hunter4life
Lil-Rokslider
Getting mine in cash. I am letting them know that it will be used to purchase ammunition.
Rei now
- Thread starter Cant hit em
- Start date
Please tell me how you are interpreting Bill c-16? I never heard of it until your post and looked it up. I am against any form of prejudice. I don't care if you're black, white, yellow or polka dotted, Gay, Bi, Straight or transgender. I live by a simple system. If you are nice to me I am nice to you. Respect everyone and expect respect in return. I have no tolerance for Bully's or bigots.
brocksw
WKR
Interesting conversation going on here, I read the whole thread a couple times. I have come away with a few things. 2 posts.
1. Can’t remember who said it, but they probably saw it in an article written by Ultimate Uplands that was floating around facebook. Here’s the link: You Can’t Spell Hypocrite without REI - Ultimate Upland
However, there is a significant problem with the way that article portrays this situation.
They state: "In 2017 alone Vista Outdoors’ brands generated $87 million for the Federal Aid and Wildlife Restoration Act"
That $87 million is generated through an excise tax... A tax that is set into place by the Pittman Robertson act. It has nothing to do with generosity on the part of Vista outdoors. The excise tax is without a doubt, built into the pricing model of the items they sell. I believe 75 percent of which, is guns and ammo. Vista isn't paying into the Pittman Robertson... YOU ARE! Every time you buy a savage rifle, or federal ammo, YOU are “upping” Vista outdoors excise tax contribution, to the tune of 11 percent of each purchase (as required by the P-R act). This is a tax I support and agree with. It generates a lot of money to go to the outdoors.
What would be interesting to know is how much Vista outdoors donates outside of the excise tax that they are required to pay by the Pittman-Robertson Act? I would guess it is not what REI donates at over 9 million a year. Furthermore, lets not forget Vista outdoors is a 3 billion dollar company themselves. So again, HUNTERS are the biggest supporters of hunting and wildlife conservation... Because it's their money spent that is feeding the Pittman Robertson. Companies like Vista are purely the means to a tax to obtain that money. If that excise tax wasn't there, would Vista be as generous? One can only speculate and argue on Facebook. I will say corporations are not typically known for their generosity...unless it suits their shareholders pocketbooks or CEOs annual bonus... i.e. good publicity.
To my knowledge, none of Vista outdoors brands are members of the 2% for conservation either. However, a couple do support BHA as a sort of “corporate sponser” if you will.
Also let's not forget that REI is a consumer co op, the largest in the country. They pay out almost 200 million in dividends checks to their customers every year. They put over 50 million into retirement and incentives for their employees every year. This all takes away from the profit margin... Which probably sits somewhere around the 30 percent margin (before all of those payouts) if I had to take a guess. Since they are a co-op they share a large majority (if not all) of their financials. They are on record of having donated 70 percent (about 9 million) of their profits (money left over after paying dividends, retirement, operating costs, purchasing goods to keep stores stocked) to nonprofits in the conservation world. They have been a well-run company. They give a lot back... Even if it's not directly to hunters and anglers. Their shareholders are their employees and customers.
Vista outdoors has stockholders to please. If you visit their website they brag about the conservation funds they generated through the excise tax... Like they had a choice, they did not. That’s also why their own website doesn't really show much for conservation funding and contributions. A few thousand here, a 100 grand there, they make mention of a support for the farm bill... Some other legislative things but that is it.
I'm not arguing for or against REI or Vista... I support the 2nd amendment. Most of the time I buy from whichever company sells it the cheapest... But articles like the one above do no good for anybody. They twist numbers and words to twist minds and influence people. People need facts and the truth... Not agenda and bullshit.
Ultimately, REI can take a stance on whatever they want. You can boycott them if you want. This is a free country and the First amendment allows them to hold whatever stance they like, whether it agrees with you are not. I will keep my membership and buy from them when they give me the steepest discount. To date, I’ve bought 2 things from REI and returned one of them. Their customer service was great, they price matched without complaint, and accepted my return without complaint. It’s a free market, give me the best price or I will buy from somewhere else.
1. Can’t remember who said it, but they probably saw it in an article written by Ultimate Uplands that was floating around facebook. Here’s the link: You Can’t Spell Hypocrite without REI - Ultimate Upland
However, there is a significant problem with the way that article portrays this situation.
They state: "In 2017 alone Vista Outdoors’ brands generated $87 million for the Federal Aid and Wildlife Restoration Act"
That $87 million is generated through an excise tax... A tax that is set into place by the Pittman Robertson act. It has nothing to do with generosity on the part of Vista outdoors. The excise tax is without a doubt, built into the pricing model of the items they sell. I believe 75 percent of which, is guns and ammo. Vista isn't paying into the Pittman Robertson... YOU ARE! Every time you buy a savage rifle, or federal ammo, YOU are “upping” Vista outdoors excise tax contribution, to the tune of 11 percent of each purchase (as required by the P-R act). This is a tax I support and agree with. It generates a lot of money to go to the outdoors.
What would be interesting to know is how much Vista outdoors donates outside of the excise tax that they are required to pay by the Pittman-Robertson Act? I would guess it is not what REI donates at over 9 million a year. Furthermore, lets not forget Vista outdoors is a 3 billion dollar company themselves. So again, HUNTERS are the biggest supporters of hunting and wildlife conservation... Because it's their money spent that is feeding the Pittman Robertson. Companies like Vista are purely the means to a tax to obtain that money. If that excise tax wasn't there, would Vista be as generous? One can only speculate and argue on Facebook. I will say corporations are not typically known for their generosity...unless it suits their shareholders pocketbooks or CEOs annual bonus... i.e. good publicity.
To my knowledge, none of Vista outdoors brands are members of the 2% for conservation either. However, a couple do support BHA as a sort of “corporate sponser” if you will.
Also let's not forget that REI is a consumer co op, the largest in the country. They pay out almost 200 million in dividends checks to their customers every year. They put over 50 million into retirement and incentives for their employees every year. This all takes away from the profit margin... Which probably sits somewhere around the 30 percent margin (before all of those payouts) if I had to take a guess. Since they are a co-op they share a large majority (if not all) of their financials. They are on record of having donated 70 percent (about 9 million) of their profits (money left over after paying dividends, retirement, operating costs, purchasing goods to keep stores stocked) to nonprofits in the conservation world. They have been a well-run company. They give a lot back... Even if it's not directly to hunters and anglers. Their shareholders are their employees and customers.
Vista outdoors has stockholders to please. If you visit their website they brag about the conservation funds they generated through the excise tax... Like they had a choice, they did not. That’s also why their own website doesn't really show much for conservation funding and contributions. A few thousand here, a 100 grand there, they make mention of a support for the farm bill... Some other legislative things but that is it.
I'm not arguing for or against REI or Vista... I support the 2nd amendment. Most of the time I buy from whichever company sells it the cheapest... But articles like the one above do no good for anybody. They twist numbers and words to twist minds and influence people. People need facts and the truth... Not agenda and bullshit.
Ultimately, REI can take a stance on whatever they want. You can boycott them if you want. This is a free country and the First amendment allows them to hold whatever stance they like, whether it agrees with you are not. I will keep my membership and buy from them when they give me the steepest discount. To date, I’ve bought 2 things from REI and returned one of them. Their customer service was great, they price matched without complaint, and accepted my return without complaint. It’s a free market, give me the best price or I will buy from somewhere else.
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brocksw
WKR
2.
I’ve seen some people in this thread wondering what BHA’s stance is on 2A. I’ve also seen them ride Buzz (Wyoming board member?) trying to get an answer out of him. I think this raises a couple issues to address.
First of all, he does not speak for BHA National. As a member and supporter of BHA myself, I can tell you that the National Board does not e-mail all of their local chapter board members to inform them of BHA’s stance on every single politically charged topic that comes along. Their mission and focus is PUBLIC LAND conservation and Access conservation for Hunters, Anglers, and outdoorsman. They have NEVER wavered from that. I did not see BHA take a stance on transgenderism, the war in Iraq, the tax cut, etc.
Does this mean they are against all of those things? Or does it mean that it is not in their wheelhouse?
They support OUR PUBLIC LANDS and POLICY that supports and protects OUR public lands, no matter your political party, no matter your stance on whatever other issue.
Furthermore, I have not seen a public statement from Cabelas(though they did have 2A sale), Scheels, Kifaru, Stone Glacier, Exo, Gritty bowmen, firstlite, sitka, Kuiu, etc... Now, perhaps I’m wrong, one of those companies did make a statement, and I didn’t see it. I still think it’s completely asinine to hold standard to BHA that you do not hold for the companies in essentially the same industry, which you give WAY more money too.
You people want an alliance with everything, its pure tribalism. Expecting a stance on every issue that wanders into your neighborhood, and then castrating someone for not taking a stance for whatever reason or not agreeing with your stance. That is identity politics, it's a poison in this country, rid yourself of it....immediately.
The truth is we, as hunters and anglers, are much better served to have organizations take stances on individual topics and build their mission around thay topic. It is the best way to efficiently and effectively carry out a mission. BHA is much better served, as are we, if they focus on Public Land Conservation. NRA is much better served, as are we, if they focus on the 2A. It would be an utter shiticane of a mess if we had every organization trying to dip their fingers in every politically charged topic in the country and then expect them to fulfill our desires on all of those topics effectively. Can you imagine an organization that supports everything you do, in the just the same manner that you do? If you can't, that's because one doesn't exist. Show me where there is an organization that takes a stance on every single topic and then show me one that takes the stance you want them to on every single one of those same topics.
This 2A issue has nothing to do with the BHA and expecting a response from them so you have more to argue you about on social media is a joke. If they choose to take stance, then that is their choice, you can support them for it, or boycott them for it... or you can just say, "ya know, I don't agree with their stance on that topic, but I like a lot of what they do...so let's agree to disagree on this one".
Let the NRA handle their business and support them if you so choose. If you hunt public lands, go buy a membership to BHA.. Want to do both? Then pay for both. It is that simple.
I’ve seen some people in this thread wondering what BHA’s stance is on 2A. I’ve also seen them ride Buzz (Wyoming board member?) trying to get an answer out of him. I think this raises a couple issues to address.
First of all, he does not speak for BHA National. As a member and supporter of BHA myself, I can tell you that the National Board does not e-mail all of their local chapter board members to inform them of BHA’s stance on every single politically charged topic that comes along. Their mission and focus is PUBLIC LAND conservation and Access conservation for Hunters, Anglers, and outdoorsman. They have NEVER wavered from that. I did not see BHA take a stance on transgenderism, the war in Iraq, the tax cut, etc.
Does this mean they are against all of those things? Or does it mean that it is not in their wheelhouse?
They support OUR PUBLIC LANDS and POLICY that supports and protects OUR public lands, no matter your political party, no matter your stance on whatever other issue.
Furthermore, I have not seen a public statement from Cabelas(though they did have 2A sale), Scheels, Kifaru, Stone Glacier, Exo, Gritty bowmen, firstlite, sitka, Kuiu, etc... Now, perhaps I’m wrong, one of those companies did make a statement, and I didn’t see it. I still think it’s completely asinine to hold standard to BHA that you do not hold for the companies in essentially the same industry, which you give WAY more money too.
You people want an alliance with everything, its pure tribalism. Expecting a stance on every issue that wanders into your neighborhood, and then castrating someone for not taking a stance for whatever reason or not agreeing with your stance. That is identity politics, it's a poison in this country, rid yourself of it....immediately.
The truth is we, as hunters and anglers, are much better served to have organizations take stances on individual topics and build their mission around thay topic. It is the best way to efficiently and effectively carry out a mission. BHA is much better served, as are we, if they focus on Public Land Conservation. NRA is much better served, as are we, if they focus on the 2A. It would be an utter shiticane of a mess if we had every organization trying to dip their fingers in every politically charged topic in the country and then expect them to fulfill our desires on all of those topics effectively. Can you imagine an organization that supports everything you do, in the just the same manner that you do? If you can't, that's because one doesn't exist. Show me where there is an organization that takes a stance on every single topic and then show me one that takes the stance you want them to on every single one of those same topics.
This 2A issue has nothing to do with the BHA and expecting a response from them so you have more to argue you about on social media is a joke. If they choose to take stance, then that is their choice, you can support them for it, or boycott them for it... or you can just say, "ya know, I don't agree with their stance on that topic, but I like a lot of what they do...so let's agree to disagree on this one".
Let the NRA handle their business and support them if you so choose. If you hunt public lands, go buy a membership to BHA.. Want to do both? Then pay for both. It is that simple.
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Brock maybe you missed the part where Buzz was attacking the NRA for not taking a stance on PLT. Then went on to claim the NRA worked against public lands. Maybe you also missed the part where he ran in a couple circles contradicted himself and provided zero proof of his claims, even when asked to do so. This doesn't necessarily apply to you, but as a member of WY BHA, Buzz does actually speak for me (unfortunately). As I said earlier the fact that BHA was even brought up in this thread is unfortunate but they have their own leadership attacking the NRA to blame for that.
brocksw
WKR
Can you direct me to the post where he states "BHA's position on the 2nd Amendment and REI is this....."?
Did you read when he said (I believe in multiple posts), "I'm speaking for myself"?
Can you point me to information where BHA national leadership is attacking the NRA?
I do not know Buzz, you, or any member of the Wyoming BHA personally. I don't believe I've ever had a conversation with any of them about anything. So I cannot comment specifically about them or their personal opinions.
Judging by this thread, all I can gather is that Buzz is a volunteer for the BHA and he does not speak for the BHA in this thread, nor does he lead me to believe that he is trying to. If he misquotes, incorrectly states, or comes to a opinion you disagree with, then that is between you and him and has nothing to do with the BHA as an organization or the issues that they support or are involved in.
Buzz's opinion, is just that, his opinion....you don't have to like it, I'm sure you have opinions some people don't like. However, I would not hold his opinion(because you disagree with it) against BHA, that's ridiculous.
I will also say, that the NRA has typically not shown support for public land conservation and have favored support (even though probably just by circumstance) for politicians who advocate for public land transfers and privatization. Does that mean they are against public lands or does it mean that their priority is the 2nd amendment and they support those who support it, and it just so happens to be that the people in the political world that support the 2nd amendment don't typically support public lands (hence, circumstance). I haven't done a lot of research about this specifically with the NRA, because I don't expect them too fight for public lands. Would it be nice if they did? Sure...more support can be good...but They fight for the 2nd amendment. I don't look to the NRA to know their opinion on taxes either.
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- Banned
- #232
orionthehunter1
WKR
he never answered. Buzz was specifically called out for being anti NRA and also he is a board member for Wyoming BHA and never did answer what BHA's position is on the 2nd amendment specifically ar15s
bruceleroy
WKR
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2015
- Messages
- 346
12 pages so Im not reading all that BUT... Im not sure why you thought that hippy ass company was a friend to the likes of us.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2016
- Messages
- 906
While you are correct that he's entitled to his opinion, when you represent something of any significance you don't get free reign to open your mouth without ramifications. When I worked as a police officer in a very small community for a small department we had standards we were expected to conduct ourselves by, even when off duty. I'm long removed from that profession, but if one of my current employees now came out and trash talked my company in his/her off time... I may let them go. Yes we have freedom of speech from legal prosecution but not from every day consequences
If he wants to publicly denounce the nra... fine. As a life member I respect that... when a bha board member comes out and does it, like it or not you're still representing the BHA... no matter how many times you say you're not. Making false accusations as a bha board member can destroy credibility
If he wants to publicly denounce the nra... fine. As a life member I respect that... when a bha board member comes out and does it, like it or not you're still representing the BHA... no matter how many times you say you're not. Making false accusations as a bha board member can destroy credibility
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So what REI did bothered me and I just wanted to use the last of my dividend and the 20% discount. But then I found the same item (flashlight) for less on Amazon and called to cancel. Well, they canceled the order and advised that because I used my dividend, they would refund it to me via check. That means you don't have to wait until July to cash your dividend.
The process to get your dividend early:
-Make an online order with your dividend.
-Call immediately to cancel.
-Receive dividend in the mail.
-Buy ammo/rifle/latest issue of Tactical Life Magazine.
dreamingbig
WKR
I just thought I would weigh in and suggest in that there is no way Amazon is better than REI when it comes to gun laws and gun control. We all have to do our best to shop hunting friendly.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Amazon still sells firearm accessories, not sure how they are worse then REI.
dreamingbig
WKR
For now... they are under pressure by the activists to make changes. I would be surprised if they stay out of the fight. I could be wrong.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wonder if Amazon ever did do that how they would handle their hunting shows on prime.
- Banned
- #240
JWP58
WKR
Of course he didnt. He is an anti gun coward. Plain and simple. The silence from bha is deafening. As long as they are anti gun and buzz is associated with them they wont get a penny from me.
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