 times as many people as rifles!

Something like 100 times children are molested as killed with a firearm.

But it's crickets chirping with leftists when you mention these stats.. Why? It's pretty obvious. Because under their elitist mentality they don't want to admit that humans are predisposed to violence..

As for peopl cherry picking data sets about mass shootings. Montana, Nd,SD, Wyoming have never had a mass shooting.

 

[orionthehunter1]

Buzz's silence is speaking volumes right now

 

[Cant hit em]

Doesnt BHA offer up firearms for certain membership pledge’s as a incentive ? That should be a slight hint on their stance , no ?


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[204guy]

Yes they do a bolt action (sniper) rifle, with a lifetime membership. Doesn't mean much. Plenty of fudds out there and on here. It's unfortunate that BHA was even mentioned in this thread, but there's some very serious concerns out there with the groups leadership. When 1 of them is attacking the NRA on an open forum, well the obvious question is what's your stance. Which still hasn't been clarified btw.

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[CoHiCntry]

Doesnt BHA offer up firearms for certain membership pledge’s as a incentive ? That should be a slight hint on their stance , no ?


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I would say no it doesn't hint on their stance. No one would say BHA is anti-gun. Obviously they hunt using firearms. There are a lot of gun owners in this country who don't really support the NRA and do support gun control measures.

My problem with BHA is the left wing politics of the leadership. And their ties to other environmental organizations that I wouldn't support due to their extreme views. I've almost pulled the trigger on a BHA membership several times but just can't make myself do it. I love that they are leading the charge on the PLT issue and would love to support a group that's doing that. Every time I get close though, I start looking into them and just can't make myself do it.

It's definitely a strange position they are in. I bet the majority of there membership are staunch 2A supporters and NRA members. The vast majority of them probably have no clue about the leaderships involvement with organizations that would strip their rights away in a hot minute if given the opportunity.

 

[FURMAN]

I did not read every post. I am not sure where I stand on the issue with REI. I will suggest people consider the fact that many politicians are hard at work trying to take our public lands. I have not done any digging but I suspect REI is fighting to keep public public.

 

[204guy]

Ryan you should just read the link in the OP. This doesn't have anything to do with public lands, that's a total side track brought on by a BHA state chair.

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[cuerro viejo]

I did not read every post. I am not sure where I stand on the issue with REI. I will suggest people consider the fact that many politicians are hard at work trying to take our public lands. I have not done any digging but I suspect REI is fighting to keep public public.

Quick run down... before it totally gets lost in another “Look at me, send your money to BHA, hunting is about to end” moment

A group of anti gun and hunting individuals have been pressuring(big petition) REI to drop Vista Outdoors because of the other side of thier business-their hunting and firearm brands( they own: gold tip, Savage, Federal ammo, CCI/Speer ammo, blazer, RCBS etc and a host of non shooting brands), before this last shooting, REI has essentially now done so.

It is no secret REI’s stance on hunting. It’s shown in every way they do business from the affiliate program to sponsoring anti hunting orgs.

Essentially this dropping doesn’t have crappp todo with the NRA, it’s because Visa owns a couple Gun and ammo mfg’s and hunting brands.....Period


At this point it’s beyond how someone views the NRA. You either support Vista or you don’t.

 

[FURMAN]

Quick run down... before it totally gets lost in another “Look at me, send your money to BHA, hunting is about to end” moment

A group of anti gun and hunting individuals have been pressuring(big petition) REI to drop Vista Outdoors because of the other side of thier business-their hunting and firearm brands( they own: gold tip, Savage, Federal ammo, CCI/Speer ammo, blazer, RCBS etc and a host of non shooting brands), before this last shooting, REI has essentially now done so.

It is no secret REI’s stance on hunting. It’s shown in every way they do business from the affiliate program to sponsoring anti hunting.

Essentially this dropping doesn’t have crappp todo with the NRA, it’s because Visa owns a couple Gun and ammo mfg’s and hunting brands.....Period


At this point it’s beyond how someone views the NRA. You either support Vista or you don’t.

Ryan you should just read the link in the OP. This doesn't have anything to do with public lands, that's a total side track brought on by a BHA state chair.

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I read the link in the original post the day it came out but thanks for the run down anyways. It DOES have to do with public lands. I completely get that REI is and probably always has been anti gun. On the other hand they do support public lands and we need as much support for public lands as possible. That is why I said I do not know how I feel about them. I can not speak for all of you but without public lands I will no longer need to worry about hunting. Unfortunately us hunters are stuck in a political hard spot. The left wing liberals want our guns the right wingers want our public land. This is really no different when you are trying to decide where to spend your money and vote with your wallet so to speak.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I read the link in the original post the day it came out but thanks for the run down anyways. It DOES have to do with public lands. I completely get that REI is and probably always has been anti gun. On the other hand they do support public lands and we need as much support for public lands as possible. That is why I said I do not know how I feel about them. I can not speak for all of you but without public lands I will no longer need to worry about hunting. Unfortunately us hunters are stuck in a political hard spot. The left wing liberals want our guns the right wingers want our public land. This is really no different when you are trying to decide where to spend your money and vote with your wallet so to speak.

Then tell them to match the $89million that Vista sent just last year to the fed that is dispersed to REAL SCIENCE backed conservation. Donating to org that sue the fed to stop real science backed conservation isn’t true conservation

Period.

 

[dotman]

I read the link in the original post the day it came out but thanks for the run down anyways. It DOES have to do with public lands. I completely get that REI is and probably always has been anti gun. On the other hand they do support public lands and we need as much support for public lands as possible. That is why I said I do not know how I feel about them. I can not speak for all of you but without public lands I will no longer need to worry about hunting. Unfortunately us hunters are stuck in a political hard spot. The left wing liberals want our guns the right wingers want our public land. This is really no different when you are trying to decide where to spend your money and vote with your wallet so to speak.

Question, do you think they support you having a firearm and protecting the right to carry one on public lands?

 

[FURMAN]

I am not sure what you are getting at. It is almost like you are arguing with me when I agree with your point. It sounds like to me by your logic we should only spend money with the one who spends the most for our cause. I couldn't care less where you spend your money. I rarely spend money at the "tree hugger" stores. My only point is we have a lot more in common with them than, apparently, you wish to acknowledge. If given the choice I will always spend my money with a company that supports public land, hunting, AND the 2nd Amendment.

 

[FURMAN]

Question, do you think they support you having a firearm and protecting the right to carry one on public lands?

The answer is in your quote. The funny thing is, it seems you guys do not want to acknowledge that most politicians supporting the 2nd Amendment do not feel you should have public lands but you have not apparent problem with them.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I am not sure what you are getting at. It is almost like you are arguing with me when I agree with your point. It sounds like to me by your logic we should only spend money with the one who spends the most for our cause. I couldn't care less where you spend your money. I rarely spend money at the "tree hugger" stores. My only point is we have a lot more in common with them than, apparently, you wish to acknowledge. If given the choice I will always spend my money with a company that supports public land, hunting, AND the 2nd Amendment.

2.56 billion In revenue and only donated 9.3million to “ conservation” partners...

That’s embarrassing to even argue a conservative stand point... it’s a joke, what many would even consider a scam. Is that even a percentage point of revenue?

 

[cuerro viejo]

The answer is in your quote. The funny thing is, it seems you guys do not want to acknowledge that most politicians supporting the 2nd Amendment do not feel you should have public lands but you have not apparent problem with them.

If that was the case then “dooms day” would have already been passed. Washington is under Republican control. It’s a great funding scare through

 

[dotman]

The answer is in your quote. The funny thing is, it seems you guys do not want to acknowledge that most politicians supporting the 2nd Amendment do not feel you should have public lands but you have not apparent problem with them.

No I support orgs like BHA, NRA, RMEF, SCI etc that support my stance in certain ways, no org is perfect. But I won’t support an org like REI any longer as they have made their stance perfectly clear. While REI may be fighting for public they are not fighting the same right to public fight hunting and conservation orgs are. If REI will no sell certain products because a company owns other companies that sell firearms then it’s safe to say they are only donating to anti-hunting orgs, the same orgs pushing for wolves to be further reintroduced into more states and protecting the Grizz from being hunted.

I guess if you think REI does more then other companies, such as Rokslide sponsors that donate 2% for conservation and donate to BHA, then spend your money there.

Guess what I’m saying is, if you want to support companies that support fighting for public land, there are many hunting oriented companies that do exactly that. Why give your money to REI over all the sponsors here that sell the same overall products?

 

[Diesel]

I just don't see there needs to be a choice here.

I am fine with REI or whoever wanting to have public land open to hiking, camping etc. If BHA is just an org wanting the same thing for hunting, fine.

According to BuzzH, the NRA is neutral on PLT, OK.

So as a NRA supporter of 2nd amendment rights, I can still support access to public lands for hunting, camping, hiking and not be against BHA, IF, and only IF, there is no behind the scenes spending of funds going to anti-2nd amendment groups by BHA. I can and I am for keeping public land open and accessible to all Americans. As a hunter I want to be able to hunt and I need a place to do so if not a large landowner. As an American, I believe in the constitution and the freedoms it protects and would die to ensure it's endurance as written and without it I am no longer free.

I could be really taken in, but I believe the NRA is primarily concerned with the 2nd as a protection of the constitution, but also adds weight to hunters issues and concerns as well. I would think that without hunters, the NRA would be diminished, and without the NRA hunters would not have as great a chance of keeping their firearms. It would be very short sighted to not believe in both.

When I read that some folks say that their hunting is more important to them than the 2nd amendment, they are exposing their lack of understanding that the horse must be in front of the cart.

REI and whoever else is against firearms of any kind short of tanks and grenades, I see that as a threat to my freedoms and I chose to spend my funds elsewhere.

All Americans need to understand their responsibility in Keeping America free. We can have fun hunting on our public lands as long as we acknowledge that there is a price to pay for freedom.

 

[Billinsd]

No I support orgs like BHA, NRA, RMEF, SCI etc that support my stance in certain ways, no org is perfect. But I won’t support an org like REI any longer as they have made their stance perfectly clear. While REI may be fighting for public they are not fighting the same right to public fight hunting and conservation orgs are. If REI will no sell certain products because a company owns other companies that sell firearms then it’s safe to say they are only donating to anti-hunting orgs, the same orgs pushing for wolves to be further reintroduced into more states and protecting the Grizz from being hunted.

I guess if you think REI does more then other companies, such as Rokslide sponsors that donate 2% for conservation and donate to BHA, then spend your money there.

Guess what I’m saying is, if you want to support companies that support fighting for public land, there are many hunting oriented companies that do exactly that. Why give your money to REI over all the sponsors here that sell the same overall products?

I was thumbing through all these posts and found some logic and common sense. And articulated very well!! Bravo!!