Watching the half ton diesel trucks.

[AustinL911]

Do any of these newer diesel trucks come in a manual? There is no way I am ever buying an automatic, but wouldn't mind a Tundra diesel with a manual. I saw the new mpg ratings on the Ford diesel.......30hwy, 25 city. Wonder what speed that was on the highway? I'm rarely ever going under 80 on the highway.

It's a trap...

Ford says it has received official EPA fuel economy numbers for the new 2018 Ford F-150 3.0-liter Power Stroke diesel, and the figures are good if you get the 4x2. But if you want power to all four wheels and you’re not a fleet customer, the numbers are much, much lower.

Hop over to Ford’s press release, and you’ll read that “The 2018 Ford F-150’s first 3.0-liter Power Stroke diesel engine officially boasts EPA-estimated ratings of 30 mpg highway, 22 mpg city and 25 mpg combined,” and that that those EPA numbers are the highest of any full-size truck.

But a Ford representative told me over the phone that those MPG figures—which won’t be on the EPA’s official website until May—only apply to 4x2 models, and the that the four-wheel drive version of this same truck scores an EPA rating of 25 MPG highway, 22 MPG combined and 20 MPG city.

That’s five MPG lower on the highway just for checking the “4x4" box.

Looking at other diesel vehicles like the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel, Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel, Chevrolet Equinox diesel and Chevrolet Colorado diesel for reference—and also looking at gas versions of the F-150—the difference in highway fuel economy between 4x2 and 4x4 versions of the same truck is usually around one and two MPG. I can’t say I’ve ever seen a gap as high as five.

I reached out to Ford to learn more, and a company representative told me that it comes down to how the vehicles are configured. The 4x2 is a SuperCrew with a tall 3.31 fuel economy-oriented final drive ratio and all-season tires on 20-inch wheels. The 4x4 is also a SuperCrew, but it gets all-terrain tires on 20-inch wheels, a towing-oriented 3.55 final drive ratio, and a Torque on Demand transfer case.

The 4x4's all-terrains likely add rolling resistance, and the shorter final drive ratio likely brings the engine to a less efficient operating point during highway cruising.

The four-wheel drive system, with its added weight, increased drivetrain losses and perhaps more protruding hardware (which could affect aerodynamics) surely also contributes to the lower fuel economy. The Torque on Demand system is automatic, which I suppose could sap a bit more power than a driver-operated system (even though modern full-time four-wheel drive systems are fairly efficient).

It’s worth mentioning that Ford says its fleet-only XL and XLT 4x4 models—which come with shift-on-the-fly transfer cases—score a decent 28 MPG highway, 24 combined, 21 city. Those trucks, like the retail 4x4s trims, come with all-terrain tires, though unlike the retail trucks they have the taller 3.31 axle ratio.

But if you’re not a fleet customer, the highest fuel economy you’ll get in the 4x4 Ford F-150 3.0-liter Power Stroke diesel is 25 MPG, and if you’re okay with only two-wheel drive, you can buy a truck rated as high as 30 MPG highway.

I must say I’m surprised that, according to Ford, this delta comes down to just tires, final drive ratio, drivetrain efficiency and weight of that drivetrain. Other automakers offer trucks with the same motors but with different final drive ratios, different tires and different drivetrain options, and yet I’ve never seen such a huge delta in EPA estimated highway fuel economy between variants of the same truck, especially without significant differences in aerodynamic treatments.

A Ford representative told me he’s going to send me a statement on the topic, so hopefully we’ll learn more soon.

For the life of me, I can't get the link to post.

 

[Blockcaver]

I ordered my 2015 Ford Supercab XLT 5.0 liter V-8 4x4 with 3.31 gears. I drive a lot on the highway and wanted the economy gearing and haven't been disappointed. None were available on the lot with that gearing but it was available via order. With Michelin 18" LTX M&S tires it handles very well, is super quiet and does fine in the snow and ice.

I'd consider the small Powerstroke for my next 1/2 ton truck in a few years if the engine pans out. I would be leery to buy one right away though!

 

[timekiller13]

If Toyota would bring a diesel tundra to the US, I would be all in. Hell, I wish Toyota would make a 3/4 ton or 1 ton diesel, that would be badass.

 

[Scoony]

I was just in Panama and they have the Toyota Hilux and it looked sharp. I rented a Fortunner (similar to a Four runner). I think it had a 4 cyl diesel and it was ran surprisingly strong even with 7 folks in the car. Funny that diesel is cheaper then gas down there.

 

[Blockcaver]

Diesel is $.07/liter CA (about $0.21/gal...US $ and gal) cheaper around home in BC right now than regular. Same Ultra-low sulfur as the US as far as I can tell. Not sure why the US diesel prices are always higher than regular and Canadian (BC) prices are almost always less? Lots of 1 ton diesels up here as a result. Since we have logging roads designed for logging trucks (width and turns) rather than narrow old mining roads like Colorado its not a major drawback to have a big truck for recreating. I use my F350 Powerstroke more than my F150 in the fall.

 

[Trial153]

Some of them decked out Toyota Hilux look bad ass all decked out. Too bad that isn’t in our market. I could see that as my first diesel truck.

 

[dotman]

If Toyota would bring a diesel tundra to the US, I would be all in. Hell, I wish Toyota would make a 3/4 ton or 1 ton diesel, that would be badass.

They were going to put the same Cummins in the Tundra that Nissan did but backed away after the VW scandal and now I believe they have zero plans for a diesel.

 

[5MilesBack]

They were going to put the same Cummins in the Tundra that Nissan did but backed away after the VW scandal and now I believe they have zero plans for a diesel.

Yep.......companies coming out with great mileage diesels, but the EPA can't allow that. Got to shut them down. I remember when my Powerstroke got 22mpg consistently on the highway doing 80+ before ULSD. Now with the ULSD 18mpg is pretty much tops.

Back in 2004 we rented a Renault wagon diesel in Portugal for a week. It got 47mpg during that week. I've always wondered why our government can't get on board with high mpg vehicles.

 

[justin davis]

The Toyota hilux is awesome. They get 40 mpg. But they aren’t allowed in the US. Wonder why? Oh because big oil won’t allow it. They don’t want a diesel that is that efficient.

 

[5MilesBack]

The Toyota hilux is awesome. They get 40 mpg. But they aren’t allowed in the US. Wonder why? Oh because big oil won’t allow it. They don’t want a diesel that is that efficient.

The thing is.......we have this huge push these days for electric and other renewable resource vehicles......to the point where some Wall Street gurus are even avoiding petroleum companies because they think petroleum will be obsolete eventually.

With that kind of mentality out there, the oil companies should be embracing any and all comers to the gas and diesel game.......regardless of how efficient they are.

 

[black dawg]

Yep.......companies coming out with great mileage diesels, but the EPA can't allow that. Got to shut them down. I remember when my Powerstroke got 22mpg consistently on the highway doing 80+ before ULSD. Now with the ULSD 18mpg is pretty much tops.

Back in 2004 we rented a Renault wagon diesel in Portugal for a week. It got 47mpg during that week. I've always wondered why our government can't get on board with high mpg vehicles.

It would be interesting to see on paper, if all these reductions in diesel emissions are actually a reduction when quite a bit more fuel is consumed as a side effect.

 

[DangerRanger]

It would be interesting to see on paper, if all these reductions in diesel emissions are actually a reduction when quite a bit more fuel is consumed as a side effect.

From what I saw when I looked before it was still an overall reduction even with more fuel used.

I do believe had they pushed for bio and combustion technology vs more band aid fix technology we would have achieved great mpg and reduced emission per fuel volume.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Matt W.]

The Toyota hilux is awesome. They get 40 mpg. But they aren’t allowed in the US. Wonder why? Oh because big oil won’t allow it. They don’t want a diesel that is that efficient.

According to this site its the government not the oil companies.... They (oil companies) control far less than they want to or people think they do.

I would have thought it was emissions issues, rather than a "chicken tax" if I had to guess...

Why can't I own a Toyota Hilux in America? - Quora
Quote:
The Hilux is built in Japan, and, thanks to a rather stupid rule known as the Chicken tax , there is a 25% duty on imported pickup trucks in the US. This is why other Far East-built trucks (Mitsubishi L200/Triton, Mazda BT-50, etc), as well as European options like the VW Amarok aren't available in the US either.

In the US, Toyota manufactures the Tacoma, which is mechanically similar to the Hilux, but with different styling and engines. They also manufacture the Tundra, a full-size alternative to the likes of the Ford F-150 and Chevy Silverado. Both of these are made in the US to get around the chicken tax.

 

[dotman]

According to this site its the government not the oil companies.... They (oil companies) control far less than they want to or people think they do.

I would have thought it was emissions issues, rather than a "chicken tax" if I had to guess...

Why can't I own a Toyota Hilux in America? - Quora
Quote:
The Hilux is built in Japan, and, thanks to a rather stupid rule known as the Chicken tax , there is a 25% duty on imported pickup trucks in the US. This is why other Far East-built trucks (Mitsubishi L200/Triton, Mazda BT-50, etc), as well as European options like the VW Amarok aren't available in the US either.

In the US, Toyota manufactures the Tacoma, which is mechanically similar to the Hilux, but with different styling and engines. They also manufacture the Tundra, a full-size alternative to the likes of the Ford F-150 and Chevy Silverado. Both of these are made in the US to get around the chicken tax.

Yup and Toyota doesn’t want to spend the money on the emissions crap the EPA requires of diesels, outside of the US and Canada diesel isn’t hamstrung by an environment agency.

 

[Ray]

Toyota diesels in the auto trade news...as of January there are two toyota diesels at the EPA testing facility. A 4 banger and a V6. Toyota marketing is planning on having a diesel Tacoma in the US by 2019. They might have a diesel in late 2018 as an option. There will be a CA compliant version as well with exhaust treatment.

Of course there is the Cummings R2.8 turbo diesel crate motor as well. Requires a lot of adapter machining or replace your entire drive line.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I have a 2014 Ecodiesel and it had some growing pains. I can get 25 MPG IF I keep it at 65 MPH on the HWY. IF I run at 80 it gets around 18-19

Then I changed the computer out for a green diesel computer. Now I can get 28-30 around 65 and 23-24 around 80

I also deleted the DEF. With that and the new computer, it also has quite a bit more pep.

 

[nrh6.7]

I have a 2014 Ecodiesel and it had some growing pains. I can get 25 MPG IF I keep it at 65 MPH on the HWY. IF I run at 80 it gets around 18-19

Then I changed the computer out for a green diesel computer. Now I can get 28-30 around 65 and 23-24 around 80

I also deleted the DEF. With that and the new computer, it also has quite a bit more pep.

I'd be interested in knowing more about the new puter you installed. I have a diesel that I want to do a delete on, but haven't gotten serious yet. Did you have a shop do it for you, or diy?

 

[5MilesBack]

It would be interesting to see on paper, if all these reductions in diesel emissions are actually a reduction when quite a bit more fuel is consumed as a side effect.

Ya, I laugh about all the ethanol out there in the gas. Not sure what that was supposed to do, but my Toyota goes from 20mpg on the highway to 15mpg with the ethanol fuel, and from 16-17mpg in town to 13mpg. That's a 25% reduction in fuel economy on the highway with ethanol, or a 33% increase in fuel economy going from ethanol gas to ethanol free gas. That's ridiculous!

Recently a station opened up here that has "ethanol free" gas as an option. I was skeptical at first because it costs more, but every tank that I've filled with it has gotten 20 on the highway and 16-17 in town, which is what the truck was rated at brand new. And the ethanol free gas is only about 15-20 cents more a gallon.....well worth it.

 

[5MilesBack]

I would have thought it was emissions issues, rather than a "chicken tax" if I had to guess...

Why can't I own a Toyota Hilux in America? - Quora
Quote:
The Hilux is built in Japan, and, thanks to a rather stupid rule known as the Chicken tax , there is a 25% duty on imported pickup trucks in the US. This is why other Far East-built trucks (Mitsubishi L200/Triton, Mazda BT-50, etc), as well as European options like the VW Amarok aren't available in the US either.

In the US, Toyota manufactures the Tacoma, which is mechanically similar to the Hilux, but with different styling and engines. They also manufacture the Tundra, a full-size alternative to the likes of the Ford F-150 and Chevy Silverado. Both of these are made in the US to get around the chicken tax.

I wonder how long that tariff has been around. These days is the perfect timing to negotiate that away with all the tariff talks. My 1989 Toyota 4x4 was made in Japan. They certainly didn't have that tariff back then. I'd bet that they'd still sell here even with the 25% tariff.

But I would love a Toyota Hi-Lux. I drove one in Iceland and had a diesel Landcruiser 100 as well while we were stationed there. Great vehicles.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I'd be interested in knowing more about the new puter you installed. I have a diesel that I want to do a delete on, but haven't gotten serious yet. Did you have a shop do it for you, or diy?

You can just add the DEF delete for $50 to the computer upgrade. Its DIY, just swap computers.

Ram - GDE - Ram 1500 EcoDiesel Hot Tune -