Can you change your username??

[AK Troutbum]

I’m not trying to pick a fight... always good when a post starts with that! In regards to your line that more people have been killed in the name of Christ or in the name of religion, you are probably wrong with that... I would imagine the holocaust and WWI and WWII probably killed more people than all the aggregate religious battles over the millennia. That being said, you make a logical error when you equate the evil committed by men- who are sinful by nature- or the “church”- which is a man-made institution and therefore exceptionally fallible- with God, who is holy. The logical equivalent of that is like saying that American soldiers who committed horrible wartime atrocities while fighting under our flag, invalidates freedom, the American ideal, etc. You cannot hold God (or an ideal, in my example) subject to the failings of men. God is perfect and men are imperfect, and you cannot use the actions of be latter to invalidate the former.

Also, your last line is disrespectful at best. I have no problem facing reality. There is only one reality and what you and I believe as reality are mutually exclusive. One of us will be proved right when we die. I think of it this way: best case/worst case. For a Christian, the best case is pretty good- eternity in the presence of God. My worst case is that I’m worm food. For you, your best case is that you are worm food, and the worse case is significantly worse! I’m not here to convince you one way or the other. We both know forum posts aren’t going to change anyone’s world view. I just wanted to point out the logic problem with your statement and also let you know that insinuating people of faith are weak-minded/out of touch with reality/needing a crutch to cope with life/etc, is disrespectful to lots of people, including the majority of Americans. I’ll finish the same way I started- I’m not trying to pick a fight or be disrespectful, so if I came off that way at all, it was not intended. Thanks for reading and happy hunting.

"We both know forum posts aren’t going to change anyone’s world view", I couldn't agree with you more. "I imagine the holocaust and WWI and WWII probably killed more people than all the aggregate religious battles over the millennia". I am in no way questioning your imagination. As far as I'm concerned, anyone that can believe that there once was a man who walked on water (that wasn't frozen), turned water to wine in the blink of an eye, another man who built a boat to house two of every single living organism on earth, another who parted an ocean and people living to be hundreds and hundreds of years old, etc., etc., has a great imagination. I just never really understood how someone could believe these manmade/man written stories but yet so quickly dismisses all these other fairytales, ie., Santa Clause, as simply being fairytales. A man wrote 'Twas The Night Before Christmas, just like a man (or men), wrote The Bible. Anyway, just my opinion, which I'm sure doesn't make a bit of difference in the whole grand scheme of things, everyone's got an opinion. I'll just keep on trying to be the best father, husband, person that I can be and I assume that you will as well, which is probably the best we could all hope for. Good luck to you as well in the upcoming hunting season, take care.

 

[AK Troutbum]

As a devout atheist the most hilarious argument any religion has is that somehow their status upon death is elevated in respect to others who die and have led exemplary lives. The simple audacity of that thought process is humorous at best, arrogant and ridiculous would be closer to my line of thinking though. With that mindset simple geography based on the location a person was born and lived would then dictate a persons status in the afterlife. There is no doubt the fear of eternal damnation has turned a few people off of being despicable humans during their life, I however find that person to be completely insincere and hypocritical. how about do the right thing because it is the right thing to do? Why does it take fear of a crappy afterlife to convince anyone to not be a prick? I elect to do good to people who deserve to be treated well, follow the laws as I encounter them and try and be nice. It has worked well for me and I will be content with having done it right in this life. I never needed a passage in a book to come up with that thought process.
So all that being said. Good for you H4C75.... I am guessing you will find being good for goodness sake far more rewarding than the selfish and insincere idea of being good for your own betterment.

Very well written indeed. Oh, and when you get a moment, please enjoy a nice cold Sierra Nevada Torpedo for me (the best damn beer on God's green earth ).

 

[TheCougar]

Gents, a forum isn’t going to change anyone’s mind. The best anyone can hope is an open mind and civil conversation. If anyone is ever in the Fort Worth area and wants to talk theology, hunting, logic, deep thoughts like “what is truth?” And “how can turkeys be so stupid, yet still outsmart me?”, my garage door is open and the beer is cold. Cheers.

 

[Tod osier]

Welcome.

When I read that you wanted to change your name AND saw your username, I thought... I wonder if he became an atheist??? Good intuition on my part today - I should pick some units to apply to...

 

[Huntindog45]

Very well written indeed. Oh, and when you get a moment, please enjoy a nice cold Sierra Nevada Torpedo for me (the best damn beer on God's green earth ).

SN has a new one out called Hazy Little Thing IPA. I highly suggest you find a six pack. comes in cans too so it is great for your outdoor adventures..

 

[AK Troutbum]

SN has a new one out called Hazy Little Thing IPA. I highly suggest you find a six pack. comes in cans too so it is great for your outdoor adventures..

Funny you mentioned that. The last beer I drank was on St. Patty's day and it was a Hazy Little Thing. A very good IPA indeed.

 

[outdoor_matt]

As a devout atheist the most hilarious argument any religion has is that somehow their status upon death is elevated in respect to others who die and have led exemplary lives. The simple audacity of that thought process is humorous at best, arrogant and ridiculous would be closer to my line of thinking though. With that mindset simple geography based on the location a person was born and lived would then dictate a persons status in the afterlife. There is no doubt the fear of eternal damnation has turned a few people off of being despicable humans during their life, I however find that person to be completely insincere and hypocritical. how about do the right thing because it is the right thing to do? Why does it take fear of a crappy afterlife to convince anyone to not be a prick? I elect to do good to people who deserve to be treated well, follow the laws as I encounter them and try and be nice. It has worked well for me and I will be content with having done it right in this life. I never needed a passage in a book to come up with that thought process.
So all that being said. Good for you H4C75.... I am guessing you will find being good for goodness sake far more rewarding than the selfish and insincere idea of being good for your own betterment.

As a devout Christian, I too laugh at anyone that thinks their good works will merit any kind of favour before a holy and perfect God. The fact that some people even consider themselves remotely good, Christian or not, is funny indeed, when measured against perfection.

And to the point about "how about do the right thing because it is the right thing to do" becomes a grey line, when no standard of good exists. How do you define either good or evil apart from a standard. No, my friend, man's definition of this changes all the time, and it is why men sink into lawlessness.

As to the last point, we Christians are anything but good for goodness sake. We have been bought at a price, and so we respond in obedience. The idea of being good for our own betterment is not even in the Christian realm.

It's a great discussion, and worth going into the depths on.
I appreciate the comment.
There are many comments I'd love to find time to respond to.

 

[outdoor_matt]

Gents, a forum isn’t going to change anyone’s mind. The best anyone can hope is an open mind and civil conversation. If anyone is ever in the Fort Worth area and wants to talk theology, hunting, logic, deep thoughts like “what is truth?” And “how can turkeys be so stupid, yet still outsmart me?”, my garage door is open and the beer is cold. Cheers.

But I do like this approach better! Even though a conversation is still worth having online, an in-person discussion is all the better. Good offer!!

 

[5MilesBack]

There is no doubt the fear of eternal damnation has turned a few people off of being despicable humans during their life, I however find that person to be completely insincere and hypocritical. how about do the right thing because it is the right thing to do? Why does it take fear of a crappy afterlife to convince anyone to not be a prick?

Salvation has nothing to do with whether you're a real prick or not.......thank God, because I'd be out.

However, it has everything to do with the fact that we are all sinners.....every last one of us. But God provided a way so that the penalty for our sins was paid for.....perfectly, and permanently. That way is His Son Jesus Christ that paid it all on the cross for everyone. It is a free gift, all you have to do is accept it.

I don't know anyone that if they were standing before the judge, found guilty, and sentenced to death.....would reject someone else coming in and working out a deal with the judge to take their place in that death sentence. That's exactly what people are doing when they reject Jesus........."No thanks, I'll just go ahead and take my own death sentence because I don't believe you died to pay the penalty for my sins". And that's the bottom line........God gives you a choice to reject His Son, and seals your fate for eternity.

I'd rather be a saved prick than a condemned person that lived a so-called "good" life.

 

[molliesmaster]

I grew up in a christian home, went to a christian church and attended a christian school through my high school graduation. In all that time I never found an absolute answer. I don't know which religion, or lack of, is correct. It bothers me when people that think they have the secret sauce talk down to others though.

I wouldn't dare try to talk anyone out of or into anything. Because what if I'm wrong? As long as you aren't hurting anybody, go for it.

 

[Gr8bawana]

No sweat I am in no rush, just parted ways with my faith and no longer want to seem hypocritical with a username such as mine when I am an Atheist now.
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Good for you! I am also an Atheist. After being raised by a religious mother and a non-religious father in the Catholic Church I came to realize all churches are a farce. There are so many people out there that profess to be religious and belong to a church and faith of some kind. Yet they don't actually live by their faith. I see so much hypocrisy in so called godly people.

 

[Outhunting]

Talk about hijacking a thread! LOL! This one might go a distance. I think someone mentioned a dedicated thread if there already isn't one somewhere on here. Agnostic myself, I just get a kick out of the subtle hints of eternal damnation that any of my religious friends and folks drop if I don't hurry and get saved. When my friends and I get in to discussions, It seems that these friend are just afraid of death and this belief of something grander is what they need to face it when it comes.

 

[outdoor_matt]

Good for you! I am also an Atheist. After being raised by a religious mother and a non-religious father in the Catholic Church I came to realize all churches are a farce. There are so many people out there that profess to be religious and belong to a church and faith of some kind. Yet they don't actually live by their faith. I see so much hypocrisy in so called godly people.

Although there is indeed much hypocrisy in churches, does that negate the faith of those that have been truly saved? It's a stretch to say all churches are a farce because some hypocrites don't live as they say. These hypocrites do indeed create a poor name for Christ (and I certainly admit I am hypocritical at times), but doesn't a fake version of something (faith) indicate there is something genuine to copy?

 

[Loco4dux]

Just make sure to update us of your new username so I can continue to avoid the overpriced classified ads

 

[idahohikker]

I really like going to church and all but OP if you feel like you need to go a different route for now or forever, do what's best for you. If you'd like to have a sincere and kind discussion about faith and doubts sometime, feel free to PM me. I think group discussions are kind of a difficult medium for this discussion as others have mentioned. That said, only on Rokslide (where people seem genuinely like nice guys and there's a respectful culture) would this not devolve into a complete internet mess.

 

[woods89]

"We both know forum posts aren’t going to change anyone’s world view", I couldn't agree with you more. "I imagine the holocaust and WWI and WWII probably killed more people than all the aggregate religious battles over the millennia". I am in no way questioning your imagination. As far as I'm concerned, anyone that can believe that there once was a man who walked on water (that wasn't frozen), turned water to wine in the blink of an eye, another man who built a boat to house two of every single living organism on earth, another who parted an ocean and people living to be hundreds and hundreds of years old, etc., etc., has a great imagination. I just never really understood how someone could believe these manmade/man written stories but yet so quickly dismisses all these other fairytales, ie., Santa Clause, as simply being fairytales. A man wrote 'Twas The Night Before Christmas, just like a man (or men), wrote The Bible. Anyway, just my opinion, which I'm sure doesn't make a bit of difference in the whole grand scheme of things, everyone's got an opinion. I'll just keep on trying to be the best father, husband, person that I can be and I assume that you will as well, which is probably the best we could all hope for. Good luck to you as well in the upcoming hunting season, take care.

And I would argue that anyone who can hike the Rockies, see an infinitely complex and functional natural system, and not believe that somewhere, somehow, some being had a hand in this, also has a great imagination.

No disrespect intended at all, but my time in nature only makes it easier to believe.

 

[juan trueno]

So- I take it you guys aren’t religiously purifying your water- so what do you use- pump? Pills? Pen?




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[SUMMIT75]

....and username changed!!!


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[dotman]

I have to agree no views will be changed on an Internet forum, I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins and have zero questions or doubts about it and I’m definitely a complete ahole at times and far from perfect. But all that said this thread has been way to civil so let this Christian liven up the place and just say......




“Kuiu” is horrible gear now we’ll see the crazy posts and get the thread locked down!

 

[elkguide]

Rokslide is such a wonderful place that even a discussion of religion seems to stay quite civil.
Thank you all.